Resurrecting a forum to or three releases back

[Just Another Member]

I shut down my forum  several months ago. Must've been a few new releases back but it is relatively recent. I made a mistake when I shut it down and sorry about it now but I want to bring it back. I had quite a few mods on it, Many I wrote myself. I have the database left and not sure if I have a copy of the code base.

What do you think would be the best course of action to take? I'll come back tomorrow and add some more detailed information, I'm laying in bed speaking this on my iPad using voice to text so ple excuse some of the weird words here.

I came here to the forum hoping to get some advice on whether I should just igndore my mods,  just do a fresh install both use my database using repair settings. Or what?

I can at least delete the integration Hooks. I'll be back with better details tomorrow. I'm just laying awake here, wondering what the best course of action would be. It's too bad I didn't remove all the  mods  before I backed it up, but I didn't plan on ever resurrecting it again.

But here I am today wishing I had the forum back.  I can't just start a new one because I have to email all my members and tell them that we are back.  And I have a lot of good content that I don't want to lose.

Anything like suggestions on what I should do would be appreciated. If there's any more info that I can get you other than my previous release level let me know what it is.

I'll be back tomorrow and please ignore my silly mistakes in my voice to text. Actually it's a miracle that it works at all!

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

If I was trying to do the same, I'd first try to make sure if the old files are still safe somewhere. If they are, you should be good to go by combining them, and your old database, and running repair settings to make sure everything is still correct. After this, just use patch updates to get up to date, and you could even be able to keep all your modifications.

If the old files are nowhere to be found, I would then probably create a new database temporarily,
install a fresh SMF in it, and after install use repair settings to change the database info to point to the old one.
Depending on the version you were on, you might need to run the upgrade scripts from the large upgrade package too, but "several months" sounds like a timeline where this wouldn't be needed.

Installing SMF
Upgrading SMF
What is repair_settings.php?

[Kindred]

there have been no database changes in 2.0.x -- so, if you have any 2.0.x version database, you would be good using any 2.0.x codebase/files

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I've done this several times with damaged forums.  Do a clean install, run repair_settings.php to fix paths and remove hooks, and fix_packages.php to clean up package manager.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

there have been no database changes in 2.0.x -- so, if you have any 2.0.x version database, you would be good using any 2.0.x codebase/files

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. Wasn't sure before

[Just Another Member]

Thanks gang!!!

I just knew you would come through with the good stuff!

So far I think I've located my latest SQL dump, so after some more searching dates I can go ahead and put that in my MySQL server and I'll be part way there.

I'm still hunting down my files. Even if I can't find them I think I'm good to go although not as good as if I found them. I've got mmm.... I forgot, 5? 6? 7? Network attached storage drives (total about 20 TB RAID) so I'm pretty sure I must have them somewhere. I wasn't planning on bringing the forum back but that's not Suzy! Suzy always saves her data for later mining, and you just never know what you'll wish you didn't delete, so I'm nowhere near full capacity although I sometimes shift drives (and dedicate some for different types of storage) so I have a pretty good chance of finding current files. Who knows? I might be able to resurrect enough to just bang! Log in!

So I'll at least locate my latest DB dump. I'm sure I did a final dump before I abandoned my server. I can get that mounted, and if nothing else I can remove the integration hooks and drop it onto the latest release code.

It's so funny, I even forgot a few mods that I already finished! I was working on them and forgot that I had them up and running!

Anyway that was very valuable info that the DB hasn't changed for 2.0. I also discovered that I was running whatever was current about 5/1/2016 so I can figure out what release although it probably doesn't matter if I can't find the final file dump. That is just not like me, when I close down a site I recognize I'm never going back, I know all the data is going to die, and I always dump the final code back on my local system. Or at least I hope this wasn't an exception.

Thank you gang and I'll report back when I know more. Thank you so much for such useful advice with admittedly not much to go on from my OP. Thank you all!

[Just Another Member]

UPDATE:

I'm so excited. I found a MySQL dump from Feb. 2017 which as I recall now about when I pulled the plug. I've gone ahead and made the same database name and pass, and uploaded my DB and used SSH command line to load it back into my SQL server, and just taking a few peeks it appears everything is intact.

I have my server blocks all set and currently serving a parking page from my URL, which works fine. I also have my old Settings.php but so far haven't located any code backup. Please note also that my domain was squatted so I have to begin my resurrection on a cheap .XYZ domain, but that shouldn't be too hard to handle in my settings. In the database... I don't know. I searched my local backup and discovered a lot of references like in my error logs. Why I didn't blow off the error logs before saving the dump, all I can say is this brunette must have been having a blonde moment!

So anyway of course first thing I'll do is clear all my error files. Presuming I can't find any file backup I think the least I can do is delete all the integration hooks.

I'm at a quandary about what to do next due to the conflicting advice above. I'm not sure which to follow, or try to cut the middle ground, or ...

Here is my idea and I wonder if it would work. First, unpack all the latest SMF files in the home directory. Delete install.php. Fix the file permissions with SSh. (I don't have FTP installed anyway: security hole, I use WinSCP over SSH.)

Then edit my local Settings.php (and backup) and make the obvious changes, then up them to the home directory. Run repair_settings.php to tune the last items. (My setup is a bit more tricky since it's HTTPS.) Then I wonder if I can just login and see if it works?

It's getting late and my family will be annoyed if I don't show up at mom & dad's place pretty soon, so this is a good time for me to be glad it appears my old database is back on my server, and give you nice folks some time to read over what I did and tell me the best way to proceed.

Just to go back over a fresh install, as far as I know the primary purpose is to (1) set your file permissions, (2) connect with and populate your database, (3) create an admin account, and finally (4) set your Settings.php up to date before your first login... It appears to me I won't need any of that stuff after I unpack SMF, upload my Settings.php (and repair if necessary) then I think it should be good to go. I don't know anything else a fresh installation does that isn't already in my database, and other than permissions I don't know that the fresh install touches the files at all.

I have another option, just for play today I had another test forum I was going to set up. Oh and I did, and it works fine (once I figured out the HTTPS problem). I can easily just copy over that entire file hierarchy and replace the settings files, shouldn't I be good to go right there? That totally bypasses any need to do anything except one "cp" Linux command? Seems to me it's "cp -rp here there" and that's it. Fix settings and it should just come right up after I've killed the integration hooks.

What do you think? And thank you everybody who has helped me so far!

[Just Another Member]

Just a quick update since of course you knew I couldn't leave well enough alone.

I did just what I said, except I can't remember where the integration hooks are. I couldn't remember my old Administrator account so I copied the pass and hash from the forum I just set up, ran repair settings, and I'm logged in!

There's something hosed with the themes though. I'm not getting any CSS even though the settings are right. I don't want to turn off HTTPS but all the theme stuff has been set to https not http.

But anyway once I turn off the integration hooks I should be a lot closer. Then fix the theme. Oh I forgot the remove packages thing. I hope that won't edit code since this is all 2.0.15 fresh code.

I better go before Mom and Dad kill me!

[Just Another Member]

Hey, don't anybody mark this topic solved! Somebody did that and it's not solved, not until I say it's solved. I still need help! Please!

Okay I took it a step further. (1) I turned off my cell. That fixed Mom & Dad. (2) I managed to find my way through the ruined CSS and reset my theme, and voila now it looks like the old board!

I will still need some help to get rid of the vestiges of my old mod packages, and I'm sure I'll have more questions before I have the forum sussed and back to running clean. Then I can install my mod packages that are working, and a few I got from SMF.

But please don't desert me. I promise I'll mark the topic solved when I feel I need no further help. I still need help!

OMG I better go right now because I don't want to die before my 37th birthday! I'll be back soon!

[Steve]

[offtopic]Geez, I wish I was 36 again.[/offtopic]

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Hell, don't even remember being 36.

[Gwenwyfar]

Well I'll thank to that that now I feel young 
Since most often in other situations things keep reminding me the opposite. Time flies, doesn't it?

[Steve]

Time flies, doesn't it?

Indeed it does.

[Just Another Member]

[offtopic]Geez, I wish I was 36 again.[/offtopic]

LOL you silly boy! Your bbCODEs don't even work! Hahahah!

You wanna go off topic and I think you are staff so I'll be happy to play by your rules!

Don't you think for a minute that I take lightly how fortunate I am. I got a double bachelor's and a half-time IT contract job and spend the rest of my time playing at making money. I think I can make my new server (2 months now) pay off and let me quit my IT job and take my IT business independent. I made money on this forum before (the one we are resurrecting) and I'm going to make money on it again. I split my time off work (and sometimes at work) trading stocks, heavy into Amazon right now and there is just no way they aren't going to make me money several years from now, or even in the last few weeks!

No I am not taking my fortune at being young at all for granted. My life is pedal to the metal and get out of the way! And I really appreciate people like you and my other helpers here for helping me figure the areas I'm not so familiar with. And I did all this with just one programming class plus my brother is in IT as a career, but I also have a BFF mentor who runs one of the Internet's largest adult sites, same guy who taught me server work.

You wanted off topic? I had a fantastic great Christmas! Mom and Dad got tired after dinner and my IT brother is a gamer, so I called a few of my GFs and we got together and laughed over old times. Parents live couple hours from me so I don't see the GFs I grew up with that often. We had a great time!

Then driving home, Christmas carols? No, I don't think so! More like Fergie "Double Dutchess" and I played the song M.I.L.F. $ about 3-4 times in a row cranked as loud as I could stand it. I'm home now and still playing the same album, they call it Contemporary R&B but I seriously suspect it has a lot of hip-hop in it!

So please don't get mad at me for having a good time. (oops, I just had to go back to M.I.L.F. $ for another listen) "You got that, you got that, you got that M.I.L.F. money!" I can't go on, the lyrics are explicit! I'm so lucky my condo is so insulated I've asked my neighbors if my music ever bothers them and they say not.

So you fired the first shot and that's fine with me! I can take it as well as I get it! I'm not going to apologize for having a brain at my age, not gonna apologize for bypassing the career in IT to go independent. Not gonna apologize for working the street (Wall Street). I'm going to live my life like Thelma and Louise and when I reach the end I'm going to be going so fast that when I go over the edge of the canyon it's going to be 10 minutes until you hear my spash! "I got that, I got that, I got your M.I.L.F. money!" LOLOL! Jeez gang, I am not going to apologize for being high spirited.

Back to my forum problem, I'm thinking that it all looks good now. I can login as Administrator and everything looks fine. I haven't told any of my staff it's up yet (I already have a crew lined up, and most importantly I hired my advertising manager) and the forum looks great. I have to hack off some sections I used to support an open source software project on (they found a new home). I don't want to touch a thing, yet. I feel the forum may be fragile, or at least I don't want to fill my error logs until I eliminate the major errors.

I think the biggest problem is my mods which are of course gone since I'm running virgin 2.0.15 code. I think the very next step is to delete all the integration hooks. Only problem is I wrote the mods but I forgot everyting. (I spend my 20 hours per week IT consulting job writing corporate apps). If somebody would clue me in where I forgot I put the hooks it would help. Otherwise I'll read my mods and then remember.

I have to laugh at how silly my memory is. I was thinking of asking for help completing a mod and didn't realize until I saw the forum that I had already finished the mod and got it working!

And you folks who wish you were 36 again, just what age are you? I'm not seriously asking, I want you to think about it yourselves. Just figure you will never again be the age you are now. Are you taking advantage of it? Or 20 years from now are you going to regret that you aren't the age you are now? You have to get it. Whatever age you are, take advantage of it because today is the last day you will ever be that age again. Are you making the best use of your time?

Me? I put in my dues writing boring corporate IT apps half of each week, spend the other half working Wall Street and working on my IT business. Pretty soon I'll be spending every day mixing my trading and my own IT company work. Oh, and do get Fergie's "Double Dutchess" album and play it loud, or get whatever music you like and play that loud! Life isn't about wishing you were some age. Life is about turning up the music loud, and living your life to the maximum.

Wanna discuss? Somebody please start a topic in Chit Chat and send me a PM and I'll party with you there!

So do you agree? Next step is to find the integration hooks in the DB and delete them? And where are they in the DB?


ETA: Jeez, it's 3 AM in the morning! OMG! I guess I had a pretty good Christmas!

[Illori]

https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Manually_setting_a_package_installed_or_uninstalled

maybe this would help you out. you can find the same feature in repair_settings.php which you should have used.

[Just Another Member]

Thanks Illori! I was just about to address the hooks but decided to check the topic first. That's exactly what I was going to do next only via PMA. Sounds a lot easier.

Good advice too. Don't remove all the hooks until all the mods are uninstalled. LOL! Good way to crash your forum having code in and hooks gone. My forum is of course virgin since she's just the standard 2.0.15 code as yet unmodified, my own files are not on the server. But I do have to capture a screen shot of the "installed" page so I know which mods to reinstall, and which order.

You know, we still have a system where the order of installation matters, even with the package manager. One sloppy mod can clog the whole process even if only by shifting a tab. I wish everybody would compare before/after on pages they modify to make sure they didn't change any formatting.

I install mods that I am dead certain of first because I know those will remain there for the foreseeable future. That is by the way the next step, installing my tried and true mod packages. — I'll have at that if I can get to it before work. Or during my break.

Just a comment about integration and changing existing code. Some mods change only integration hooks and other than removing their separate modules you can just delete the hooks and they are gone. Others, there aren't integration hooks for everything so the mod author has to alter mainstream code. If they are good, no problem. Unfortunately with free code you get a variety of skill levels.

I'm tempted to submit one of my mods so I can be a mod package author too! Woo hoo!

[Just Another Member]

Small update:

I read the code in fix_packages.php and remembered where the integration hooks are so I just deleted those entries from my database via PMA.

I have to run a few errands and work a bit but I guess next step is to shoot a screen shot of my installed packages and then find where that data is kept and delete it. There are of course no installed packages since this is a virgin 2.0.15 file set. I just need to reset the listing to show that nothing is installed.

[Illori]

we have tools that can do everything for you, why dont you use them? we dont want people to read code and manually do things we have a script that does for you without you needing to do anything else. most likely if you used clean files no packages should be listed as installed.

[Just Another Member]

we have tools that can do everything for you, why dont you use them? we dont want people to read code and manually do things we have a script that does for you without you needing to do anything else. most likely if you used clean files no packages should be listed as installed.

You don't understand. I'm just like you. I wrote most of my mods myself. I know what I'm doing. I never saw your script, I want to know what it's doing. I read enough of the script that I know I didn't want to do everything it was going to do until I'm ready for that, and I'm not ready for that yet.

I'm not people. I'm an IT professional. I don't run other peoples' code until I know what it's going to do. I don't want to take the mindless way out.

I'm considering submitting a mod package just so you folks will know that I know what I'm doing, maybe take me seriously.

I appreciate that you are trying to help me. My biggest problem is just that I haven't looked at the code base in almost a year.

I think my next step is to take a screen shot of my installed packages page and then look up where the data is stored in my DB and just delete it. That should pretty much get me to my content installed on a 2.0.15 forum with no mod packages. Then I can start reinstalling my most reliable mods.

[Just Another Member]

Well I guess the way things worked out I don't see any more problems you folks can help me with so I'm closing the ticket.

It appears that your packages installed are located in installed.list. Since mine is a virgin there is no information about what mods I used to have installed. I have my work on mods of course so I'll just go ahead and start installing packages that I know are solid and go from there.

It is rather unfortunate that your package installer relies on FTP to change file permissions. Not all servers have FTP and it is not always advisable to have FTP. FTP is merely another hole that hackers can use to hack your server. Instead I secured my SSH with public/private pass phrases (much better than passwords) and use WinSCP to transfer files. It piggybacks your SSH and is so much more secure than FTP could ever be. I can use SSH to set the write permissions e.g. find * -type f -exec chmod 766 {} + on my Themes directory which my first mod changed. Perhaps I may install vsftp and turn it on when I'm installing mods, turn it off otherwise. Or maybe I'll just stick with SSH. Making the whole Themes directory writable is not as much a threat as it may seem because by the time a hacker has gotten far enough to get that deep into your files you're going to have worse problems than getting your files changed. I consider a FTP port with an ordinary password to be far more dangerous.

So I got my first mod installed and it worked fine once I manually fixed the permissions. That implies that I can follow the same process to install any mod I wrote. I'm lucky I did find attachments, avatars, etc., although not the main file set, so now it's just a matter of finding things that don't work and fixing them, finding files that are missing and restoring them. I'm anticipating a launch date of April so there is plenty of time to track things down.

Some of the mods came from the SMF Modsite, most of them I wrote myself so I know the author and what was in her mind on how those mods work, shouldn't be any big deal to work my way down the list. I'll have to prune out the open source project I don't host any more. Demote some of the staff, promote some of the new hires.

This all appears doable, and I really can't see any big obstacles any more, just a mess of scut work until the forum is back together. The basic forum is now functional and I can use the Administrator account in its usual way to reconfigure my forum as "my forum, version 2" probably no problem. I've run a few dozen SMF sites so this is all old hat to me.

It's funny, I said I'd never run a forum ever again, never join a forum staff or accept an offer again. Then BTC got crazy and I craved the fun of watching my forum being enjoyed by my members as I get paid more advertising revenue. You can bet that the first person Suzy hired was her old advertising manager. I got a partner too but he doesn't do code. He's a good guy and is just crazy in filling our forum with content. In short, it appears this story may work out well in the end.

I enjoyed teasing around with the gang about me being just a cute baby of 36 years old. I would have thought a lot of you were as young or younger. I know your teasing was not mean spirited and I can take a joke as good as anybody.

I'll be around here. I'll probably have more problems. I particularly am interested in finding a collaborator and I'll release a few of my mod packages, ones nobody ever thought of adding to SMF. I won't mind if the collaborator gets all the props.

Thanks again all for your help and I think I can take it from here. I can come back and post new problems if I have any.

Thanks gang!

Suzy

[Illori]

It appears that your packages installed are located in installed.list. Since mine is a virgin there is no information about what mods I used to have installed. I have my work on mods of course so I'll just go ahead and start installing packages that I know are solid and go from there.

nope they are not stored in that file, and they have not been since SMF 1.1.*. that file has a part in the process of showing if they are installed but not all of it is in that file.

[Just Another Member]

It appears that your packages installed are located in installed.list. Since mine is a virgin there is no information about what mods I used to have installed. I have my work on mods of course so I'll just go ahead and start installing packages that I know are solid and go from there.

nope they are not stored in that file, and they have not been since SMF 1.1.*. that file has a part in the process of showing if they are installed but not all of it is in that file.

Well then where is the list installed? I'm getting nada when I look for my installed mods. I had 12-15 installed before I replaced the code base. Now I have just one line for the first and only mod I just installed minutes ago.

Is it in the MySQL database? Do I have to get out the chains and truncheons and beat it out of you? LOLOL!

[Sir Osis of Liver]

If you've uploaded a clean set of files, all mods are gone.  If package manager is showing installed/uninstalled mods, you can remove them with fix_packages.php before you try reinstalling mods.

Do a clean install, run repair_settings.php to fix paths and remove hooks, and fix_packages.php to clean up package manager.

[Just Another Member]

You didn't read my post. When I deleted the integration hooks ( I didn't look before ) there were no mods listed. I added the remove SMF logo and one mod was listed.

I think you are wrong. I think the mainfest is the governing item.

[Kindred]

No, Susan, you are wrong, and this is why we tell people to use the tools.

The hooks are in one place and the installed mod list is in another, but both are in the database.
The file is a holdover from 1.1.x and is not actually used by the system.

[Just Another Member]

No, Susan, you are wrong, and this is why we tell people to use the tools.

The hooks are in one place and the installed mod list is in another, but both are in the database.
The file is a holdover from 1.1.x and is not actually used by the system.

Then Kindred, please tell me where in the database the rest of the stuff is. Right now I'm stuck in limbo and cannot move forward until I know where the rest of the stuff is.

I once took somebody's forum that had an exploded database and reassembled all the parts until I got their forum back 100% for them. I know this explanation sounds strange but it's close to the truth.

Please don't make me play a guessing game and just tell me where the data is located. The current state of my forum is precarious and I have to dispose of the old existing problems before I backup a new baseline. But whatever it is I think running the tool now might have unpredictable results and I'm reluctant to try it because of that. I think I am better off analyzing the present state of the database before I just pull the trigger and hope for the best.

At present the very worst is that I can uninstall that one mod and then be back to the previous shaky baseline and then either do surgery on the database or run the tool. I'm reluctant because my forum is in an unusual state and I fear there could be quirky results. I want the opportunity to understand the full picture before I run a tool I didn't write myself.

Just please tell me where the package data is stored.

Also, granting that you are right, I need the data before I destroy it. I wanted my previous modification status but it was gone from the Mod Package related pages. I need the list of which mods were installed, which versions, and in which order. They weren't there so I decided I would just have to do without them, but if the data is in the database then I need to extract that before I run the tool.

I woke early and was going to continue working but now I can go neither forward or backward until I know where in the database the package info is stored, or I'll have to dissect the entire database to find it.

I'll hold off further work until I have the answers. Worst case I'll uninstall my one mod, locate and save the package data, then run the tool. But at least then I will know what is happening.

[Arantor]

The log_packages table.

[Illori]

if you read all of the code in the fix_packages.php file you would have had your answer before you even asked here.

[Just Another Member]

The log_packages table.

Thank you Arantor. I appreciate a nice simple answer over criticism.

The answer helps me solve my problem, the criticism makes me wonder why people don't have better things to do. I don't like people with an agenda unless their agenda is to help SMF users fix their SMF problems.

I'm here to get help on fixing my forum and your advice has sent me right to the correct space and saved me a lot of PMA snooping.

[Just Another Member]

The log_packages table.

Wow, I just had a look and I'm sure glad that table didn't get zapped! I'm surprised the installed packages on my resurrected forum didn't show that data, but all I saw was no packages at all.

I'm at a loss to explain why that data does not show up in my package manager, but not so much to read the code and find out.

I'll delete the package I installed and then save log_packages, then truncate it. That should get me where I want to go.

Thanks for the nice answer Arantor!


If I had run the script would it have wiped that table?

[Arantor]

Probably because of the installed.list file in the packages folder. This is also why people were discouraging you from trying to do it manually because even the people who literally built this stuff avoid doing it by hand.

If you had run that script it would have updated the table for you, not deleted it (at least last I checked)

Mind you if this were me resurrecting a forum, I'd have backed up the database and the files together as a single unit and be done with it.

[Just Another Member]

Arantor I would have done exactly as you said, and I swear that's exactly what I did; back up the database, back up the file base. I even remember doing that, except as hard as I search I can't find a trace of the file base. I've got about 20 TB of RAID in my local network and I've had to shift usage of network drives over time to keep the load balanced (and double-backup important files) but I can find nary a trace of the file base. That's when I decided my only choice was to strap on what I think is my final database over a fresh release file set. I wouldn't have set out to do that on purpose, I did it only because it was my last resort.

Does this make sense to you? (I guess I'll re-read the tool code and re-assess what it actually does) but I think my best bet is to uninstall the one mod I added, and then just save log_packages so I have a road map on how I assembled my previously working forum, and then simply truncate the log_packages table?

And I apologize to anybody who objects to doing things my way. Call me Contrary Suzy. I often find I learn more by doing things either the wrong way or the difficult way than by blindly following a check list. It is by our mistakes that we learn, yet if we make no mistakes then what are we to learn?

I'm still saving taking any further action until I can fully determine the consequences.

[Just Another Member]

Well I'm back to no mods and trying to decide what to do next.

I sure wish the mod log was used to show the mod status page.

[Arantor]

It partially is. It also assumes you have the physical mod packages on the server as well.

[Kindred]

It is... but it's a complicated combination.

It only shows mod status for mods which have FILES in the Packages directory....   In other words, if you delete the mod ZIP file form the Packages directory, the LOG will still be present, but the mod will not be listed in the Package Manager list.

Once again, I point you to all of the people above who said "don't try to do it by hand"
This is not "an agenda" unless you consider our agenda to help SMF users the best we can, including telling them the best way to do things and when NOT to do things.

[Just Another Member]

Thanks Arantor and Kindred. Now with a bit more research while I was off the site, I can see, yes exactly, you need the packages there AND the database entries too. Now I totally understand how that works (although I didn't read the code) so I hope you will at least understand that I know now more than I did before, and that's a good thing! — If you are going to work on SMF's code base it's impossible to know too much! Every little bit you learn will help you understand the code base more in the future. I would know none of this if I had simply run the script.

Now I have to decide whether to temporarily just put the packages back, just to get the Mod Package status page to display, or just skip the hassle and download the table and deduce what I need from that. Obviously it shows both installs and removals, not as good as the current status effective the last day this forum operated.

I'll download the table first, just to have a definitive list, and then decide whether it's worth uploading the actual mod packages and see if the status list pops up. I can of course do that much more quickly and also of course I have all the packages.

I hadn't planned on restoring THIS forum but somebody would have to be an idiot to throw away working code! I hadn't decided if I would ever operate a SMF forum again but I hadn't decided not to either, and I'm sure you know the effort that goes into a serious mod package. Some of them cost me weeks of programming!

I think I can use the table (or better, PMA search the table) to get just the list of installed mods, and then use WinSCP to put them in the correct directory, and that might just get me the printout I want. This is the one that shows me what ORDER they were installed in. That's important to me because I always put my most stable mods at the top, knowing they are trouble free and won't ever be uninstalled (unless there is a very major SMF upgrade).

I hate to say it and feel free to correct me, but even the miracle Package Installer we have, it still matters which order packages are installed and uninstalled in. Of course that is what the integration hooks were designed for, to make the package installer insensitive to ordering, but in the present day there are still packages where order matters, and I'm pretty sure there will always be mods that will require code modification that can't be written with just integration hooks.

By the way one little trick I invented that I probably didn't invent independently, but it can be quite handy to install your own custom integration hooks! Then you can attach your code to that and avoid a huge modification of a SMF file that would otherwise be required.

And just finally although we all know this, just the idea of actually manually changing the code is totally insane! With the current situation, in theory you can uninstall your way back to a virgin code release. We have neat little code packages that can change our forums in major and minor ways, but if you ever tried to do that by hand you would have to take voluminous notes of what you exactly did. Even when I make the most minor change I'll test the change first by altering code, and then use Notepad++ to help me spot the differences and refine that into a mod package. Whoever came up with the Package Manager was a genius! Would you know who that is?

[Just Another Member]

Just as a quick off topic, but as you know SMF's main mechanism to fix permissions is FTP. However many server ops such as I consider running FTP as a security risk (compared to securing your SSH with RSA private/public keys and then using WinSCP to upload instead of FTP). But that sticks me with modifying permissions via SSH since I have no FTP.

I was just curious what you think about a mod that would replace the FTP method with using exec() and commands like chmod to change any necessary permissions. Would that be a viable mod package for the Custom site? In theory?

[tinoest]

The code already uses chmod where it can to change permissions. exec is very insecure and I wouldn't like to use it unless I had to. It's almost as bad as eval. Although you can escapeshellargs to negate most of the problems. It also has a relatively high overhead for what it is. Especially when php has built in functions to change file permissions if it can.

[SaltedWeb]

This has been a good read, I had thought about resurrecting and old forum and this gave me some food for thought.
// OFF TOPIC //
36 . I have clothes older then 36. Awe if I knew then what I knew now.

Thank again for the read, good topic.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

// OFF TOPIC //
36 . I have clothes older then 36. Awe if I knew then what I knew now.

I think I have some clothes older than that too, and I'm just soon turning 34.

[Just Another Member]

The code already uses chmod where it can to change permissions. exec is very insecure and I wouldn't like to use it unless I had to. It's almost as bad as eval. Although you can escapeshellargs to negate most of the problems. It also has a relatively high overhead for what it is. Especially when php has built in functions to change file permissions if it can.

Well that was just idea #1. My mods rarely end the way they start. Yeah, use PHP not shell out. I doubt the overhead would matter.

That idea of using FTP, you're telling me that isn't HIGH overhead? And that FTP is secure??? If your FTP account has enough authority to change file permissions then how is that secure? Sorry, not buying that. In my opinion there is no place on a dedicated server for FTP into secure areas, although perhaps accounts restricted into play pens may be okay. Like to a file upload section... but definitely a heavily pruned FTP with limited command set. No way on allowing it to make files executable. I make the files write only, no read, no execute. That limits somebody to uploading a file to a restricted area, period.

This has been a good read, I had thought about resurrecting and old forum and this gave me some food for thought.
// OFF TOPIC //
36 . I have clothes older then 36. Awe if I knew then what I knew now.

Thank again for the read, good topic.

Well don't feel smug, smarty! I too have clothes older than 36. You ever her of us girls wearing antique stuff? I bet I have jewelry older than you too!!!

SRSLY, I'll follow any rules about off topic but once the staff starts it I figure I can give as good as I can get. And I don't mind MY topics going off topic as long as the OT is entertaining!

[Just Another Member]

And seriously although not on topic don't you think using FTP to change file permissions is a bit arcane?

I used to have trouble with that even when I was on a shared host and had no choice to not have FTP.

Not that I expect to be listened to, but the Package Manager should have the code built in to handle any permissions it needs to change while installing packages. That FTP thing is just nuts!


Back on topic, which do you think I should do, and why?

1.) Upload all my mod packages to get the Package Manager to show an up to date mod package status?

2.) Just truncate log_packages?

3.) Run the damned script.

Please justify your choice.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

You do understand that it is there as one option among others? It is not relying on FTP but can function with FTP if it is available. Since there are like 101 different setups out there, not any one solution would work for everybody.

And, run the script. You are on virgin files already, play safe and start fresh with modding too.

[Arantor]

Eh, if only that were how it worked.

It uses PHP's own chmod (rather than exec) because there's a reasonable chance it might work on shared hosting (unlike exec which so rarely works). And using FTP if chmod doesn't work is a logical progression for shared hosting in a way that exec isn't.

[Just Another Member]

Well that's funny because my first mod wouldn't install until I went via SSH and changed the file permissions. I kept hitting the button to complete the mod installation and it kept saying that the file permissions were not correct. I didn't bother filling any FTP parameters because I set-up the server myself from nothing more than Debian Jessie + SSH. I secured my SSH via RSA public/private keys then used WinSCP for any file transfers necessary. Built-in editor speeds up things like adding repositories. What I mean to say is that I am my own ISP and I know every thing installed on my dedicated server.

I'm at a loss as to why it wouldn't install if it doesn't need FTP as I had assumed. This will bear looking into because I don't want to play with SSH every time I install a mod. I'm going to have to have a look at the Package Manager code and dope it out until I understand how it handles file permissions. (Homework assignment #1.)

And then homework assignment #2 is to read and understand every line of the "fix it" file we have been discussing until I completely understand what it is doing.

Once I understand the file then I'll run it!

I hope everybody will understand that this girl is not looking for a quick fix. I don't like blindly doing things I don't understand. I learn nothing that way. I didn't learn to build a server by ticking off somebody's check list. I had to research everything that went into that server from securing my SSH to installing MySQL, PHP, nginx, proxying my fast CGI, installing email service, the whole shebang. Now I know everything that ticks under the hood of my dedicated server because the only part I didn't install myself was Debian. (I hit the button that imaged Debian Jessie 64-bit onto my raw server.)

I understand that you are into getting beginners up and running as quickly as possible, and that's good because most forum operators could care less how it works as long as their forum is up. As far as they are concerned it's FM to them. (Magic.) I'm different. I write my own code. I want to know exactly how things work so I can modify them to work my way. I'm just not the typical beginner. I'm a doer.

So I'll read the code and then I'll look at what it does. And then I'll report back and tell y'all how it worked!

I really appreciate your help and advice and I hope you don't mind when you run across somebody who wants to know why it works, not just get a quick fix. Maybe I'm the next generation of Simple Machines. I'm not stubborn, I'm inquisitive. I want to learn.

So thanks again, I know what to do now, and I'll let you know how it worked out. I should end up with a clean code base and a database that has all my posts and users but minus any mod packages. I do have mod package settings in my database, but I want them there because when I start reinstalling my mods they will already be configured.

Once I get to that point I'll do a full file backup and database backup and I'll have all the data I need to start out fresh if ever again I find myself in the fix I was in when I posted the OP.

Thank you all again!

[Arantor]

Because however you set it up, SMF couldn't write to the files which you have. This is normal in Jessie because I'd expect PHP to be running as the Apache user, and your files to be owned by your regular user account which wouldn't be in any of the groups that would normally have write access.

[Illori]

That's good because most forum operators could care less how it works as long as their forum is up. As far as they are concerned it's FM to them. (Magic.) I'm different. I write my own code. I want to know exactly how things work so I can modify them to work my way. I'm just not the typical beginner. I'm a doer.

you need to remember that we dont all know the code of SMF forward and backward. we are here to provide answers to users that dont know anything about php. some of the users here dont even know what php is, just that their forum either works or does not work. we get them up and running and they are happy. if you want to know the why to everything then read the source code the find your own answers.

[Arantor]

I don't think reading the source code is often that helpful either. There's a lot of missing context as to why things are done the way they're done - but there's maybe 3 or 4 people that tell you why things are so for any given piece of code.

[tinoest]

If it couldn't change the permissions then you didn't have it set up to the correct user. You need to chown the files recursively to www-data:www-data from the forum root directory.

[Just Another Member]

Because however you set it up, SMF couldn't write to the files which you have. This is normal in Jessie because I'd expect PHP to be running as the Apache user, and your files to be owned by your regular user account which wouldn't be in any of the groups that would normally have write access.

There is no Apache. It's nginx. Suzy doesn't do Apache. nginx is better. C4K etc. I had Apache at my shared hosting (1&1) and I write .htaccess just fine, but I like nginx better. I can set up new sites more quickly and IMO nginx is more efficient. But nobody will ever agree on that and I'm sure you could trot out all the reasons why Apache is better. I'll concede that nginx is more difficult to set up.

Yeah I'd expect it to be chowned by some sort of www-data:www-data but it's chowned by root:root and works fine. It was the permissions I changed that allowed my mod package to install. I'll look at the Package Installer code and see what it's doing, maybe set up a test SMF and put some debug statements in it to figure out what it's problemo is.

you need to remember that we dont all know the code of SMF forward and backward. we are here to provide answers to users that dont know anything about php. some of the users here dont even know what php is, just that their forum either works or does not work. we get them up and running and they are happy. if you want to know the why to everything then read the source code the find your own answers.

Sure, I understand that. I was a member a few years ago and spent some time on the support team myself (unofficially) and in essence did the same thing you are doing. I forgot my username and probably changed ISPs anyway so no way to recover the pass even if I could remember the username. That was back before I began writing mod packages and had to understand the workings inside. (Actually it's full of worms. Please don't tell anybody. It gives a bad impression when you tell newbs the truth!)

These days I know the code forwards and backwards, and on my back too, but have yet to learn it sideways. Alright I'm exaggerating or I would know the Package Manager code. Who ever mods that???

If you want some amusement go look up what PHP stands for. LOLOL! Once you have the answer you can join my department of repetitious redundancy department.

By the way, did you know that http://example.com is a real domain? LMFAO!!! And no, it's IP address is not 192.168.1.1.

I don't think reading the source code is often that helpful either. There's a lot of missing context as to why things are done the way they're done - but there's maybe 3 or 4 people that tell you why things are so for any given piece of code.

I remember when you had to know all the funny comments to find out where you'd hook your mods before we added the integration hooks. And the $context[] is just fine, it's not missing!

I can tell you why things are for tons and tons of SMF code. It's how I learned to code. I had only one class in college that was computer science. I majored in Lit and Psych, and minored in Art. I'm self taught and rewriting SMF had a big part of my learning PHP, SQL, Javascript, AJAX. Remember, the Internet is self documenting. Everything you need to know about PHP is on PHP.net. And there's those code help sites for coding and the W4C sites for HTML, CSS, etc. It's not rocket science. You just need a good memory for details. Code is all details, all details!

I'm pretty sure I've modded well over half of the files in Sources and half of the templates in the Themes curve section. It is a lot easier now that we have integration hooks.

If it couldn't change the permissions then you didn't have it set up to the correct user. You need to chown the files recursively to www-data:www-data from the forum root directory.

Correction: You need to do that if you are running Apache. You don't need to do that if you're running nginx.

Or if you do somebody forgot to tell that to my now functioning forum.

I could change a few config blocks and make nginx work that way (www-data) if I wanted it to. In fact I think I remember the exact file and line to change. This is the third time I've set up a server for nginx in about 5 years.

Wait, I just re-read that. If you are messing with chowning then I'll have to track that down and change either my server or SMF's code. However my custom CDS uses root:root so probably easier to just mod the Package Manager if it's messing with chownership. 'Nother piece of code I'll have to look at. Only thing is, my forum was running fine before I dropped the forum and let the server rental expire. I'm running exactly the same server config I used when this forum was active. At this point I'm not willing to claim I'm right, and not willing to accuse you of being wrong. It's a situation I'll have to investigate.

In case you're wondering why I'm typing instead of fixing, women have a minimum daily requirement for a healthful amount of shopping. I spent some time at Bed, Bath and Beyond but didn't get enough so I decided to take a break before I head over to Amazon. I probably won't get back to fixing until tomorrow. I need to break up my day into things other than code. But I enjoy taking about it when I'm not doing it.

I might even go help a few newbs by getting back into helping on this board. I always liked doing forum help as a form of Jeopardy. I'll pick off some easy questions and leave you ppl to answer the difficult ones.

[tinoest]

If it couldn't change the permissions then you didn't have it set up to the correct user. You need to chown the files recursively to www-data:www-data from the forum root directory.

Correction: You need to do that if you are running Apache. You don't need to do that if you're running nginx.

Or if you do somebody forgot to tell that to my now functioning forum.

I could change a few config blocks and make nginx work that way if I wanted it to.

It will Work without them but you'll have to manually change permissions. If you do change it then you shouldn't need to log on via ssh to change permissions.

So correction you don't need to do that on apache either if you're happy to log on to change them yourself.

[Arantor]

I can tell you why things are for tons and tons of SMF code. It's how I learned to code. I had only one class in college that was computer science. I majored in Lit and Psych, and minored in Art. I'm self taught and rewriting SMF had a big part of my learning PHP, SQL, Javascript, AJAX. Remember, the Internet is self documenting. Everything you need to know about PHP is on PHP.net. And there's those code help sites for coding and the W4C sites for HTML, CSS, etc. It's not rocket science. You just need a good memory for details. Code is all details, all details!

There are multiple members of the SMF dev team, past and present, in this topic

[Just Another Member]

There are multiple members of the SMF dev team, past and present, in this topic

That's great! I hope they like a girl with a high voltage sense of humor and probably deficient in any form of modesty!

Maybe I'll come write your code for you people when you get too old for coding.

No, seriously, you should be proud of me because I learned most of my coding from YOU and from reading your code. I wrote my own general purpose CDS using methods I learned in understanding and modifying your code when I wanted my forum to be different than the mainstream SMF code. In a way you can think of it as that you got forked by Suzy!

I hope it was as good for you as it has been for me. Now that we're here in one topic I can express my appreciation for the things that I learned from you! All at the same time! Woo hoo!

I particularly like your idea which I have called "sentinels" where you define('WHATEVER', true); and then in each included file you if (!defined('WHATEVER')) die();. Since that define is only in my index file it's impossible to execute other files unless a hacker can place files on your site. No way to communicate a DEFINE by any external means. You know what they say, if I can put a file on your site I own your site. Nobody can read my files or your files unless they come in by the front door! I too rewrite all accesses that every access goes through the index. My index does three things: that DEFINE(), it defines the 4 parameters necessary to login to a database, and then it includes my main.php where the real code starts. (Oh it includes declaration of $context[] plus capturing initial UNIX time and stuff like $context['page_loads'] (so I can have an optional footer including all pages loaded and all SQL queries). The important part is that I can have 1, 2 or a dozen websites running the same code.

I'm using your concept of one file does all the calculations and then includes a template that translates the data into HTML etc. I'm not using the language files because my sites are all English but I'd use your technique for multilingual if I wanted. Actually my language files are separate but I have only $txt[] for English. I could expand to multilingual if I wanted to.

I remember the funny lines where you used to search to insert your mod's hook into the code before you went to integration hooks, all the funny sayings made me laugh!

I remember that Sleepy is one of the nicest guys here and rarely has a disparaging word, Kindred cuts both ways but is usually nice. Arantor had a different name, I forgot what it was, but he like fine wine he has improved with age and he's much nicer now. I'm sorry to remember that some of your staff are on power trips. I fire power trippers from my team but I just deal with them on other sites like yours. (It's hard to hire free labor.) I'm never the one to be first to go off topic but when a staffer goes off topic I figure the topic is game.

You developers here, you taught me how to code! I learned your methods, I never copied any lines of your code (okay I have the same variable $context[] but it has my stuff not yours). I put all the debugging tools in my code too, and if I turn it on I can see all the page accesses, SQL queries, timing data on all. Except for one stupid comp sci class in college I learned everything I know about coding starting with learning SMF's code base.

I write my own mods when I can't find mods you have that do the job for me. My mod squad has just one person and my mods are always approved! I'm thinking of submitting just one mod and get it on your chart just so you know I'm not FOS.

I'm a girl who loves her fun, I enjoy writing code — particularly in a world where most code is written by men — I hold my own at my contract IT job even if it's only part time and only a few other grrls on the team. Corporate apps are boring. A few more years and I'll have my own IT business.

And I owe it to you all. So no, I don't mind if there are devs in my topic. I'm glad you are here so I can personally thank you! When you get tired of writing code maybe I'll join your team along with the others of my generation and take SMF to ever greater success.

So Arantor, I'm not bothered by devs or SMF management reading my posts, and I'm glad that you are a better man than you used to be the last time I was on the site some years ago. You're a likeable guy now and I'll be happy to be friends with you if you wanna be friends with me. Just call me Suzy!

[Irisado]

Random chit chat has been moved somewhere more suitable: https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=557966.0.  Let's keep this topic for support issues only please.  In addition, Susan, please avoid making three or four consecutive posts from now on and use the insert quote option instead.  I've merged a whole bunch of sequential posts to clean this topic up somewhat.

[Just Another Member]

I'm pleased to see this topic cleaned up today, I was going to request that somebody please delete the off topic stuff. Delete, move, makes no difference. The off-topic discussion had come to a conclusion and I had no further comments to add.

I'm sorry but I am unaware of any insert quote function. Is that something new since 2.0.12? Is there a topic that explains how to use it? I had been looking for a multi-quote feature but found none.


I ended up restoring my mod packages to the Packages directory and backed up my log_packages table for safe keeping. Then to get a list of active packages I discovered the easiest way was to search for member_removed = 0. I download that and pasted it into a spreadsheet to get a list of my previously active packages. Unfortunately the mod packages showed in the Browse Packages list but not in the Installed Packages list. I had wanted to do a screen capture on the Installed Packages list to get an idea what order to reinstall my mods in.

A little bit of sleuthing Packages.php and Subs-Package.php showed me that when installed.list is empty SMF marks ALL packages as install_state = 0 (not installed). The Package Manager writes the UNIX date in that file whenever it performs an action and mine was empty.

I ran a quick query:

Code Select Expand

UPDATE `smf_log_packages` SET `install_state` = '1' WHERE `id_member_removed` = '0';

This resulted in the display that I wanted to shoot, to give me some sort of clue which order the packages had been most recently installed in. When I am ready to start reinstallation of packages I prefer to install the most stable ones first, and any that may be subject to further tweaking last, to avoid interactions with earlier packages which on occasion occur.

So at the present time I have all my mod packages uploaded and ready to install when the time is right, and as much documentation as can be extracted from the old database regarding the most recent mod package configuration.

I began reading fix_packages.php but had so little sleep that the lines were blurring and I decided to report in then take a break. I installed a test forum and a few packages on it and tried fix_packages.php but didn't get much of a feel what it actually does. I see that it removes hooks but I've already done that and in fact ran the same query as in the code. I'm having difficulty understanding what additional functionality it adds or has to offer in my situation. I'l read the code again after a rest and maybe it will be clearer. Is there any write-up available describing what it does?

I'm still deciding whether to run fix_packages.php or just truncate the log_packages table and be done with it. (My integration hooks are long gone.) If anybody has any suggestions I where can find more about fix_packages.php I'll appreciate a link.

So I'm going to take a break and return to this after I'm rested. I still know what more there is to accomplish since I already removed all the integration hooks. The log_packages table has no further significance in the new installation and I can see no reason to not just truncate it and then start installing my mod packages.

I'll return to the topic after I've rested and then studied fix_packages.php a bit more. Perhaps there will be further replies in this help topic. Thanks again everybody who has been helping!

[Arantor]

The quote feature is where you press the quote button either to the quick reply box or from the full reply box and it inserts the quote for you. It's been there since 1.1 or possibly 1.0, I don't remember any more.

[Just Another Member]

I hadn't realized that. My forum has been down for several months and have been on only vBulletin and XenForo forums, plus one that is either modified vB or custom. It's just another thing I forgot while I wasn't interested in operating forums. Luckily I've remembered the admin panel just fine.

Thank you for the explanation and I'll use it in the future. In a way SMF's method makes a lot more sense than muti-post buttons.

[Just Another Member]

I'm trying to figure out just exactly what the goal is here. I was up most of the night and did a bunch on my forum, now I'm just numb and doubt I'll get any more done today. It always helps me when I am stuck to restate the problem so here it is.

I'm restoring a forum with just the database, SMF 2.0.12 files lost, currently using fresh, unmodified 2.0.15 files. I have uploaded all my latest mod packages into the Packages directory, and have edited my log_packages to indicate all the mods that were installed when I took my forum down early April.

I think to myself just what is a mod package, in terms of what it does.

1. It alters your database, usually by adding settings and data
2. It alters your code base modifying files and adding other files
3. Newer mods install integration hooks and add files, and modify files when necessary
4. Important to note that not only are there default DB settings but also my old configurations

Now the problem is that while I have all the mod packages and 100% certain I have the right ones, I have a virgin 2.0.15 code base. (I found some avatars and attachment but not any of my modified old code.)

So right off I know the code base is virgin and pure. It's just an unzip of a fresh install except install.php gone and I copied my old Settings. php, configured my database for the new server.

I don't see any point in doing anything at all to the existing code base. For all intents and purposes it's just a plain 2.0.15 installation with no mods.

I deleted the integration hooks yesterday so SMF is not calling the mod files that aren't there. Any files my mods changed are not changed. Any files my mods add haven't been added because I haven't installed any mods.

Let's consider the database changes my mods made. There were default settings I added, and there were settings that I populated while adding my mods. One example, a post tagging mod where each forum section has a tag on each line in the topic list. If I deleted them I'd have to re-enter them. I have plenty of other mods that are configurable and my database has the configuration I wanted. I can't think of one single reason to change the database. It's now configured for my new domain, the file permissions are all right.

What else is there to change? It seems to me that all I really need to do is backup the code base and backup the database, just so I can get back to this state if I want to. It is now the closest I can get to the old forum as I am able.

Once I've backed up a baseline, just what else is there to do except install the mod packages?k

It looks to me line all I need to do is truncate the log_packages table, backup the current configuration, install the mods, and start getting ready to re-launch my forum.


This is my question for the nice people who have been helping me. Why do I need to run fix_packages.php? What exactly will it help me with or protect me from other than what I have already done? It's supposed to make sure that ... what?

If I left anything out except just getting on with developing my site, please tell me what it is. Thanks!

I would be happy to close this topic as solved if only I could get a few opinions on my post immediately preceding this one.

I hate to move on and just do what I described above (back it up and install my mods and move on) but I know that I should not ignore advice to the contrary without fully understanding the reasons for the folks who recommended "just run the script" had. In fact at this point running the script might be harmful.

I just can't understand what I would have to gain at this point by running the script, as opposed to just truncating the log_packages, backup and move on. I'm anxious in wanting to settle the issue and move on.

Posts merged.  Please wait at least 24 hours before bumping support topics - Iris.