SMF developing or stagnating (was Wordpress/SMF bridge)

[Spr1te]

  Thing is if you keep your heads in the sand SMF will never truly be competitive with what's out there.

The message I'm getting is there's a licencing issue that's @ the bottom of all this as there are no current bridges to any sites on offer. If that's the case come out and say it don't keep peddling the notion anything WP can do SMF can do unless you are in fact able to deliver.

To this point I have yet to see anything in SMF's armoury that remotely compares with what's avail in WP. - the plethora of themes and plugins, the update system for instance is far more superior and user friendly to what SMF have to offer. Admittedly SMF forum software is more advanced but is unfortunately out of date, looks it and is in dire need of fresh vision if it is to survive.

Both Kindred and Arantor have provided readers examples of what they believe can be accomplished by way of integration WP/SMF software but these seriously look out dated!

This is what people are on the look out for when they contemplate starting up a site....currency, aesthetics and functionality they all go hand in hand and in that order.

With respect you have two senior people, very capable in every way but being in a position of command without true organisational structure, ideas on web design etc can become clouded and without proper checks and balances the potential of a bottleneck or stopper to any future development SMF starts to emerge. No fault of the parties mentioned, simply stating what is! More emphasis should be placed on feedback or user demand.

SMF's sorely needs a professional web designer on the team. Someone who can come up with new concepts in aesthetics and is able to keep SMF @ the forefront of forum software  something that prospective users are able to be proud of. > Yahoo Microsoft etc. have the right idea, get your developer team to code around the basic concept. Then and only then will SMF be in a position to put its flag in the ground and boast that it's the leading forum software around.

An example of what has already been done with WP can be seen in the following link. > Its why people gravitate toward WP for inspiration, hence the constant requests for bridges between WP and SMF.

http://sketchthemes.com/samples/advertica-creative-demo/

SMF can bypass its lagging popularity and come up with something that truly sets itself apart in every sense of the word. Design, functionality, coding > With only minor restructuring to include contract services of an outsider. Yes we all know SMF is a not for profit org but where there's will there IS a way!

[Kindred]

Spr1te,

Sorry, but I disagree with almost everything that you said...

and that site that you pointed to... no offense meant, but I hate it.

[margarett]

These are perfectly valid points of view, some of them incompatible with our structure (eg: have a professional webdesigner), all of which are YOUR points of view
For several reasons, on top of which everything here is done by volunteers, that vision is not shared here.

The license is not an issue anymore, not after 2.0 final, because BSD is GPL-compatible. There is a recent bridge showing up, AFAIK no one here used it successfully, but I seriously advise everyone interested in bridging SMF/WP to try it

* margarett looks for the links

edit: here they are
https://github.com/xchwarze/WP2SMFBridge --> Bridge WP into SMF
https://github.com/xchwarze/SMF2WPBridge --> Bridge SMF into WP

[Kindred]

However, I still disagree with the concept that WordPress should be bridged...   

Anything that can be done in WP can be done (IMO, better and better coded) in SMF.

[margarett]

Sorry, Kindred, even I (who *never* used WP), disagree with you.
Not that what you say isn't true. Of course it is.

But there's this (yes, statistics are what they are)
https://managewp.com/14-surprising-statistics-about-wordpress-usage

2. 74.6 Million Sites Depend on WordPress

Yep, you read that right. 74,652,825 sites out there are depending on good ol' WordPress. That's one site per person in Turkey.

[Kindred]

see though... I do use wordpress on several sites, as noted above.

it is TERRIBLY CODED...   I mean, utterly TERRIBLE in coding practices and optimization...

I would never run it on a site with anything else also running...


and those numbers just show how silly people get fooled by "well, it's popular, so it must be good"

[margarett]

Popular should be the key word

And for the random user, terribly coded is the least of their concerns. Popular, on the other hand...

[Spr1te]

Spr1te,

Sorry, but I disagree with almost everything that you said...

and that site that you pointed to... no offense meant, but I hate it.

> And therein lies the problem back where we started. Instead of listening and doing something about it head in the sand again. And I'm not intending to be rude but its what is. I appreciate your an individual as am I but what I say doesn't count and that's where you failed the true test....user demand.

First lesson in sales...never bag the opposition second lesson take on board criticism's and try to improve things.

[Kindred]

nope... I listened to you. My head is not in the sand.
I just happen to disagree with your statements and your conclusions.

First lesson in project management: Take what is requested, analyze it and the determine what is worth putting effort into...
second lesson: The customer is not always right.
third lesson: When you have a backlog of tasks and requests, you work on the ones that are necessary, interesting, and useful (in that order)

[Spr1te]

These are perfectly valid points of view, some of them incompatible with our structure (eg: have a professional webdesigner), all of which are YOUR points of view
For several reasons, on top of which everything here is done by volunteers, that vision is not shared here.

The license is not an issue anymore, not after 2.0 final, because BSD is GPL-compatible. There is a recent bridge showing up, AFAIK no one here used it successfully, but I seriously advise everyone interested in bridging SMF/WP to try it

* margarett looks for the links

edit: here they are
https://github.com/xchwarze/WP2SMFBridge --> Bridge WP into SMF
https://github.com/xchwarze/SMF2WPBridge --> Bridge SMF into WP

Not have a professional > engage the services of one on a periodic basis.

As I said I'm aware things within the SMF community are done voluntarily.

As for vision not being shared...that's where the services of an outsider can be of benefit. Clears the air so to speak.

Re the bridge, tried both and was apprehensive about the latter. Operated differently to the one J Gallow?  wrote for SMF a ways back and was wary about security so I disposed of it.

[Spr1te]

However, I still disagree with the concept that WordPress should be bridged...   

Anything that can be done in WP can be done (IMO, better and better coded) in SMF.

So why isn't it? Everything's outdated...Why aren't you working toward rectifying the issue? >>>> Outgun WP

[margarett]

I don't know that other bridge you're mentioning.

I did check this SMF->WP bridge (as it is currently pending approval for our modsite). Now that you mention it, I have another test to do to it

[Spr1te]

see though... I do use wordpress on several sites, as noted above.

it is TERRIBLY CODED...   I mean, utterly TERRIBLE in coding practices and optimization...

I would never run it on a site with anything else also running...


and those numbers just show how silly people get fooled by "well, it's popular, so it must be good"

Optimisations an issue however I see someone's head diving into the sand again. I quoted Microsoft and Yahoo for good reason because they are the MOST popular, they have the best developers etc etc. You can choose to ignore basic facts or do something about it? >>>User feedback see.

[Spr1te]

Popular should be the key word

And for the random user, terribly coded is the least of their concerns. Popular, on the other hand...

Now here's someone that shows promise.

[Spr1te]

nope... I listened to you. My head is not in the sand.
I just happen to disagree with your statements and your conclusions.

First lesson in project management: Take what is requested, analyze it and the determine what is worth putting effort into...
second lesson: The customer is not always right.
third lesson: When you have a backlog of tasks and requests, you work on the ones that are necessary, interesting, and useful (in that order)

Ha hahah Your ghoood...Make for a useful bottleneck...joking of course. Just intent in thrashing this out is all. Forget Project Management and focus on what's important, user demand as without it you have a Mercedes that cant be sold!

[Kindred]

except those are NOT basic facts... they are, once again, your opinion.

(and apparently, the only ones who "show promise" are the ones who agree with you? LOL!)

and, again, you happen to be incorrect.  Microsft and Yahoo don't actually have the best developers...   their products have cornered the marketplace and they have been cruising without any real development (except backwards, IMO) for years.   for example, each successive version of windows and MS Office has beena STEP BACK in terms of functionality in most cases - for the past 4 releases.

as for "everything's outdated" -- once again, your opinion.


and, as for user demand...  there actually is not all that much demand for a WP bridge...   Yep, there are some... but, for the most part, people are quite happy using SMF without a bridge to WP.

[Spr1te]

except those are NOT basic facts... they are, once again, your opinion.

And millions of others.

(and apparently, the only ones who "show promise" are the ones who agree with you? LOL!)

Nasty! Must keep an open mind.

and, again, you happen to be incorrect.  Microsft and Yahoo don't actually have the best developers...   their products have cornered the marketplace and they have been cruising without any real development (except backwards, IMO) for years.   for example, each successive version of windows and MS Office has beena STEP BACK in terms of functionality in most cases - for the past 4 releases.

Sure they don't, you keep thinking that. As for functionality, your opinion. Millions would disagree with you.

as for "everything's outdated" -- once again, your opinion.

Which I and many others are entitled to, whether these are taken on board remain to be seen.

and, as for user demand...  there actually is not all that much demand for a WP bridge...   Yep, there are some... but, for the most part, people are quite happy using SMF without a bridge to WP.

Surpass the bridge and develop an integrated blog/forum of equal or better functionality and design than WP and you have a winner.

[Kindred]

actually, with regard to microsquish...Millions might disagree with me. Millions more agree with me.

I have an open mind... just because I disagree with you does not mean otherwise.  Jeez, why does every argument on the internet descend to that excuse? (You disagree with me, therefore you are not open minded)

never said that you were not entitled to your opinion. I just said that your opinion happens to be mistaken.

Perfect quote:
"I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong"

[Spr1te]

Ha ha haha You never quit do you. A veritable one way street. Millions more...indeed!

In case you are unaware this is not an argument or @ least that's the way I'm treating it. A mere discussion bent on extracting the truth and solution from this ongoing topic.

So if my opinion is mistaken I suppose Ill have to take you back your quote..

"First lesson in project management: Take what is requested, analyze it and the determine what is worth putting effort into..." > What I want to know is WHO does the requesting, potential user or you??? Id say that makes us both wrong then...correction Im always right seldom wrong in your case regrettably you lose hahha.

As for perfect quote I think ive already addressed that in fine form eh. Oh and lastly ...The customer IS always right!

[Kindred]

Nope... the customer is, quite frequently, just plain wrong.
there are PLENTY of user requests that just do not make sense - from a functionality perspective from a UI perspective, or because it's either a silly request or an extremely niche request...

It may be one thing when the customer is paying for the service... but even then, the customer is quite often wrong.

Projects require four things
Scope - Cost - Time - Quality

if anything in that list changes, then everything else has to change to accommodate it....
(in our case, cost is not a factor, since none of us are paid and no one pays for the software or the features)
-- You can increase the scope (aka add features) by adding time or decreasing quality.
-- you can decrease the time by cutting scope or cutting quality
etc and so forth

As for who makes the decisions about what goes into our software... primarily the devs, with input from the team and final sign off from the PM or Dev lead. (although I have never yet seen anything turned down that a dev has already coded or feels strongly about)

this is, actually, technically an argument - since we have two contradictory positions...   that is pretty much the definition of an argument...