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Author Topic: 2.1 Production Question  (Read 1749 times)

Offline njtweb

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2.1 Production Question
« on: June 19, 2018, 02:02:56 PM »
Although there is no immediate or speculated release date. If and when 2.1 does get gold approval, what is the case for expectation if 2.0.15 users with a number of mods want to upgrade? As I understand it from the various posts here, most, if not all of the older unsupported mods which haven't been touched for years, (but still work on 2.0.15) won't work in 2.1. Are any devs allowed to resurrect older mods to extend support so they work? I myself have a 35 mods, some of which have been built into 2.1 but many aren't developed to work with it at all.

1.   External and NoFollow All Links   1.0.0     
2.   Board Icons   1.0     
3.   Drop Guest Email Requirement In Posting   1.0.1     
4.   SMF Trader System   1.7     
5.   Embedded Poll Viewer BBC   1.0     
6.   SMF Classifieds   4.0.13     
7.   Image Upload   1.0.0   
8.   SMF Post Prefix   2.0.3     
9.   Hide ip stuff for users   1.05     
10.   Post and PM Inline Attachments   6.13     
11.   Child_boards_below_topics   1.0   
12.   Tidy Child Boards   2.0     
13.   Simple Audio Video Embedder   4.5     
14.   AdSense Mod   1.0     
15.   ENotify   3.0     
16.   Separate Replies and Views Column   1.9.2     
17.   Yet Another Global Announcements Mod   2.7.5     
18.   More Spiders   1.2     
19.   Linked Words   1.0     
20.   Add Facebook Like, Tweet, and Google +1   1.0.3a     
21.   TinyPortal   1.5.0     
22.   404 on Missing Topics/Boards   2.1     
23.   Share This Topic   4.1.2     
24.   Yarex 2 smiley set   2.0.0.1     
25.   Recent Topics On Board Index   1.03     
26.   SMF 2.0.15 Update   1.0     
27.   Optimus   1.9.7.3     
28.   Effectively Remove SMF Logo   2.0     
29.   PDF Tag   1.2     
30.   SMF Likes Plus   1.5     
31.   Personalized BBC   1.92     
32.   Reply Button In Every Post   1.0     
33.   Advanced Recent Posts   1.1.1     
34.   reCAPTCHA for SMF   1.0.0     
35.   Responsive Curve   1.0.0

Offline Suki

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2018, 02:13:20 PM »
Mods that only uses hooks will mostly be compatible with 2.1, except for any theme-related code. Generally, the more hooks you use, the easier it will be to update said mod to 2.1.

If a mod has a permissive license then yes, that mod can be updated but it largely depends on what kind of license the mod uses.

All of my mods, at least the most popular ones are already ported to 2.1 or can be installed in a 2.1 forum without issues.
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Offline vbgamer45

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2018, 02:22:05 PM »
I will update most of my mods to 2.1 once it goes to RC stage. All my paid mods for sure.
A couple I do have 2.1 support for such as the gallery,downloads,ezportal and a few others.
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Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 02:29:14 PM »
Mods that only uses hooks will mostly be compatible with 2.1, except for any theme-related code. Generally, the more hooks you use, the easier it will be to update said mod to 2.1.

If a mod has a permissive license then yes, that mod can be updated but it largely depends on what kind of license the mod uses.

All of my mods, at least the most popular ones are already ported to 2.1 or can be installed in a 2.1 forum without issues.

I don't know what hooks means but I have had 4 custom mods made for me which I've told use hooks. One of them you made for me 3 years ago which is a pretty big and involved mod, (Linked Words 1.0). You made another very involved custom voting mod for me to rate hockey fights around the same length of time ago but that serves no purpose for me on my current site.

@Vbgamer45. Thank you, I have noticed you pretty much keep everything up to date.

Offline ART90

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 03:35:39 PM »
Hi, how it looks new version 2.1? Is there a release date already scheduled?
I mean no beta but full release.

Thanks

Offline vbgamer45

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 03:39:20 PM »
No release date set. But you can track the progress on github.
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Offline GigaWatt

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 04:20:08 PM »
@njtweb: Firefox went through the same transition. For those who use Chrome or Chrome-based browsers, this is no big deal, but for those who liked to customize their browsers and used Firefox because of it's excellent extension system, this was big deal. They either accepted the reality, Mozilla is no longer going to support the XUL extension system, or they switched browsers (mostly Pale Moon or, for those who are still on XP, there is a Pale Moon fork named Mypal, I use it in my workshop rig that's still on XP... I'm just too lazy to format and reinstall everything). It's your choice whether you're going to stick to the platform or not.

PS: This is one of the reasons I decided not to make the same mistake as the previous admin of my forum who installed 50 or so mods on the forum, no to mention a lot of manual customization, and then I found myself wondering "why is upgrading SMF so hard :'("... ::). The short answer is, don't over modify your forum or you're bound to run into problems when upgrading to a new major version.
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Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 04:39:48 PM »
@njtweb: Firefox went through the same transition. For those who use Chrome or Chrome-based browsers, this is no big deal, but for those who liked to customize their browsers and used Firefox because of it's excellent extension system, this was big deal. They either accepted the reality, Mozilla is no longer going to support the XUL extension system, or they switched browsers (mostly Pale Moon or, for those who are still on XP, there is a Pale Moon fork named Mypal, I use it in my workshop rig that's still on XP... I'm just too lazy to format and reinstall everything). It's your choice whether you're going to stick to the platform or not.

PS: This is one of the reasons I decided not to make the same mistake as the previous admin of my forum who installed 50 or so mods on the forum, no to mention a lot of manual customization, and then I found myself wondering "why is upgrading SMF so hard :'("... ::). The short answer is, don't over modify your forum or you're bound to run into problems when upgrading to a new major version.

All of that makes sense, but the reason why I have mods is because they provide the functionality I need in order to effectively provide the traffic to my site the service they require. I am a novice with HTML, I know enough to do menial things but I have no advanced knowledge to customize my SMF site and zero knowledge with PHP, Javascript or anything else. So basically I depend on the mods, and the developers who can make customized mods to do the thing necessary functions that aren't available in the modifications portal.

Offline GigaWatt

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 06:17:58 PM »
Considering that all of the staff, including the users that made all of the mods, are volunteers and have no financial gain from their work, these problems will appear, sooner or later. You can deal with them in one of several ways. Stick to the platform and find replacements for most of the mods you're using. Stick to the platform and pay someone to develop the mods you would be using in your new install (2.1). Stick to the platform and learn how to do it yourself (there is always a helping hand in this forum, you just have to show initiative). Abandon the platform and opt for a different one. Meanwhile, consider that the solution you're going to find, in any scenario, will be far from perfect and will probably differ from your previous web solution (SMF 2.0.x). That's just how things are. Software develops, newer versions replace older ones... it's just how things are.
"This is really a generic concept about human thinking - when faced with large tasks we're naturally inclined to try to break them down into a bunch of smaller tasks that together make up the whole."

"A 500 error loosely translates to the webserver saying, "WTF?"..."

Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 08:43:54 AM »
Considering that all of the staff, including the users that made all of the mods, are volunteers and have no financial gain from their work, these problems will appear, sooner or later. Yep, and I greatly appreciate them. Many have been given donations

You can deal with them in one of several ways. Stick to the platform and find replacements for most of the mods you're using. Again, back to the customizing part, I don't have enough knowledge to be able to determine what and where I can get replacement features and functions except for here and the many developers who have their own sites and only host their mods there.

Stick to the platform and pay someone to develop the mods you would be using in your new install (2.1). My hope is that all or most that I have will be transitional to the newer platform, that is of course whenever it becomes approved for production. I believe it's been in beta stage for more than 5 years, I could be wrong.

Stick to the platform and learn how to do it yourself (there is always a helping hand in this forum, you just have to show initiative). No chance, I'm in my 40's. That would be like trying to learn 5 different languages simultaneously.

Abandon the platform and opt for a different one. I've tried others. I used a hacked version of vBulletin for a few sites back in 2005, then changed to phpbb until around 2012 when I shut the sites down. I went to Wordpress and SMF together with a new site in 2013 and then shut that down in 2016. This site I currently have is exclusively SMF, nothing else and I do plan on it being around for a while since I found a particular need a lot of people want for traveling hockey families. I have no plans or interest to use any other BB script.

Meanwhile, consider that the solution you're going to find, in any scenario, will be far from perfect and will probably differ from your previous web solution (SMF 2.0.x). That's just how things are. Software develops, newer versions replace older ones... it's just how things are. I'll probably just continue to pay anybody here who's interested in doing customization's for me. Several have benefited from me as I have them over the past 4 years for various jobs I've had done. But ultimately like I have said already, My hope is that the mods I have are transitional or at the worst only need small changes to function in 2.1.

That's pretty much where I'm at.

Offline Justyne

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 09:31:44 AM »
To be fair your list doesn’t look, like it has any big pieces of functionality - but rather minor tweaks. Might just take some getting used to 2.1 and you’ll find you don’t need all of these.
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Offline Suki

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 11:29:34 AM »
Great efforts have been put to make mods for 2.0 compatible with 2.1, in terms of backend at least. Front end needed a face-lift and unfortunately mod compatibility suffered the most.

You don't actually need to learn to do customizations yourself but it wouldn't hurt to keep a list/log of all the changes you apply, how and when. This way you can re-apply them more easily or at least you can identify which edits needs to be re-done.
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Offline GigaWatt

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 11:56:18 AM »
Stick to the platform and learn how to do it yourself (there is always a helping hand in this forum, you just have to show initiative). No chance, I'm in my 40's. That would be like trying to learn 5 different languages simultaneously.

I'm in my 30's and I'm still learning.

Nobody said that it had to be all at once, I'm taking it one step at a time, you could do the same.

BTW, I found some great PHP tutorials on this forum ;).

https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?board=41.0

They may be outdated, but the basic concept is still the same ;). And the comments by other members are also helpful ;).

Meanwhile, consider that the solution you're going to find, in any scenario, will be far from perfect and will probably differ from your previous web solution (SMF 2.0.x). That's just how things are. Software develops, newer versions replace older ones... it's just how things are. I'll probably just continue to pay anybody here who's interested in doing customization's for me. Several have benefited from me as I have them over the past 4 years for various jobs I've had done. But ultimately like I have said already, My hope is that the mods I have are transitional or at the worst only need small changes to function in 2.1.

That's also a valid choice ;). As I can see, you've got the AdSense mod installed, so your site should produce some revenue... which will probably cover some of the costs for the custom edits.

To be fair your list doesn’t look, like it has any big pieces of functionality - but rather minor tweaks. Might just take some getting used to 2.1 and you’ll find you don’t need all of these.

Also true from what I've seen with the beta versions. 2.1 is a big leap.
"This is really a generic concept about human thinking - when faced with large tasks we're naturally inclined to try to break them down into a bunch of smaller tasks that together make up the whole."

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Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2018, 01:10:13 PM »
I do have the adsense mod installed but haven't used it. I don't plan on using it until I have steady traffic, which isn't until Fall when I expect a lot of activity on my site since it's hockey season.

Offline Justyne

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 02:18:26 PM »
So what’s the custom dev you had done? Idly curious.
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Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2018, 02:46:48 PM »
So what’s the custom dev you had done? Idly curious.

I've had several done, there's one or two I don't remember but these are a few.

1. Linked Words is a feature similar to Wikipedia where certain words are automatically linked based on assigned linking terms in the ACP. For example, if I hyperlinked "Philadelphia Flyers" to it's a forum within my own site or it's own NHL website it'll automatically link it'self and become a hyperlink when myself or any member or guest creates a post with Philadelphia Flyers in it. I can create endless linked words in the ACP to be automatically linked on the front end when used in posts.

2. I ran a minor league hockey fight enthusiast site years ago and had a complete voting system system built to suit. the front end looked almost like this, http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/140585 but mine was better. Posting a fight was even easier with the WYSIWYG form. That's gone now, unfortunately my current site has no tangible need.

3. Customized BBCode to make phone numbers clickable on all mobile devices, (not quite as easy as it sounds).

4. Customized BBCode to take the poll data from one post and embed into another with a 5 star rating image based on % of all voting criteria which is 5 choices. The resulting poll data looks nothing like the SMF poll data, it's completely customized.

5. Currently having a huge template form with form fields created in order to make travel destination posts on my site easier to create than having to do all of the BBCode and HTML I'm already doing. Will only be accessible to me as Admin.

Those are the ones I can can remember, still use and/or am having developed now on my new site.


With this being said, is there any way to make Responsive Curve2 available for 2.0.15? That is mainly what I'm interested in in 2.1

Offline Arantor

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2018, 03:02:49 PM »
Making Curve2 available for 2.0.15 is a *major* piece of work because it essentially entails rewriting it.

The rest don't sound like huge pieces of work to be redone - bbcode isn't vastly different in 2.1 (it's a little different for PHP 7.2 compatibility)
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Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2018, 03:07:27 PM »
Making Curve2 available for 2.0.15 is a *major* piece of work because it essentially entails rewriting it.

The rest don't sound like huge pieces of work to be redone - bbcode isn't vastly different in 2.1 (it's a little different for PHP 7.2 compatibility)

So, with Curve2 in 2.1 will it still rely on the responsive curve mod in order to work?

Offline Arantor

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 03:10:49 PM »
No, Curve2 is a completely new theme that is massively more responsive. Responsive Curve is just a little bit of the code taken out of Curve2 and put into Curve.
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Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2018, 03:38:27 PM »
No, Curve2 is a completely new theme that is massively more responsive. Responsive Curve is just a little bit of the code taken out of Curve2 and put into Curve.

Got it, that is what I am waiting for. I have no interest in doing anything beyond the default theme, (what I have now). I don't use Core or any others, and I don't want a mobile theme because they don't look good at all. What I have works but if 2.1 Curve2 is a true responsive theme, I imagine everything should work the way I assume a responsive theme should. And of course I'd like everything I have, (mods) to work with it :) but I don't want to risk using it and having something happen to my site. Guess I'll just pay somebody to do it when/if it gets the green light.

Offline Arantor

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2018, 03:47:49 PM »
You know, you could always try it out on a test site.
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Offline njtweb

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2018, 04:01:09 PM »
True, I might make a subdomain and do it there.

Offline confuseamuse

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2018, 05:47:03 PM »
Making Curve2 available for 2.0.15 is a *major* piece of work because it essentially entails rewriting it.

The rest don't sound like huge pieces of work to be redone - bbcode isn't vastly different in 2.1 (it's a little different for PHP 7.2 compatibility)

I read somewhere that 7.2 doesn't work well with 2.0.15 and below. I'm currently running clean installs of .15 and 2.1 and I'm liking the new features. Makes me not want to start a forum with the older software now. Definitely gonna wait until there's a 2.1 production build somewhat (or I just make a live site using the beta against better judgment).

Offline Arantor

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2018, 06:01:19 PM »
Correct, PHP 7.2 will throw quite a lot of errors into the error log as the create_function function has been marked deprecated (and all of SMF 2.0's bbcodes rely on it)
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Offline landyvlad

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2018, 09:30:01 PM »
When's the SMF Production version being released?  :laugh:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Obviously not a serious question.
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Offline GigaWatt

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Re: 2.1 Production Question
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2018, 04:56:22 AM »
We don't do dates.  We're into longer term commitments.   8)

:P
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