Advertisement:

Author Topic: Re: SMF and PHP 7  (Read 29554 times)

Offline digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
  • Gender: Male
    • realdigger on GitHub
    • SMF Russian Community
Re: SMF and PHP 7
« on: September 27, 2016, 02:34:36 PM »
Current php version is 7.0 and it was released a year ago. Why you still not add support for current php version?

Offline Suki

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • Kaizoku Jotei
    • SMF mods
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2016, 03:11:09 PM »
Because doing a large change like that to a massive codebase like 2.0 while keeping compatibility with the rest of PHP versions we support and all the weird server configurations SMF is installed on takes time, requires effort, knowledge  and careful planification. All of that while developing 2.1 and, as always, lack of manpower.
I'm not a criminal.
I'm not a rapist.

Offline digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
  • Gender: Male
    • realdigger on GitHub
    • SMF Russian Community
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2016, 03:40:44 PM »
Because doing a large change like that to a massive codebase like 2.0 while keeping compatibility with the rest of PHP versions we support and all the weird server configurations SMF is installed on takes time, requires effort, knowledge  and careful planification. All of that while developing 2.1 and, as always, lack of manpower.
Mysqli and PDO extensions which software needs to work with current php versions was released with php 5.0 more then 10 years ago. SMF 2.0 was released 5 years ago.

Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 67,172
    • Arantor on GitHub
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2016, 03:50:27 PM »
Except 2.0's database code was written when PHP 4 was still very much around and long before PHP 5 was standard, let alone PDO being standard.
To assume is to hope that those who came before had the presence of mind and capacity to implement the dreams of those who would come after.

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. It seems you have chosen your role in this, and now I must choose mine.

Offline digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
  • Gender: Male
    • realdigger on GitHub
    • SMF Russian Community
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2016, 03:56:12 PM »
Mysqli can be added to SMF 2.0 database layer whithout "doing a large change like that to a massive codebase". There is a mod which do this and SMF 2.0 succesfully work on php 7.0 with this mod.

Offline Suki

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • Kaizoku Jotei
    • SMF mods
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2016, 04:02:31 PM »
There are more issues than adding support for MySQLi.

The change is doable, but again, it requires time and effort, theres only so much a person can do on her free time at once. It will be done when time allows to do so.
I'm not a criminal.
I'm not a rapist.

Offline digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
  • Gender: Male
    • realdigger on GitHub
    • SMF Russian Community
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2016, 04:05:04 PM »
So... Will be wating another several years.

Offline Suki

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • Kaizoku Jotei
    • SMF mods
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2016, 04:13:42 PM »
So... Will be wating another several years.

That implies you have been waiting several years which is incorrect. You said it yourself, PHP 7 has been released a year ago.  Theres still time until PHP7 gets broadly accepted by major hosting companies.

But anyway, yes, all you can do is wait (Thats what everyone else does anyway).  Me, on the other hand, have to actually work on this while reading all the complaints we will get for not doing so earlier... and all the complains about 2.1 too... and save my rants for myself and put a happy face to everyone.

Screw my vacations!  who needs a relaxing time away from a computer anyway...
I'm not a criminal.
I'm not a rapist.

Offline margarett

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 19,762
  • Gender: Male
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2016, 04:51:06 PM »
There is a mod which do this and SMF 2.0 succesfully work on php 7.0 with this mod.
Actually no. This MOD only duplicates *-mysql.php to *-mysqli.php. Inside all functions are still *mysql* which causes fatal errors in php7.
So you basically need to properly duplicate mysql --> mysqli calls (and function calls have changed) and fix session handing changes.

It is being worked, but it requires more than meets the eye ;)
Se forem conduzir, não bebam. Se forem beber... CHAMEM-ME!!!! :D

Quote
Over 90% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair

Offline digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
  • Gender: Male
    • realdigger on GitHub
    • SMF Russian Community
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 05:01:22 PM »
There is a mod which do this and SMF 2.0 succesfully work on php 7.0 with this mod.
Actually no. This MOD only duplicates *-mysql.php to *-mysqli.php. Inside all functions are still *mysql* which causes fatal errors in php7.
So you basically need to properly duplicate mysql --> mysqli calls (and function calls have changed) and fix session handing changes.

It is being worked, but it requires more than meets the eye ;)

I have a forum working on php 7.0 with this mod.



Offline Matthew K.

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,440
  • Gender: Male
    • matthew.kerle on Facebook
    • @matthew_kerle on Twitter
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 09:02:43 PM »
I second this request. If it isn't done in SMF 2.0.13 I know a lot of people who are going to find other forum software.

Offline AlphaBlend

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 01:57:19 AM »
There is a mod which do this and SMF 2.0 succesfully work on php 7.0 with this mod.
Actually no. This MOD only duplicates *-mysql.php to *-mysqli.php. Inside all functions are still *mysql* which causes fatal errors in php7.
So you basically need to properly duplicate mysql --> mysqli calls (and function calls have changed) and fix session handing changes.

It is being worked, but it requires more than meets the eye ;)

I have a forum working on php 7.0 with this mod.



I second this request. If it isn't done in SMF 2.0.13 I know a lot of people who are going to find other forum software.

Let me just take the time to say this.... I feel that as a fellow developer myself (not an SMF dev, I don't know much PHP!), this really needs to be said. We work hard for you guys, we really do. You are the reason we exist. While we can't satisfy every need or request you make, we do our best. We do have our shortcomings and pitfalls, but in the end we are really here for you, and that is what matters most to us.

I have little to no knowledge of PHP 7, but I trust the SMF guys know enough of their codecase and PHP 7 to know what should work and shouldn't work. Just because you see a forum using a mod for PHP 7 doesn't mean it was easily done, nor does it show any headaches that may have come about while working on the mod. Apply that to the official version of SMF. You just simply can't come here and say it was done, without any knowledge of possible issues that may have been reached.

Anyways, why the big rush anyways? SMF works just fine the way it is, so I don't see why people would ditch the software if 2.0.13 isn't compatible with PHP 7... and don't hassle the developers either. People do that all the time, and there are misconceptions which are why that happens in the first place. Our job is fun, or it's boring, but it takes energy to do what we do.

Offline digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
  • Gender: Male
    • realdigger on GitHub
    • SMF Russian Community
Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2016, 10:44:45 AM »
Anyways, why the big rush anyways? SMF works just fine the way it is, so I don't see why people would ditch the software if 2.0.13 isn't compatible with PHP 7... and don't hassle the developers either. People do that all the time, and there are misconceptions which are why that happens in the first place. Our job is fun, or it's boring, but it takes energy to do what we do.
SMF works fine only with PHP5 which have active support until 31 Dec 2016. After that date only PHP7.0 will have active support status and SMF2 dosn't work with this currently supported platform.


Offline Matthew K.

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,440
  • Gender: Male
    • matthew.kerle on Facebook
    • @matthew_kerle on Twitter
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2016, 01:11:34 PM »
There is a mod which do this and SMF 2.0 succesfully work on php 7.0 with this mod.
Actually no. This MOD only duplicates *-mysql.php to *-mysqli.php. Inside all functions are still *mysql* which causes fatal errors in php7.
So you basically need to properly duplicate mysql --> mysqli calls (and function calls have changed) and fix session handing changes.

It is being worked, but it requires more than meets the eye ;)

I have a forum working on php 7.0 with this mod.



I second this request. If it isn't done in SMF 2.0.13 I know a lot of people who are going to find other forum software.

Let me just take the time to say this.... I feel that as a fellow developer myself (not an SMF dev, I don't know much PHP!), this really needs to be said. We work hard for you guys, we really do. You are the reason we exist. While we can't satisfy every need or request you make, we do our best. We do have our shortcomings and pitfalls, but in the end we are really here for you, and that is what matters most to us.

I have little to no knowledge of PHP 7, but I trust the SMF guys know enough of their codecase and PHP 7 to know what should work and shouldn't work. Just because you see a forum using a mod for PHP 7 doesn't mean it was easily done, nor does it show any headaches that may have come about while working on the mod. Apply that to the official version of SMF. You just simply can't come here and say it was done, without any knowledge of possible issues that may have been reached.

Anyways, why the big rush anyways? SMF works just fine the way it is, so I don't see why people would ditch the software if 2.0.13 isn't compatible with PHP 7... and don't hassle the developers either. People do that all the time, and there are misconceptions which are why that happens in the first place. Our job is fun, or it's boring, but it takes energy to do what we do.
And actually, I am a software engineer in real life with around 10 years of experience. I know SMF very well, and PHP. It can and should be a priority to get done.

Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 67,172
    • Arantor on GitHub
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2016, 01:44:52 PM »
While we're waving e-peen around, I'm a 13 year PHP veteran, Zend certified and I've been on the SMF customisation and dev teams. No one is disputing that it needs to be done. No one is disputing that it should be done.

The only dispute is who by and when. Don't know if you'd noticed, but there is only one person with a dev badge right now. And all the people who contribute have jobs etc meaning their contribution time is limited at best.

If you are so ****** hot at it and are so desperate for it, ******ing contribute it.

Sorry for language but I'm tired of people complaining about things that they expect others to deal with.
To assume is to hope that those who came before had the presence of mind and capacity to implement the dreams of those who would come after.

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. It seems you have chosen your role in this, and now I must choose mine.

Offline Matthew K.

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,440
  • Gender: Male
    • matthew.kerle on Facebook
    • @matthew_kerle on Twitter
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2016, 02:24:18 PM »
This is really a completely separate discussion. However, because you brought it up, I have offered to contribute multiple times in various different ways and no one ever had a clear answer on what needed to be done or said that my work would be accepted if I spent my spare time that's limited getting the stuff done. Why would I waste my time trying to do something if I couldn't get a confirmation it would be implemented if I did it right? Also, on a different communication channel I was told that it would probably not be included in SMF 2.0.x version even if it was done -- which is what I strongly disagree with.

Offline Suki

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • Kaizoku Jotei
    • SMF mods
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2016, 06:54:52 PM »
Whatever information you heard labradodle or the Jr or whatevernew account you use now,  it is incorrect.  As a pm I'm telling you and whoever that has asked us (seriously,  anyone that has asked about php 7 has received a response from usclearly indicating this is going to be done)  , that this will be done and it's on our plans.  No one has ever denied this is a priority and no one has said this isn't gonna be done so please don't spread misinformation.


This  is the SMF pm officially  telling everyone that php7 compatibility is gonna be done and it's on our plans. 

Whatever other info on whatever other channel or conversation should be dismissed.


As for contributions,  you say you need some confirmation  right? If that's all you need then by all means use this message as confirmation that your code will be included.  But we both know you won't do anything and now that all there is to do is actual code,  you will silently withdraw from here.
I'm not a criminal.
I'm not a rapist.

Offline Matthew K.

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,440
  • Gender: Male
    • matthew.kerle on Facebook
    • @matthew_kerle on Twitter
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 11:11:54 PM »
It was the only SMF developer who's not given me direct answers after I've volunteered to help on many different occasions, so I wouldn't say that's misinformation. If you're saying otherwise, that's fantastic.

You obviously do not know much about me, if I felt SMF was going in the right direction I would spend time contributing again. I have asked for specifics. What is left to be done before SMF 2.1 can be installed here on SimpleMachines? What specifically is left that has to get done? Are the milestones accurate, meaning all that's left in them are the true things holding those releases and once they're done that milestone will be released?

Offline Glyph

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Gender: Male
Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 11:34:54 PM »
I am not the most contributive or knowledgable person here buttt....
You seem to be focusing on the release of the new version when the focus should be on making the new version releasable.

To translate I mean there are alot of things i see right off the bat that can be tweaked. And I think it's those tweaks that need to be ironed out before extra major features are added. I'm in a similiar boat about how everything should be done etc... but thats because I have no experience with github. I'm regularly learning more and more about it.

I've never actually coded collaboratively with others so it's an entirely new concept to me. If that's what your issue is then i'll tell you what i've been telling myself. Learn to github. If you see an issue then fix it, there's no dictionary of what code needs to be fixed or where exactly it is; that i know of. So, pick something and work on it. For example: my pick is the registration features. In my signature i've laid out a problem I had and that i'de like to work on to fix that. (or add in my case)

No other forum software fits my licensing needs and is as secure (in my opinion) as SMF. The plugin system, the templating system, all of it would take me months to write in my own time and is beyond my level of skill (theres more than just coding skill involved; take for example the design of the database, or the UI design, or a multitude of other aspects) This goes along with project management and being able to assess the needs and concerns and then roll them out with "accomidations"

I could explain on and on and on and on. Ask yourself this: what do you want to work on and why? How are you going to do that?

Make code not war.

https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1
Personal TODO:

Offline Matthew K.

  • SMF Super Hero
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,440
  • Gender: Male
    • matthew.kerle on Facebook
    • @matthew_kerle on Twitter
Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2016, 11:38:32 PM »
Oh boy...