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Author Topic: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse  (Read 10562 times)

Offline Rumpa

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When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« on: November 22, 2014, 09:51:52 AM »
Hi guys.

It's just query When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse.

Thank you.

Offline Illori

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2014, 10:29:06 AM »
when we will be accepting mods on the mod site for 2.1.

Offline Rumpa

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2014, 10:40:56 AM »
when we will be accepting mods on the mod site for 2.1.
Hope it will be very soon.

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2014, 02:46:40 PM »
Considering the changes I would not be encouraging modders to be touching SMF 2.1 for a while anyway simply because of the effort required to update mods properly, only to have it changed again by the next beta.

I learned this the hard way with maintaining mods through 2.0 RC2, RC3, RC4, RC5 and final. Not for nothing that I largely stopped writing mods after that for a long, long time.
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Offline Kindred

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2014, 05:16:28 PM »
I can state that it will NOT be "very soon".
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Offline Antes

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2014, 05:28:35 PM »


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Offline Night09

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2014, 05:44:21 PM »
If Mods were made just using the hooks wouldnt most things be a bit more resilient than template edits? Im just thinking that waiting what could be a long time to do any mod work isnt a good choice. Some may choose to wait and others might like to dabble a bit.

If it was the case then maintenance of mods after an update should be minimal. Just thoughts on it.

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2014, 05:46:01 PM »
To a point, sure, but don't forget the templates are quite a bit different too.
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Offline Night09

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2014, 05:51:42 PM »
To a point, sure, but don't forget the templates are quite a bit different too.

True bit if anyone wanting to make or upgrade mods done it the right way first time round then eventually all 2.1 mods would be less trouble to maintain or make changes in future. Also shouldnt it reduce mod clash with bad edits killing common code points in templates leading to millions of how do I edit this error?

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2014, 05:52:53 PM »
Yes it should reduce the hassle, if mod authors actually use the facilities on offer. Already some of the facilities there are get misused quite drastically.
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Offline Night09

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2014, 06:04:16 PM »
If a mod passes admin approval they could be graded A or B class mods based on following guidelines or just complying for safety ect.

Maybe an addition to the Mod evaluation page used here for admin could include an option for grade. Then users would know if a mod is likely to cause an issue later down the line rather than play detective looking for the offending piece of code.

A = Uses all requisites of SMF integrating function or feature to SMF
B = Meets requirements for SMF but does not follow strict Mod code guidelines

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2014, 06:42:31 PM »
All the mods on the site did, at least at first time, meet the guidelines.

Two problems occur: there are mods that met the old guidelines but not the newer ones, and there are mods that meet even the newer guidelines but it never occurs to people that things might be possible.

For example, at least two of the things in my gallery are in the realms of 'I don't think that's possible with hooks'. Like doing things where hooks don't even exist. So I sort of make use of other hooks. Not ideal, no, but does the job. Fairly sure I wouldn't quite pass the 'strict code guidelines' in that respect ;D
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Offline Night09

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2014, 06:53:37 PM »
Maybe on parts where hooks dont exist then your technically not breaking the code rules. Where they would be broken is if you make changes that can be done with an inbuilt hook function. I agree some mods would need edits outside the control of the code in the templates but in those cases as long as its safe it should pass for A as theres no inbuilt alternative.

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2014, 06:57:33 PM »
Which is precisely where the definition falls flat.

Who says whether it can be done by an inbuilt hook function or not? Because we play by *that* rule, almost any mod gets invalidated since you'd be surprised what can be done with sufficient ingenuity in *that* department ;D
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Offline Night09

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2014, 07:10:02 PM »
Yeah it gets sticky I know..:P

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2014, 07:16:17 PM »
Basically, never use me as the benchmark of what is sane or appropriate because I am neither sane nor appropriate. I do the crazy things no-one else does... solely because I *can*.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline Night09

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2014, 07:35:05 PM »
Basically, never use me as the benchmark of what is sane or appropriate because I am neither sane nor appropriate. I do the crazy things no-one else does... solely because I *can*.

Luckily most of us dont fall into the insane code category but really some basic compliance would be good, not saying it will happen mind. ;)

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2014, 07:37:34 PM »
Therein lies the challenge again: what point is 'basic code compliance' when the scale runs from 'can be done with hooks with even basic knowledge' to 'can only be done with hooks if you're completely insane' through to 'can be done with hooks only if you happen to be Arantor, Suki, Dragooon etc.'
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Offline margarett

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2014, 07:45:22 PM »
I'll reply to that, as I've been involved in MOD approval:
Quote
'basic code compliance'
is the usual approval method. Nothing unusual here

Quote
'can only be done with hooks if you're completely insane'
Not common and usually dealt with help from our developers.

Quote
can be done with hooks only if you happen to be Arantor, Suki, Dragooon
Is probably approved "directly", after a minimum code and functionality check.

Easy, right? ;)
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Offline live627

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2014, 07:48:59 PM »
Basically, never use me as the benchmark of what is sane or appropriate because I am neither sane nor appropriate. I do the crazy things no-one else does... solely because I *can*.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" (multiple authors)
Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.
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Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2014, 07:51:05 PM »
;D (I too have done mod approvals :P)

It is a *very* good thing my gallery is not being reviewed by the SMF cust team. It would likely be very scary. Between my code and the getID3 library I added, there are 158 PHP files, 45634 lines of code (not count 6478 lines of comments or 7715 blank lines)... good luck reviewing THAT :P

Fools rush in... hell yes >:D
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Offline Night09

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2014, 07:53:31 PM »
;D (I too have done mod approvals :P)

It is a *very* good thing my gallery is not being reviewed by the SMF cust team. It would likely be very scary. Between my code and the getID3 library I added, there are 158 PHP files, 45634 lines of code (not count 6478 lines of comments or 7715 blank lines)... good luck reviewing THAT :P

Fools rush in... hell yes >:D

Then your perfectly qualified to check those bigger mod submissions ;)

Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2014, 08:01:49 PM »
And have been known to check even some of the very scary mod submissions. Have even been known to review paid mods with... interesting... reactions.
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Offline Rumpa

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2014, 11:19:26 PM »
Mods maker at least wait until RC not release before upgrading their mods. And most of mods useless with this beta.
This version of SMF huge difference in its templates.


Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2014, 05:55:43 AM »
You have clearly never been a mod maker going through this process before. I did this last time round. Trust me, I do actually know what I am talking about here.
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Offline Antes

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2014, 05:58:05 AM »
There won't be a new theme in RC period... Most of the beta modifications probably work perfectly with RC versions and gold.


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Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2014, 06:01:01 AM »
That wasn't even what I was talking about. I remember the whole fandango of divs/h3/h4, titlebg, catbg ec changing every single RC. I had to change mods every single RC to cope with this.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline Antes

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2014, 06:26:59 AM »
That wasn't even what I was talking about. I remember the whole fandango of divs/h3/h4, titlebg, catbg ec changing every single RC. I had to change mods every single RC to cope with this.

which is also not gonna happen because cat_bar / title_bar / sub_bar / button / roundframe / windowbg/2 / half_content are really good established CSS classes in SMF 2.1.


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Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2014, 06:48:11 AM »
I was told the same after RC2.
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Offline live627

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2014, 08:44:42 PM »
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?action=profile;u=183330

^^ doesn't indicate a battle-hardened mod veteran. Do you have any history in writing mods that date back to 2011?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:58:12 PM by live627 »
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Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2014, 08:47:04 PM »
Who, me? ;)
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline live627

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2014, 08:59:52 PM »
No, Antes.

* live627 goes to fix the link
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Offline Arantor

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Re: When we see 2.1 beta 1 in package parse
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2014, 09:02:02 PM »
Ahhhh, $context is a wonderful thing ;D

I am genuinely curious to see how much of my gallery breaks when I finally brave trying it on 2.1... beyond the templates there is a *lot* of shenanigans that I expect to see get broken.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.