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Author Topic: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table  (Read 5536 times)

Offline backend

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Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« on: May 06, 2018, 03:06:51 AM »
Visited my forum few days ago to find it down worth the following message :

“smf_messages' is marked as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed”

I tried repairing it in phpmyadmin and I wasn’t able to


Anyone how else I can fix this? Better yet, what is the function of this table and can I simply get a new version of this table created and if so , how....

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 03:09:40 AM »
It stores all your forum's posts, so you may be facing a situation where you need to restore a backup. Hope you have one.
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Offline Illori

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 06:11:23 AM »
have you asked your host if they can repair the table? they may have other ways that you dont have access to.

Offline shawnb61

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 12:20:25 PM »
You can repair tables in phpmyadmin also.

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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 03:23:28 PM »
I called GoDaddy and after an hour of back and fourth, they tell me they don't have any other backup of my forum other than one from Feb 4, 2018!!!! They said my DB doesn't allow direct access, so no backups were being made. Such crap!!!!!

So I have a backup of this corrupt table (Backup_smf_messages) - is there an easy way to copy its content to smf_messages?

Offline Illori

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2018, 03:36:11 PM »
do you know when that backup was made? it is possible it was made when you were upgrading from one version of SMF to another, if so that version of the table would need to be upgraded and would be missing a lot of data.

as a host they should have FULL access of everything on the server including the database. this is a good time for you to find a new host that does include regular backup's.

Offline HDB

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 07:42:25 PM »
Sorry to hear that you are having problems. Some hosts do backups as part of their hosting package but not GoDaddy. They sell a backup service. GoDaddy sells a service from Drop My Site. You will also see that you can do manual backups yourself in cPanel or you can schedule a cron job in cPanel for automatic scheduled backups of your database.

I hope you can fix your current DB.

Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 09:59:22 PM »
Hi guys,

So I was able to restore from a backup that GoDaddy. But here is the problem: after I restore, every couple of days, the DB will crash again with the same error message:

"“smf_messages' is marked as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed”"

I called the host and spent close to half an hour trying to see what the problem is, and they couldn't find anything or what is causing this.

I am really at a loss. I have lost months worth of posts on my forum due to this error message and having to restore every couple of days. Heck I even gave up on it at times, as I can't keep doing this.

Is there something specific I should look for?
Anyway to ensure I don't get this error message?


I really appreciate any help out there.

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 10:04:41 PM »
Table corrupted happens if a server is restarted suddenly or just if a mysql has an unexpected issue. if it happens often it is a database server issue.
You can maybe try switching to Innodb for the smf_messages tab which is a different mysql engine

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Offline GigaWatt

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 11:15:17 PM »
If the forum is not too big, try temporarily using a free host, see if the same thing starts happening again... which I seriously doubt after some of the posts I've read about GoDaddy on this forum.
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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2018, 02:57:58 PM »
Table corrupted happens if a server is restarted suddenly or just if a mysql has an unexpected issue. if it happens often it is a database server issue.
You can maybe try switching to Innodb for the smf_messages tab which is a different mysql engine



How would I switch to Innodb?

I have now restored the DB some 6 times and it keeps crashing after 3 days or so. I have given up on trying to restore this again because it will just crash again. And support is being useless.

At the very least, am trying to determine if the problem is with my DB (abo out 1 GB) or something on their side. If the server is being restarted, is that something that would lead to this??? And why would they restart the same server over and over like this , am sssumig there are others on this server that would get affected too.

Offline GigaWatt

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2018, 04:50:18 PM »
Try this.

Admin --> Maintenance --> Routine --> Find and repair any errors --> Run task now

Admin --> Maintenance --> Database --> Optimize all tables --> Run task now

Admin --> Maintenance --> Routine --> Empty the file cache --> Run task now
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Offline Gazmanafc

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2018, 07:52:51 PM »
I have now restored the DB some 6 times and it keeps crashing after 3 days or so. I have given up on trying to restore this again because it will just crash again. And support is being useless.

At the very least, am trying to determine if the problem is with my DB (abo out 1 GB) or something on their side. If the server is being restarted, is that something that would lead to this??? And why would they restart the same server over and over like this , am sssumig there are others on this server that would get affected too.


If anything if the issues recur that often, my recommendation at this point in time is to consider moving hosts.
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Offline shawnb61

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2018, 08:27:23 PM »
If anything if the issues recur that often, my recommendation at this point in time is to consider moving hosts.
+1

Although InnoDB is known to be more stable & crash-resistant, you should also know that it doesn't like getting its tables moved around.  Export/Import is the proper way to relocate InnoDB tables.  If the files are moved via a filesystem-level move or restore, there is an ugly process needed to recover the InnoDB tables.  I'd be nervous that GoDaddy moves them on you unannounced...   

That said, to directly answer your question...  To convert a table to InnoDB, you can either alter a table's engine directly in phpMyAdmin or use SQL to do so.  In phpMyAdmin, pull up the table to view its structure, click on Operations & under Table Options you will see Storage Engine: MyISAM.  You can change it to InnoDB there. 

Alternatively, you can use SQL to do so:
Code: [Select]
ALTER TABLE my_table ENGINE = InnoDB;
I would do all tables.  (My forum is all InnoDB.)   I don't think it does you much good to have messages InnoDB but boards & topics not InnoDB... 
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Offline Kindred

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 08:52:59 AM »
IIRC there is a reason why we do not use InnoDB for all tables to start with...


backend...   you don't normally have to restore the database. Usually, you can go in via phpmyadmin and repair the crashed table by itself.
However, regular crashes like that indicate a larger problem with the host and their setup.
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Offline shawnb61

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2018, 09:10:36 AM »
InnoDB is preferred over MyISAM.    FYI, 2.1 installs will use InnoDB on all tables.   
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Offline Kindred

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2018, 09:39:07 AM »
Quote
InnoDB has row-level locking, MyISAM can only do full table-level locking. InnoDB has better crash recovery. MyISAM has FULLTEXT search indexes, InnoDB did not until MySQL 5.6 (Feb 2013). InnoDB implements transactions, foreign keys and relationship constraints, MyISAM does not

Ah...   that third sentence is why we never did a switch...

As long as we still support (prior to) MySQL 5.6, the lack of fulltext search indexes might be an issue.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 09:30:36 AM by Kindred »
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Offline shawnb61

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2018, 10:51:40 AM »
Interesting...  I've always used custom indexes, so I've never seen an issue in 2.x or 2.1. 
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Offline Arantor

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2018, 09:01:04 AM »
Seeing that fulltext is not set by default, I think you’d be safe to run with it.
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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2018, 02:36:10 AM »
never had a table crash since moving to InnoDB.

haven't looked back and infrequent DB backups are wonderful.

easy conversion also.
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Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2018, 06:48:06 AM »
As I understand it, MyISAM tables are bound to crash or corrupt at some point. So InnoDB is the wiser choice for forums really.
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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2018, 11:21:29 PM »
Looks like I finally figured out what the issue is: my DB has exceeded the limit set by the host, so my website forum keeps crashing.

My DB shows just over 1 GB on PHPMyAdmin. Specifically, my smf_messages is about 8126 MB.

-Wondering what are some effective ways to reduce it? I have gone ahead and deleted some big old threads
-Also, can I remove backup_smf_messages ?
-Last, anyway I can find/sort posts in PHPMyAdmin by size?

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2018, 11:25:04 PM »
If you have backup_ tables, they are most likely from a large update you have done at some point and can be removed if everything has been working OK since.

You are facing a situation where trimming down contents will probably only delay the inevitable though, and you will have to start thinking of other options (getting a larger DB limit, or switch hosts).
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Offline Kindred

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2018, 08:59:29 AM »
egads...   i have a forum whose database is close to 3 gigs...

get a new host!! !!!
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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2018, 11:12:45 PM »
Optimize tables and empty out logs, see how much that reduces the size of the database.
"This is really a generic concept about human thinking - when faced with large tasks we're naturally inclined to try to break them down into a bunch of smaller tasks that together make up the whole."

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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2018, 08:20:22 PM »
Hi guys, sorry to bump this old topic again, but problem persists till now:

I have been able to restore from backup, but as I start working on the DB to clean it and reduce the size, it ends up crashing again. In other words, they want me to reduce the size, but when I start doing so, it ends up crashing. So how the hell will I be able to do this? Whether I am working on the forum itself or in phpmyadmin, it eventually crashes after I have done some modification to the SMF_Messages table. For example, if I attempt to to do any of the following functions, it ends up crashing:

Check table 
Analyze table
Repair table
Optimize table


i am attaching a screenshot of what the table looks like, if you guys can see anything odd about it?

« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:41:02 PM by backend »

Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2018, 08:22:35 PM »
Optimize tables and empty out logs, see how much that reduces the size of the database.

Thank you:

-I have emptied out the logs
-For optimising the table, I have tried that and it crashes. Basically, anytime I try to do something to this table in question, it ends up crashing, and then I have to restore and start from scratch. In fact, here is the message I get when I try to optimize the table in question (smf_messages)


myisam_sort_buffer_size is too small
Operation failed

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2018, 08:30:32 PM »
That's abnormal. You mentioned they block the r/w to the database at a certain limit. Maybe, just a theory, it's trying to create a temporary table and then the aggressive hard limit kicks in (the temporary table makes it cross the maximum usage they had set OR uses more RAM than you're allowed to use at once), suddenly aborts the operation and poof goes your table. (Or maybe they have a execution limit set rather agressively.) So again it could revolve back to the settings of the host causing your issues. That, or there's some serious corruption in there somewhere, but I've personally never seen that manifest itself in this way.

You could try to download a copy of the database to your own device, load it in to an application that can work with it and do whatever it is you want to do in there.
If it's deleting messages manually in the db, you may be better off simply using the prune function in the admin panel? Just a thought.
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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2018, 03:37:23 AM »
yeah, InnoDB is the way to go but the restore locks rows and takes ages. if running Linux then use the "pv" command (pipe viewer).

here is my conversion script that will need some adjusting:

Code: [Select]
mysql -u dbuser -pdbpass smf209 -e "show table status where Engine='MyISAM';" | awk 'NR>1 { print "ALTER TABLE "$1" ENGINE = InnoDB;" }' | mysql -u dbuser -pdbpass smf209
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2018, 05:25:35 PM »
If you have a good database backup, move to a better host.  It'll be a lot less work than trying to straighten out this mess on GoDaddy, and doesn't cost much.  Your time must be worth something to you.


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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2018, 09:25:35 PM »
move to a better host.  It'll be a lot less work than trying to straighten out this mess on GoDaddy,

Good advice.
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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2018, 01:15:57 PM »
So after so many tries and much appreciated help from GigaWatt, I am getting closer to hopefully getting things back on track.

Here is what I did:

-Installed a fresh copy (not an upgrade) - on a new directory (just to test things) - I installed version 2.0.13 just to ensure it is compatible with my PHP version (5.0)
-I found some older DB backup that was smaller in size, so I restored it. But now I am getting a new error message:

"unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list'"

Did some research on this and it appears to do with upgrading, but like I mentioned, I am trying to install a fresh copy here (2.0.13)


Any idea what this could mean in the context of how I am trying to fix this?


Here is my PHPinfo file > http://assyrianvoice.net/smftest/phpinfo.php


Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2018, 09:23:10 PM »
Cripes, I've seen a number of GoDaddy servers running php 5.3, but 5.2?  Went eol almost 8 years ago. :P

Which SMF version is the database?

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2018, 09:24:55 PM »
So after so many tries and much appreciated help from GigaWatt, I am getting closer to hopefully getting things back on track.

Here is what I did:

-Installed a fresh copy (not an upgrade) - on a new directory (just to test things) - I installed version 2.0.13 just to ensure it is compatible with my PHP version (5.0)
-I found some older DB backup that was smaller in size, so I restored it. But now I am getting a new error message:

"unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list'"

Did some research on this and it appears to do with upgrading, but like I mentioned, I am trying to install a fresh copy here (2.0.13)


Any idea what this could mean in the context of how I am trying to fix this?


Here is my PHPinfo file > http://assyrianvoice.net/smftest/phpinfo.php


If you want to use a fresh copy don't restore the database. If you restore you will need to run the large upgrade package
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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2018, 08:10:02 PM »
I am making slow progress on this, as I keep getting different errors and it is taking me time to research and try to fix things.

Latest:  I created a new temporary forum and uploaded the upgrade files.

Now trying to run the Upgrade.php file and I am getting the following error:

Updating Your SMF Installation!
Thank you for choosing to upgrade to SMF 2.1 Beta 3. All files appear to be in place, and we're ready to proceed.
Your FTP connection information
The upgrader can fix any issues with file permissions to make upgrading as simple as possible. Simply enter your connection information below or alternatively click here for a list of files which need to be changed.

The following error was encountered when trying to connect:

Invalid Server



I know I am putting my correct FTP information as follows, but it is still not accepting it:





The address (often localhost) and port for your FTP server: www.Mysite.com
Username: my ftp user ID
Password:   Password......
Install Path: /home/content/42/9269142/html/myforum




Offline Kindred

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2018, 10:25:05 PM »
First and foremost, why are you trying to use the beta version?
Second, why would you use beta3? That is extremely outdated.


Third, if you insist on doing It, use beta4 and make sure the permissions are correct to begin with and you won’t need the ftp info
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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2018, 12:01:33 PM »
First and foremost, why are you trying to use the beta version?
Second, why would you use beta3? That is extremely outdated.


Third, if you insist on doing It, use beta4 and make sure the permissions are correct to begin with and you won’t need the ftp info


Thanks for the reply. To answer your question, I am using that because that is the only upgrade option I see here: https://download.simplemachines.org/

Where else am I supposed to look?

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2018, 12:14:44 PM »
Beta versions should be taken from GitHub where the development happens - beta 3 is over a year old, with 'beta 4' being developed since.
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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2018, 12:35:33 PM »
Beta versions should be taken from GitHub where the development happens - beta 3 is over a year old, with 'beta 4' being developed since.

Curious why the newest version is not here on SMF, as it  may create confusion about what is the latest version available,

Offline Tonyvic

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2018, 01:03:04 PM »
Quote
I am using that because that is the only upgrade option I see here: https://download.simplemachines.org/
The 'Full Install' and 'Large Upgrade' for 2.0.15 are both on that page.
 

Offline Kindred

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2018, 03:24:27 PM »
Well, because making an official release is not simple...   and, as the page clearly states, beta versions should not be used in production, nor should they be used unless you understand technical and debugging processes.

2.0.15 is the current release in the main supported branch.
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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2018, 03:29:43 PM »
Beta versions should be taken from GitHub where the development happens - beta 3 is over a year old, with 'beta 4' being developed since.

Curious why the newest version is not here on SMF, as it  may create confusion about what is the latest version available,

Because it changes literally nearly every day...
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Offline backend

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2018, 07:53:02 PM »
thanks guys, i ended up using the 2.0.15 Large Upgrade (https://download.simplemachines.org/index.php?thanks;filename=smf_2-0-15_upgrade.zip)

Now having another issue with the update:

"Server has not responded for 30 seconds. It may be worth waiting a little longer or otherwise please click here to try this step again"[/b}

And this has been for hours and it is still stuck on "Executing: "Updating and creating indexes..." (1 of 19 - of this script)"




Offline Illori

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2018, 08:04:22 PM »
there are no database changes since SMF 2.0 was released, you dont need to run the upgrade script. also it is recommend to use the package manager patches to upgrade if you are already on some sub version of SMF 2.0.

if you did use the large upgrade package that means you have uninstalled maybe even partially uninstalled your mods and may need to reinstall them when you are done.

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2018, 08:07:49 PM »
there are no database changes since SMF 2.0 was released, you dont need to run the upgrade script. also it is recommend to use the package manager patches to upgrade if you are already on some sub version of SMF 2.0.

if you did use the large upgrade package that means you have uninstalled maybe even partially uninstalled your mods and may need to reinstall them when you are done.

To make a long story short, assuming you didn't follow this thread from the beginning (Gosh, even I forgot some of the details lol) , we had to upgrade because we were having issues and I kept getting errors. One of which was the following : "Unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list'"

After some research, I found out it had to do with running old files/DB and needed to upgrade to new version of PHP which I did.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 08:18:08 PM by backend »

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2018, 01:17:44 AM »
there are no database changes since SMF 2.0 was released, you dont need to run the upgrade script. also it is recommend to use the package manager patches to upgrade if you are already on some sub version of SMF 2.0.

if you did use the large upgrade package that means you have uninstalled maybe even partially uninstalled your mods and may need to reinstall them when you are done.

To make a long story short, assuming you didn't follow this thread from the beginning (Gosh, even I forgot some of the details lol) , we had to upgrade because we were having issues and I kept getting errors. One of which was the following : "Unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list'"

After some research, I found out it had to do with running old files/DB and needed to upgrade to new version of PHP which I did.



If I don't upgrade, I am getting '"Unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list'"'

And I do try to upgrade, I am stuck at 14% and mot moving. Been trying it for days.

If I could get over '"Unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list'" without having to upgrade, would be a lot better.



Any advise?


Offline SpacePhoenix

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2018, 02:04:57 AM »
And I do try to upgrade, I am stuck at 14% and mot moving. Been trying it for days.
When it gets stuck at 14% are there any errors in either the PHP or MySQL error logs?

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2018, 04:09:25 PM »
If I could get over '"Unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list'" without having to upgrade, would be a lot better.

Well, you can't.  A 1.1 database will not work in 2.0.15 install.  Upgrade will sometimes fail if you're on a really crappy server.  I've had to upgrade several forums by importing db to test install on my host, upgrade, import upgraded db to original forum.

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2019, 11:18:02 PM »
Happy new year everyone. Been busy last couple of weeks with the holidays so haven't been able to work on this.

I am running the upgrade again and I am stuck at 14%, with the following error message:

"Executing upgrade script 1 of 2.
Executing: "Updating and creating indexes..." (1 of 19 - of this script)

!!Error!
Server has not responded for 30 seconds. It may be worth waiting a little longer or otherwise please click here to try this step again"


I have run this a million times and it keeps getting stuck at the same percentage, so there is clearly something wrong that is preventing this from progressing.


Please advise!


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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2019, 01:29:48 AM »
That error is a bit misleading, as it doesn't actually mean the script has stopped. Allow it some time, and it will try to continue automatically.
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2019, 04:38:47 PM »
Just reread this topic, still on GoDaddy?  That's your biggest problem right now.  Are you trying to upgrade a 1.1 datrabase to 2.0?  Is the 1.1 database currently running in a 1.1 install?  Have you dropped the backup tables?


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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #51 on: Yesterday at 05:36:55 PM »
Just reread this topic, still on GoDaddy?  That's your biggest problem right now.  Are you trying to upgrade a 1.1 datrabase to 2.0?  Is the 1.1 database currently running in a 1.1 install?  Have you dropped the backup tables?



Frankly, as much as GoDaddy is hated here (and I am not here to defend it) I think it is not a good idea to attack it when people are trying to get help. I noticed this being a common theme here. It is not easy to just pick up and leave. Some people have tens of different domains and websites hosted with them.


And to answer your question, yes that is what I am doing.

Offline Arantor

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 05:40:48 PM »
I guess you've not had to recover sites where GoDaddy's incompetence has been the sole cause of a forum being damaged, sometimes almost beyond repair.
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 08:24:55 PM »
Nothing personal against GoDaddy, it's just that they're a terrible host.  I've worked on a number of forums that were trashed for no other reason than their gross stupidity.  I've moved several forums off GD to other hosts, and have regulars who remain there.  If you are concientious (sp?) about maintaining your forum, and do regular backups, you can get by with them, but there are many hosts in same price range that offer better packages and much better support.  As for upgrades, I've done two or three that could not be run on GD, had to import db dump into test install on my server, upgrade there, then move it back to GD.  This should never be necessary on any reasonably competent host.

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Re: Whole forum is down due to a corrupt table
« Reply #54 on: Today at 01:24:47 AM »
Sad truth is that GoDaddy is the definition of overseller, and a bad one at that, and while that might not be a problem for static sites, it can fast become a major issue with forums.
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