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Author Topic: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)  (Read 5323 times)

Offline drewactual

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(WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« on: December 11, 2018, 08:41:58 AM »
it's really not that hard to roll your sleeves up and dig into the css... i have a premium theme that i altered to such a degree the owner allowed me to take credit, and the mobile function is simply tagged onto the end of the main css- a matter of fact, ALL css is combined, minified, and pushed via h2 to clients. 

dont' get me wrong, it's not perfect yet.  but it's close.  check out link in my sig for example.  you can minimize your desktop for the same effects of mobile.  there is a problem i have with it slightly escaping the screen size, but a double tap on the screen and it aligns.... i may fix that this morning now that i think about it. 

Offline Gwenwyfar

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 10:16:33 AM »
Sorry, but that is very far from perfect. It may only be "not that hard" to make your forum minimally usable in mobile.
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Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 10:28:25 AM »
Sorry, but that is very far from perfect. It may only be "not that hard" to make your forum minimally usable in mobile.

well, that's less abrasive than your original post.  i notice i only take fire from the little 'inner club' here, which i'm certain limits SMF's mobility (no pun intended). 

the site works very well, though it has been stripped of some function in effort to gain speed.  the mobile version was guided by users, who are happy with it. 

i'm sure you can do better, and i'm sure you're willing to charge for that service too... which is what this, as many other things on this site, boil down to.

Offline Gwenwyfar

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 10:31:41 AM »
Because you keep trying to push the idea that "anyone can easily make their site responsive" while calling it great. Both of those things are wrong.

Nothing wrong with trying to make your forum more usable for mobile, specially when many themes are not, or are full of problems of their own, but you shouldn't make it sound like something it is not.
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Offline Arantor

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 10:37:34 AM »
Since we’re talking about “the inner club”, for the record, I’m mostly only abrasive to people who waltz in and declare everything is easy (when it isn’t) and when they end up using topics that are often tangentially related at best to show off how awesome they are, especially when whatever they are talking about really doesn’t help the OP...

Are there good responsive SMF themes? Yes. They’re not in the bounds of achievability for most SMF admins, not even the ones willing to get dirty with code, because most admins do not have the time or skill to achieve. The situation will improve once 2.1 goes live and people start adopting that as a base as it is on some level responsive, but I’m sure some will argue it isn’t responsive enough.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 10:46:22 AM »
and what is it pray tell?

something the great oracles only know?  something that is mysterious and vague to everyone but those who seek profit?  something that, unless presented with a signature by one 'in the club' is disturbingly yet not explained but with 'broken'?

there IS a wrong here, and it is this little club within SMF, which again I am certain limits the reach of an otherwise fine product.  and which makes the enterprise of this 'responsive' dynamic within the SMF ranks tantamount to that of 'climate change', which is to say it's a load of crap being extorted for profit and obviously guarded by those who wish to corner that profit as their own.

stop flattering yourself.  it isn't that hard.  that said, instead of pointing out the serious issues you exemplify along with several others here, i should instead focus effort on improving what is mine instead of feeding you people what everyone here should be feeding you- a dose of your own medicine. 


Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 10:53:31 AM »
... and  i figured you'd be around, Arantor, before too long... i don't have a clue what your issue is with people- of which i'm certainly a part- you mutter this drivel about "declaring something is easy" as it detracts from your ego to suggest that.  this is obvious after reading only a handful of your interactions with people. 

guess what? there is no cause for that!  there is zero reason to be nasty with people.  but that's what you do.  every once in a while you aren't- and even when you are (as is most often) there is STILL a LOT to be learned by your offerings.  i appreciate that and i'm sure others do- no, i'm CERTAIN others do. 

yesterday i installed a roots supercharger on a SBC... can you do that?  I can.  whoopie.  If someone was to ask i'd tell them "it's not that hard" and it isn't.  it starts with building blocks of knowledge/information and expounds.  just like coding does.  i really wish i was as good at coding as you are- and i intend to be in time.  in the mean time, i'll share what little i DO know as 'it isn't that hard' because, well, it isn't that hard.  going from where i'm at you where you're at in a few moments? it's not hard it's impossible.... but staging those blocks will get me (and others who are on their own journey) there before you know it- and.... looking back what will be said? "It isn't that hard".

Offline Arantor

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 10:59:01 AM »
Hey, you’re the one saying things are easy, we’re just pointing out that things aren’t like that in reality, even for those of us who’ve been doing this close to 20 years and do it as a day job and speak at conferences in their field...

Thing is, hard is relative. I’ve spent years telling people things were easy - because to me they were easy - only to discover that people around me are baffled by how easy it seems to me. I literally work with people who declare me a magician because I can do things they simply don’t understand. And these are people who are senior developers with years of experience.

So my barometer for how easy something is is severely broken and in my experience it has long been the case that if I think something is easy, it almost certainly isn’t. If I think something in the web design field is hard, it’s almost certainly out of bounds for most users, especially since a decade of SMF taught me that most users have no idea about technical things at all.

As for why I’m so bitter around people, maybe it’s because I’ve been around smug know it alls for too long who assert that they are correct and I learned it from them.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline Kindred

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 11:13:47 AM »
making a theme responsive is **NOT** easy.

If you think it is, then you have a significant amount of knowledge that most admins lack - which MAY make it "easy" for you... but even that, I doubt.

I have a site which I used Studio-003 on as a baseline moderately responsive theme...   I then proceeded to tweak it for MONTHS before it was ready for production use. (and I am fairly knowledgeable in HTML and CSS)

As for your accusations -- you do realize that there is no profit involved for anyone who you would suggest is in "the inner circle"?  That kinda throws your entire argument under the bus.




to the OP. Yes, there are some good and some decent responsive themes.
Unfortunately, since the core product is not a block-based design, it can take some knowledge in order to customize the theme(s) so that your site is more unique.
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Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 11:15:46 AM »
it 'does' take a certain type of mind to wrap around some things... there are folks who know a little about a lot, and some that know a lot about a little. 

i think it was the late great Stephen Hawking who lamented that science, in the beginning, was one discipline... only to fragment as greater knowledge was gained- geologists, biology, chemistry, ect... then at a certain point in time not yet to happen, all 'scientists' will have to have a working knowledge of other disciplines and how they relate to their own... bringing 'science' back full circle where people will be 'scientists' instead of "just" biologist...

^that dynamic is present in coding, by my observation.  except it's accelerated as to know SQL is great, but not if you don't know how to present it... php is great, for collecting data needed, but not if you don't have structured data source or a means to present it.   folks like you have a grasp on 'all' of it... and it's because your mind is wired differently than most- not better, not worse, just differently. 

Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 11:26:30 AM »
i've been around SMF a lot longer than you folks realize i'm guessing.  my post count doesn't account for that.  this isn't my day job- so i glean what i can to make it easier from folks far more knowledgeable..... basics of css is the simplest of the specific skillsets required, and perhaps the most powerful for people, like me, who left the heavy lifting to the SMF team for functionality.  CSS isn't hard.  a person could get themselves spun up on CSS in a matter of a couple weeks i'm certain. 

php, asp, ect- not so much... your brain has to function in a certain path to be truly proficient it's been my observation...

old tale: "the wife asks her husband to stop by the grocer and get a gallon of milk, and if they have banana's, get six"... the husband came home with six gallons of milk.. why? because he's a coder.  my wife knows better than to ask me such things, as i never make it past the beer aisle.


but this is my point:  this place is supposed to help and encourage people to do it themselves- offer tools and assistance in the same spirit of cooperation open source was conceived with in the first place.   it's my observation many here, and in the 'inner club' are extremely egotistical.  it's not a good mix. 

Offline Kindred

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 11:45:31 AM »
you assume we CARE "how long you've been around"
you also assume (incorrectly, again) that because YOU found it "easy" that everyone would find it so...   that is, of course, so far from the truth to be almost laughable.

and we do help people...   
I'll tell you what is NOT helpful...   someone coming into a thread/question and saying "it's really easy, just do it"
Another thing that us unhelpful...   someone coming in with mistaken information and suggestions that are not relevent (which you frequently do)

So... it's not about the ego. It's about our desire to give people correct information and to not downplay the difficulties they might be having.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline Arantor

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 11:55:15 AM »
Ah but that’s kind of my point. Some of the “help” offered by some isn’t helpful. Some of it is sufficiently unhelpful that it confuses people by talking about things that are irrelevant, like how this topic has become derailed with talk of some secret cabal.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 01:04:08 PM »
whatever.  you guys are comical.  the ego with y'all is measured in tons.

Offline Arantor

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2018, 01:25:14 PM »
Hey, I’m not the one who responded to a topic on “I’m having trouble getting my members to post” with a massive long explanation about how they should be selling things to people rather aggressively.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2018, 01:37:26 PM »
when the topic was generating revenue... yeah, that was off base.  and little do you know about that subject, though you apparently claim expertise there as well? 

you guys should get a room... if you don't already have one. 

when i first came around SMF, the room wasn't full of ego. it is now.  congrats.

Offline Kindred

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2018, 02:02:01 PM »
isn't it amazing how fast the "ego" insult comes out when someone disagrees with you?  but when they agree with you (or you with them), they're being "smart"?

Pshaw I say to you... pshaw.
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Offline Arantor

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2018, 02:03:15 PM »
I don’t claim expertise there at all, I don’t do online selling. I did freelancing for a while but that’s not the same as having fairly strong opinions.

Thing is, you weren’t there when the real egos were around, the egos that nearly forced the project to close back in 2010 (that I, and others, resigned from the team over). You weren’t there when some elements of the team threatened to send DMCA notices to other members of the team, over what amounts to egotism.

Me, I’m tame and largely the only reason I hang around is because there are times I think my years of contributions might have been helpful. But then I have debates like this where my reaction is such a depressive one that I’ve been known to self harm over it because living with chronic depression for 20 years is good fun. And yes, I lash out at people. And ego? Sure, only I think I’ve put enough time and effort in to be afforded some leeway in terms of knowing stuff.

Still, if that’s the case, why do you use things I’ve worked on? Better not use SMF 2.1 as most of its headline features were partially or completely written by me, but since I know squat, best not trust it, eh? Fortunately you haven’t complained about any of the mods I made being removed, guess you don’t use any of them, so no worries there, right?
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline Gwenwyfar

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2018, 02:24:35 PM »
Quote
I’m mostly only abrasive to people who waltz in and declare everything is easy (when it isn’t) and when they end up using topics that are often tangentially related at best to show off how awesome they are, especially when whatever they are talking about really doesn’t help the OP...
Exactly... Add to that that it is a poor job being said "easy".

Quote from: Arantor
Are there good responsive SMF themes? Yes. They’re not in the bounds of achievability for most SMF admins, not even the ones willing to get dirty with code, because most admins do not have the time or skill to achieve. The situation will improve once 2.1 goes live and people start adopting that as a base as it is on some level responsive, but I’m sure some will argue it isn’t responsive enough.
Sadly very few, even among theme authors.

Quote from: Kindred
making a theme responsive is **NOT** easy.

If you think it is, then you have a significant amount of knowledge that most admins lack - which MAY make it "easy" for you... but even that, I doubt.
Even if you have enough knowledge that you could call it "easy", it is still a lot of work. It really isn't the case here though, it is very far from that. Beginner level at best.

Quote from: drewactual
something the great oracles only know?  something that is mysterious and vague to everyone but those who seek profit?  something that, unless presented with a signature by one 'in the club' is disturbingly yet not explained but with 'broken'?
If you were actually looking to improve yourself, I could take screenshots and point out the (many) broken to visually poor problems in your site. But I have the impression that probably would only serve to make you even angrier for pointing it out.

Quote from: drewactual
but this is my point:  this place is supposed to help and encourage people to do it themselves- offer tools and assistance in the same spirit of cooperation open source was conceived with in the first place.   it's my observation many here, and in the 'inner club' are extremely egotistical.  it's not a good mix. 
Except that you're not being helpful with the information you're giving. You're not giving the complete nor accurate information, and you're giving very vague pointers on what to do, with the sparsely few of it that is actually correct.

The short of it: Don't spread misinformation.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 02:41:45 PM by Gwenwyfar »
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Offline drewactual

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Re: (WAS Re: Any good responsive, modern themes?)
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2018, 02:39:09 PM »
i have little doubt of your skill, Arantor.  I've tried to make that clear.  your contribution's are undeniable. as are Kindred's.  that isn't what this is about.  I really don't know what this is about or what solicited you guys to participate other then using the term "insider club" which brought you two in running. 

in the end, personality is a worthless thing. it's deeds that measure a person.  you guys and the rest of the team (that include's the insiders club) have left your mark on the world, and in a good way.  a very good way.  maybe you don't feel recognized enough for that? I don't know.  nothing i say or offer is in debate of that. 

what i DO debate is personality- which some take too serious.  to include ourselves- we take ourselves too serious too.  all of us.  you aren't the only one who suffers, Sir- it's been a lifelong battle that led to strange and abrupt decisions- which was amplified by what my doc calls PTSD and what the VA sees as something of a disability.  then, i'm thinking, all of that is also up to vantage and opinion, and flips right back to 'we take ourselves too serious'. 

look, you guys are the rock stars of the site here.  you guys help and you innovate.  this isn't up for debate- it's that you could be a helluva lot more personable especially with people who you don't know and how what you present impacts them. 

the toltec wisdom of the four agreements is applicable here, I think... I should employ it more than i do and i'm guilty as charged in that regard. 

all of this circles back around to "it's not that hard" is encouraging someone to seek their own resolution.  my child, who is almost six years old and came later in life than most, has a keen and remarkable intelligence- not only her literal intelligence which every single one of her teachers are stricken with, but her insight into people- it's an empathy that is rare.  I have no friggin' clue where she got that from as i am strictly logical (and which should be said here: i ain't taking offense in this conversation one bit)... I would not in a hundred thousand years tell her "that is too difficult"... I may tell her "you're not equipped right now to do that, but you can learn" but I'd never exclude her by discouraging her. 

that^ is an attempt to draw parallel/analogy.  I can and do learn a lot from you guys.  i massive amount of information i've taken from your posts and contributions.  i'm not about to tell somebody what they're attempting is too difficult- instead i'll offer what i can to direct their efforts so they can figure it out on their own.  I ain't going to direct someone to a site that sells something they can do on their own.  if they don't have the time or inclination to learn, that is a different story.  let them buy it or hire someone to do it if that's the case.  for those asking advice on how it's done, there will be little hesitation to offer what i do know, even though it's not near as thorough as what you guys can- to get them started. 

CSS... it ain't that hard.  it is the easiest of these 'languages' required.  a lot of stuff can be done with it that really makes pages POP apart from cookie cutter- i.e. 'themes'.  PHP isn't that hard, but it easily escapes me without references handy.  taking all the snippets of php functions, along with js/jquery while extracting data from db's and making them dance in concert? no- that is all you guys.  i appreciate what you guys share... but discharging someone who does things differently or is asking about something which is a worthwhile pursuit to self-proficiency?  that is wrong.