Another Paid Subscription problem

[ace123]

Hi Folks.

As an SMFer of a decade or more I've looked all through the manuals and the helpful posts but I'm obviously missing something obvious... very obvious.

I've got a tidied, culled membership of 3,000 and subscribers coming in at 2 per day so I thought it's about time to make it a paid service but only for newcomers.

Guests can look at two posts before being prompted to register.

I've created a subscriber group that mirrors all permissions of the existing free members...

Ive activated the subscriptions option and turned encryption off on paypal.

If I register as a new member I just go sailing in to the subscriber membership group getting full access without having to pay...

So...what have a I done wrong? 

All help appreciated. 

[Arantor]

I'd assume the board(s) that are meant to be restricted are visible to post count groups or something similar, it's almost certainly that there's extra groups going on that haven't been removed from having access.

Or, did you remove the post count group for 0+ posts?

[ace123]

You may be right.. heres two screenshots ... do they help to explain my problem?

[Arantor]

Not really, no. You have an area of the forum that only subscribers + moderators can see, right? What's the configuration of that area look like?

[ace123]

It's the same as the existing members can see. All member groups see everything.

Im probably not explaining this correctly but I want the existing members to carry on with their free membership and just capture subs from new members.

What triggers that if the membership permissions of a subscriber group are the same as a free membership group? Thats the bit I think is missing and the manual does not explain that.

[Arantor]

There's nothing missing. If a subscriber group has the same permissions as another group... it has the same permissions as that other group. It's working exactly as designed.

All that happens is it changes the name attached to that group.

Seems to me that you need to move everyone who is currently a member into the subscription group manually, and then remove permissions from people not in that group.

[Illori]

the idea for most, when they subscribe they are getting more then they do currently. so the way you are doing it it seems they dont actually gain anything right?

you could add the existing members to the paid sub group without having them pay.
if you are giving all the same permissions to the regular members group then what you are seeing is expected. you need to have the permissions different for it to look different.

[ace123]

OK Understood... many thanks.

...but do I now need to manually move each member individually via their profile or is there a quicker magic way?

And - because I'm trying to think ahead... when a new member then registers,,, how do I prompt them to pay ... or do I just reduce the board access to the joining membergroup so they can't see anything?

[Illori]

check our building your community board, it has some topics on this and advise on what you can try to do.

[ace123]

Me again.

I lost the will to copy paste 3000 members permissions as I had to change job, country and have had twins....anyway... I thought I'd try again and wondered if anyone in the meantime had found a better way to do this?

To be honest the whole cut and paste and then trying to work out how to charge new members is a bit beyond me. I've set up the subscription membergroup but am now wondering what to do next.

I've looked around but can't find any idiot-proof guidance. Can anyone help?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Not sure what you want to do.  Looks like you have around 3500 members in post count groups, do you want to move all members into subscriber group?

[ace123]

Yes. I want to do that and then just have subscription only for new members.

I just counted 88 new members for January - so a subscription option is viable. The forum is small but already lively so a drop in new members will not hurt it.

I'm quite creative but openly useless at database stuff and don't know anyone that can help.

Any assistance appreciated

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You could run a mysql query that will change id_group to subscription group for all members except admins and moderators.

[ace123]

Hi Sir Osis

I've transferred all existing members to Subscriber Group, activated subscriptions, checked with paypal re the PHP code ... and it does'nt work.

Any clues? I cant understand how this can be so difficult (apart from me being stupid)

TY

[ace123]

...Is it that someone registers and they get made an ordinary member in an "ordinary membergroup"  ... and then have to choose to subscribe >>>> and then once paid join the "Subscription group" with the current members??

The SMF online Manual does not explain that part.

If so how do I tell them that? I am struggling here.   

[Kindred]

yes,, that is correct....   as for how to tell them -- make a news item? make a stick post? Use a portal and make a block with instructions?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

When you activate paid subs, it adds a 'Paid Subscriptions' link to members' profile menu.  You can also add a 'Subscribe' button to main menu that links directly to subscription page.  Place a big honking news item at top of forum (Admin -> News and Newsletters) to announce the subscription feature.

[ace123]

Defeat.

I just cannot get my head around it... it's just so complex for such a simple operation. I cannot understand why and new person registering is not prompted to join and pay... instead it looks as though they have to join as a default member, be faced with a forum they can't see and then suddenly of their own volition choose to go to their profile and then to a drop down in actions and then choose to pay. It looks like a dog's dinner - please tell me thats not how it works... does anyone have a working forum with a clean payment interface that isnt like that?

I wouldn't mind but even then it doesn't work.

I have moved existing members to a subscribers group
I have set up paypal and it works
All new members join a default group that is also a Newbie (0 post) count group that has full permissions to see everything
If I change the permissions for the Newbie group (to have no access) that means all the existing members in the subscribers group (who have 0 posts) now have to subscribe to see the forum
I cant see a regular members group yet presumably one exists.

I'm quite happy to pay someone to sort it out - I'm just completely at a loss on how to solve the issue and cannot believe its so clunky.

[Kindred]

All members always belong to TWO groups.

one group, based on post count.
one group, assigned -- if no group is specifically assigned, then they fall into the "regular members" group.

regular members is not a "real" group. You can't assign people to it, ou can't manipulate the name, and it never shows up in any group membership description/list.   It does, however, have a permissions profile that you can set.
All members who are not specifically assigned to an assigned group (a non-post-count-based group) will belong, by default, to the "regular members" group.

If you would rather have all members automatically assigned to a specific group after registration, you can use this mod
https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1804
(this will not affect current members and you would have to either manually assign them or do a bulk edit directly in the database (although, this is fairly simple))

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Defeat.

I just cannot get my head around it... it's just so complex for such a simple operation. I cannot understand why and new person registering is not prompted to join and pay... instead it looks as though they have to join as a default member, be faced with a forum they can't see and then suddenly of their own volition choose to go to their profile and then to a drop down in actions and then choose to pay. It looks like a dog's dinner - please tell me thats not how it works... does anyone have a working forum with a clean payment interface that isnt like that?

That is how it works, if that is how you set it up. You can however make a board only visible to regular members, and include instructions there or build a nice portal to tell your users what to expect and how to get there or... or...

Also, regular member access is a bit hidden, but configurable. You will need to go through each board separately, in Admin -> Forum -> Boards -> Modify boards -> (select a board) -> Modify, Scroll down to "Allowed Groups" and you will see access settings for all groups at once.

[Illori]

how about a redirect board that redirect to the paid subs page?

https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?action=profile;area=subscriptions will link to that page for all users.

[ace123]

Ok - thanks - that's clearer but I still think it looks a bit clunky.

I have to ditch all the post based groups - due to the fact that subscribers with 0 posts wont be able to see the forum. Seems extreme.

PLUS.... change the permissions of "regular members" (ie new registrants) to not read anything on the forum and then hope they subscribe.

Can't believe I'm the only person whos gone through this and thought that SMF may be the wrong medium. Has anyone got an SMF  forum that has an easy accessible subscription option .... and looks good?


I've been with SMF for ages but it all looks like I'm having to build a plane out of rubber bands and glue when there may be a serviceable jet around the corner ...

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

I have to ditch all the post based groups - due to the fact that subscribers with 0 posts wont be able to see the forum. Seems extreme.

If you make subscribers go to a new group that has access - then the 0 post group not having access will not be a problem, and all subscribers will get access through the subscriber group.

[Illori]

you also canNOT remove the 0 post count group or VERY bad things will happen if you figure out how.

[Kindred]

And you don't have to "ditch" any group.

SMF permissions are INCLUSIVE.  This means that if ANY group gives a user permissions to do something, then the user can do that thing.

So, you can leave the post-count groups and turn OFF the post-count permissions....
or, you can set all of the post-count group permissions to "disallow"....   and then set permissions within the regular member or assigned groups to "allow" for the permissions that you want them to have.

The one exception to this is the DENY permission. If you use this DENY, then the users in that group will never be able to do that action regardless of any allow.
https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Disallow_and_Deny_-_What%27s_the_difference_when_it_comes_down_to_permissions

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Are you trying to make your forum subscription only for all members?

[ace123]

Hi Sir O

Yes. That's all I want.

I'd also like that new members are prompted to pay when they register ......and then they click - pay - and have full access. voila!

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help BTW but at the moment I am floundering


I haven't been a lazy bum and not searched for answers to this.... there are parts of answers: "What you need is a portal" "Just reassign the membergroup" but for a newbie it's like doing a rubic cube in the dark except you may end up fracking up your whole forum with the wrong click.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

So basically you want new members to subscribe as part of registration process?

[ace123]

yes

[Sir Osis of Liver]

There's no core feature that let's you do that, but believe I did it for a forum a while back.  Will have to find it a see if it works in 2.0.15.  Give me a few minutes.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Ok, now pay attention and backup your files before you try this.

/Sources/LogInOut.php

Code Select Expand



$_SESSION['log_time'] = 0;

/// redirect nonsubscribers to Profile -> Paid Subscriptions
if ($user_settings['id_group'] != '1' && $user_settings['id_group'] != '11')
$_SESSION['login_url'] = $scripturl . '?action=profile;area=subscriptions';

// Just log you back out if it's in maintenance mode and you AREN'T an admin.



This will send new member directly to Profile -> Paid Subscriptions when they login after account activation.  You need id_group for your subscription group, it's 11 in this example.


/Themes/default/languages/ManagePaid.english.php

Code Select Expand



$txt['paid_subs_desc'] = '<span style="font-size: 120%; color: red;">You must be a subscriber to access all content and features available on this forum.</span>';



This will display appropriate message in Subscriptions header, edit to suit.


You need to disable guest browsing in Admin -> Features and Options, so nonmembers see login window with register link.  You can edit the text in window to suit -

/Themes/default/languages/Login.english.php

Code Select Expand



$txt['warning'] = 'Welcome to XYZ Forum';
$txt['only_members_can_access'] = '<span style="color: red;">You must be a registered member and subscriber to access all content and features available on this forum.</span>';



Give it a go and see what you get.

[ace123]

Thanks Sir O!!!

I'm going to get my tech guru in Kyiv to have a crack at it tomorrow

I'll report back.

Blue wire.

red wire.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Once you have that working, you'll need to do stuff with permissions to restrict nonsubscriber access.  Tinkering with that now.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

The permissions side of things should be fairly easy if you only want to give people access as a subscriber.
Just go through all the boards, and make sure the only group with access is the subscriber group ( and any other you wish to separately allow, like staff ).

[ace123]

Hats off to Sir O

It's Alive!!!! And working!!!

many thanks!!