Paid Subscriptions - Making Changes in the Subscription Amount after 1st year

[lady_l]

Hi everyone,

Been quite a while since I have posted here, and enjoying my visit today. I have a question:

I have an optional paid subscription set up on my forum, to help pay our expenses. They subscribe by using the Payoal button in their profile page (I didn't change anything about how that works). 

I would like to charge less for the subscription now, as I have enough subscribers to meet our needs (Let's say it cost $15 to join up to now, and  I want to charge $10 per year for everyone from now forward, both to renew and for new people to join).  Rather than refund the present subscribers, which involves PayPal fees and seems complicated and costly,  I would like to extend the subscription period for our present subscribers by four months then they would renew at $10 and any new subscribers would pay $10..

I would like to know the best way to accomplish this? 

I would need to:

extend all present subs by 4 months
cancel the renewal notices and invoices from PP for all current subscribers
create a new subscription and send a notice or invoice for the new amount when the renewal payment is due

I do not see an option for changing the paid subscription period to more than 12 months. So I thought I would uncheck the box for recurrent subs and then ...? create a new sub for 3 months for free, then create another new sub for everyone, for 12 months at $10, recurring payment after 12 months.

Would this be the best way to do it? The obvious problem is that people who are joining for the first time will see the "4 months free" button too and use it instead of the $10 per hear button. Also the 4months would have to follow the original subscription for 12 months, not run concurrently with it.

I can make a button in PayPal as well, maybe do that for the free 4 months? 

Thanks in advance!
LL

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The main problem you have is you can't change the auto renewal amount for existing subscriptions that were ordered with recurring payment checked.  That must be done in subscriber's PayPal or credit card account by subscriber.

[lady_l]

Okay, I guess that won't work. I will have to individually refund their PayPal accounts, rather than give them a few more months before renewal is due.
It will tae a little while but I can do that.

Suppose I ask them all NOT to renew their current subscription (i.e. cancel the invoices, which I believe, they can do in PayPal) and then resubscribe?

In order to have them resubscribe I will need to either change the payment amount for the current subscription button, which I can edit in the control panel, or create a new subscription button (also an option in the control panel)? 

Thanks in advance,

L.

[Bob Perry of Web Presence Consulting]

Okay, I guess that won't work. I will have to individually refund their PayPal accounts, rather than give them a few more months before renewal is due.
It will tae a little while but I can do that.

Suppose I ask them all NOT to renew their current subscription (i.e. cancel the invoices, which I believe, they can do in PayPal) and then resubscribe?

In order to have them resubscribe I will need to either change the payment amount for the current subscription button, which I can edit in the control panel, or create a new subscription button (also an option in the control panel)? 

Thanks in advance,

L.

Well, you are on the right track, there is a way to accomplish what you want, but it is not quite as straightforward as the average site owner runs into, not even sure if the method I've pondered and thought about since you first posted this inquiry is viable, but I definitely read it immediately and tagged it to auto-notify me by email when somebody responds... still putting this together in my head, bear with me...

There is a very old module I have that still functions in the current versions fairly well you might look at later when we get the current out of the box options squared away for ya in the present, more on that later but the basic jist of its function is to allow you to set a "one'time" non-recurring payment for a "lifetime" period... don't bother with looking on my site at that right now, I'm having some major issues with functions at my site currently due to timing of performing a transition to secure site connection (HTTPS:// vs. HTTP://), upgrading the version to 2.0.14, and changing host company & domain name registrar all at the same time... (grin) major hair pulling, swearing and still a few stubborn bugs to fix a month later... mostly related to php environment settings... I'm working like a maniac to attempt to have it all back to normal and set to go by the time the eclipse occurs this coming Monday, would be great Karma IMHO

First thing that occurs to me is that you'll need to do is send a pm to every member in every group that has a currently active subscription in whichever option it is in question telling them to login to their account profile admin settings and uncheck the recurring charge option checkbox associated with that subscription, most effectively done via administrators option to send members messages in the Newsletters feature because it allows you mass mail the same message to select-able member groups and force the post to send even if they've selected to NOT receive notices from the site via their email... in the message be sure and clearly explain what you are doing and why, inform them to terminate the auto renew of that subscription on their PayPal side as well, then be patient and monitor the admin screen that displays the subscription status of all your available subscriptions for all members... you may also need to manipulate the individual accounts in that particular subscription set so that all remaining "active" accounts have the same expiration date in each of their accounts, then maybe once a day or every couple days go into your "Maintenance" admin menu screen and click the drop down sub-item named "Scheduled Tasks" and scan the list of options and select the one referring to checking the "Subscription Notices..." and tick mark the box in the "Run Now" column and click the corresponding button at bottom of screen... Anyway once the overall subscriptions status of all the members status in that "set" have moved into the "finished" column, it is safe to edit that subscription to a forum wide disabled status so no one else can subscribe to it, and of course while you are waiting for that to occur you create a new one that is configured to your needs and mass mail everyone on the site announcing the new option...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I will have to individually refund their PayPal accounts, rather than give them a few more months before renewal is due.  It will tae a little while but I can do that.

Not easily, you don't have access to their PayPal accounts, and a refund does not cancel the recurring payment in the account.  They will continue to be charged at old rate.

Suppose I ask them all NOT to renew their current subscription (i.e. cancel the invoices, which I believe, they can do in PayPal) and then resubscribe?

PayPal calls a recurring payment a 'subscription', every member who paid for paid subscription with recurring payment checked (default) will have to cancel the PP subscription.   No guarantee they will all do it, or know how to do it.  If they paid your PP account with credit card, they may have a recurring payment on the cc, don't remember how that works, but they may have to contact their bank to cancel it.

In order to have them resubscribe I will need to either change the payment amount for the current subscription button, which I can edit in the control panel, or create a new subscription button (also an option in the control panel)?

You can change the subscription rate by modifying the existing subscription. 

The lesson here is, recurring payment is a bad idea, and should be disabled.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I will have to individually refund their PayPal accounts, rather than give them a few more months before renewal is due.  It will tae a little while but I can do that.

Not easily, you don't have access to their PayPal accounts, and a refund does not cancel the recurring payment in the account.  They will continue to be charged at old rate.

Was thinking about this after I got off, not actually sure how that works.  If you refund a recurring payment, don't know if it leaves the PP subscription or deletes it, but I believe the subscription remains.  I've put in a support ticket with PayPal, will see what they say.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I've been advised by PayPal support that if a recurring payment is refunded -

'the recurring payments will remain active on the account unless it already reaches the subscription validity or expiration date.'

The PayPal subscription must be cancelled by account owner, you can't do it from the forum or forum's PayPal account.

[lady_l]

Thank you for calling them! Remember this is going to be a partial refund, not a full refund.

So PayPal told you that if I refund a subscription the refund-ee is  still subscribed! That kind of sucks. Suppose they are abusing their special privilege and I need to kick them out? Of course I could always remove them from the subscribers membergroup? I do not have this problem at the moment but it could happen.

But back to the matter at-hand.

When I called PayPal they told me to make a new button  in PayPal Tools, copy the link,and email it to everyone! I did not like the idea because it did not solve the problem of the button on the profile page.

I will send a message to each person, and post on our members-only board, too, requesting that they go to PayPal and cancel any invoices they get from PayPal for the old amount. They will have to resubscribe using the button on their profile page. I edited the subscription to reflect the new amount they will be paying.

As to refunds I will just send them the monty via "personal payment" (i.e. friend and family) once they resubscribe. I still have not figured out how I can extend their subscrptions a few months, it seems there is noway to do it.

I will LYK how this is working. 

L.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

An SMF paid subscription and PayPal subscription are two different things.  A PayPal subscription is a recurring payment, and works independently of the forum.  Even if you take the forum down you will continue receiving payments from former members who subscribed with recurring payment.  The member's PayPal account will continue making payments until it reaches an end date (there isn't one), or the PP account owner cancels it in their account.

If your subscription length is short, you could run a query to extend all active subscriptions to the latest end_time, deactivate the subscription to prevent new subscribers, create a new subscription at the lower cost, and notify members that they can resubscribe at lower rate when their old subscription expires.