Advertisement:

Author Topic: Possible bugg  (Read 1816 times)

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Possible bugg
« on: March 24, 2019, 05:46:14 AM »
I had the same topic in two windows.
In the first window I deleted the topic.
In the second one i tried to refresh the page. It failed and took me to the page in the attachment.
So far, So good. The problem comes when you click on back. It now tries to go back to the non existing topic. It would be better if it checked if that URL exists and if not takes me to the level above

Offline Illori

  • Project Manager
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 51,283
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2019, 06:05:08 AM »
that is how SMF works. i am not sure at this time it is worth the effort to code a redirect as we are trying to get closer to a stable release.

Offline doug_ips

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 303
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2019, 09:41:52 AM »
Indeed, that is the default behavior and personally I think that no redirection is needed for that.

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

  • A Peculiar Finn
  • Lead Support Specialist
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 18,627
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't worry, I'm n00b friendly
    • Aleksi.Kilpinen on Facebook
    • LexArma on GitHub
    • aleksi-kilpinen on LinkedIn
    • There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2019, 09:46:49 AM »
I would say that is expected behavior, and any check/redirect in that particular situation would just be a waste of cycles.
A Finnish Support Specialist
 Happily running multiple SMF 2.0 installations.
  Fooling around with an i7 990X @ 3,47Ghz / 12Gb / Win 10 x64 / 3840x2160


How you can help SMF

"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum.
 Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2019, 10:10:43 AM »
So that a button placed there to help users shouldn't be expected to work and it shouldn't be fixed either?
Well if that's your attitude against your users, we can only agree to disagree.

For me, it absolutely has to be fixed. Bad enough for 2.1 release - no, but it should be in the next release or so.

My reason for looking on SMF was to do an eval if an open source forum could replace the current Vbulletin and Xenforo installations.

So far the answer is no.
Phpbb fails on edit experiance and warning system
SMF fails on bugs like the one above and the topicsplitter wasn't accepted by our users

Some things that would have been nice for the future is to make the quick editor setting "use full editor" actually give the full editing experience (including attachments)
It should be used for replies and not just for quotes.
It also would be nice to use it for writing reports on posts. There is No need for another editing experience in my eyes


Offline SychO

  • Lead Customizer
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 1,526
  • Gender: Male
    • SychO9 on GitHub
    • SychO
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2019, 10:28:56 AM »
I cannot reproduce what you describe so it has probably been fixed for the next release

Quote
Some things that would have been nice for the future is to make the quick editor setting "use full editor" actually give the full editing experience
That setting is still being discussed over in github

Imazighen

Offline SychO

  • Lead Customizer
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 1,526
  • Gender: Male
    • SychO9 on GitHub
    • SychO
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2019, 10:35:01 AM »
oh and the topic splitter's UI is also a known bug which will be fixed in the next releases, generally speaking there are still bugs here and there, and we are still working on them.

Imazighen

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

  • A Peculiar Finn
  • Lead Support Specialist
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 18,627
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't worry, I'm n00b friendly
    • Aleksi.Kilpinen on Facebook
    • LexArma on GitHub
    • aleksi-kilpinen on LinkedIn
    • There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2019, 10:43:15 AM »
So that a button placed there to help users shouldn't be expected to work and it shouldn't be fixed either?
No. I simply said it works like I would expect it to. The same way your browser would when pressing the back button. Now, if the page you are headed to suddenly doesn't exist, it is worth letting the user know in the form of the error you attached. I would not expect to be redirected anywhere  and would see that as a flaw in logic.
A Finnish Support Specialist
 Happily running multiple SMF 2.0 installations.
  Fooling around with an i7 990X @ 3,47Ghz / 12Gb / Win 10 x64 / 3840x2160


How you can help SMF

"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum.
 Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

Offline GigaWatt

  • The Smiley Guy
  • Support Specialist
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 2,104
  • Gender: Male
    • Macedonian electronics forum
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2019, 11:43:09 AM »
Not seeing this as an issue either. The topic doesn't exist, so it redirects you to the page where it says that it doesn't exist. It's completely logical. Redirecting you to a completely different place (like, for example, the index of the board), would be illogical to me. Like Lex said, "huh... I didn't ask for this ???".
"This is really a generic concept about human thinking - when faced with large tasks we're naturally inclined to try to break them down into a bunch of smaller tasks that together make up the whole."

"A 500 error loosely translates to the webserver saying, "WTF?"..."

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2019, 01:42:56 PM »
Not seeing this as an issue either. The topic doesn't exist, so it redirects you to the page where it says that it doesn't exist. It's completely logical. Redirecting you to a completely different place (like, for example, the index of the board), would be illogical to me. Like Lex said, "huh... I didn't ask for this ???".

Thats not the issue. The problem comes when you try to leave the page that says that the topic doesn't exist. It tries to send you back to the non-existing topic giving you the same info again and again and again and again and .............

Ie the user experience is that the button doesn't work and results in a helpdesk call (about $40) in wasted money.

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

  • A Peculiar Finn
  • Lead Support Specialist
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 18,627
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't worry, I'm n00b friendly
    • Aleksi.Kilpinen on Facebook
    • LexArma on GitHub
    • aleksi-kilpinen on LinkedIn
    • There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2019, 02:19:47 PM »
Well, even in your partial screenshot I can see 4 other options to take me back to the forum.
"Home", "My community", "Unread posts" and "Updated topics" will all get you away from the loop.
The actual error and the "back" -button are used in other scenarios too, scenarios much more likely than the one you described -
and in those cases it should work just fine most of the time.
A Finnish Support Specialist
 Happily running multiple SMF 2.0 installations.
  Fooling around with an i7 990X @ 3,47Ghz / 12Gb / Win 10 x64 / 3840x2160


How you can help SMF

"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum.
 Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

Offline Kindred

  • The Mean One
  • Support Specialist
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 58,502
  • Gender: Male
    • Kindred-999 on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2019, 02:23:12 PM »
???   

You use the back button (on your browser) to go back to a page which does not exist.
You get an error message that the topic does not exist.
You then press back again...   which takes you back to the topic which does not exist.

as annoying as this seems.... this is a browser and user issue, not a forum behavior issue. 

You are using the back button. The browser does exactly what it should -- and the forum responds exactly as it should.
Force checking everything to see "if it exists" then deciding where to redirect you?  That would be a potentially huge drain on server resources -- and is not necessary to address improper user behavior.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2019, 07:29:56 PM »
You use the back button (on your browser) to go back to a page which does not exist.
No. The only back button involved is the one you provide in the software.

this is a browser and user issue, not a forum behavior issue. 
A button generated by your software that doesn't work isn't your Issue?
Sorry but if you put a button there that doesn't do anything good for the users it's 100% a forum software issue and nothing else. 

and is not necessary to address improper user behavior.
Clicking on buttons your software provides is improper user behavior? You might want to think about why you put a button there. Was it to provide value for the users or to annoy them with something that doesn't do anything useful? if it was the later it's working fine - else it needs to be fixed.

The actual error and the "back" -button are used in other scenarios too, scenarios much more likely than the one you described -
and in those cases it should work just fine most of the time.

Therefore it seems reasonable to split them into two so that they always works fine instead of causing non working scenarios.
Seems like a rather small patch and a quick quality gain.

I started this thread to give feedback on issues found during our eval. This bug, A non reliable post counter and a lack of functionality in the thread/post spiting experience (compared to Mybb or xenforo works). Whether you want to fix them to improve your Quality and feature set so that you can create a better offering able to stand up to the best or not - well that's up to you.

For me it's mission complete and time for the next project. The eval servers will be deleted in a few days.
The production server will remain on Xenforo since no good enough alternative was found










 



Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 71,629
    • StoryBB/StoryBB on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2019, 07:49:40 PM »
The only reason XenForo doesn't have this issue is because it doesn't have that cute little 'back' button in the page. Every other symptom you describe functions identically in XenForo (and yes, I am a licence holder)
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

  • A Peculiar Finn
  • Lead Support Specialist
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 18,627
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't worry, I'm n00b friendly
    • Aleksi.Kilpinen on Facebook
    • LexArma on GitHub
    • aleksi-kilpinen on LinkedIn
    • There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2019, 12:03:26 AM »
The actual error and the "back" -button are used in other scenarios too, scenarios much more likely than the one you described -
and in those cases it should work just fine most of the time.

Therefore it seems reasonable to split them into two so that they always works fine instead of causing non working scenarios.
Seems like a rather small patch and a quick quality gain.
Like mentioned, it would mean SMF would have to keep a record of where you came, deeper than one or 2 pages, and always check if those addresses are still valid (and if they are, are you still allowed to see them?) when going back, and then figure out where you really want to go. Not a very small thing, and possibly a notable waste of resources.

I started this thread to give feedback on issues found during our eval. This bug, A non reliable post counter and a lack of functionality in the thread/post spiting experience (compared to Mybb or xenforo works). Whether you want to fix them to improve your Quality and feature set so that you can create a better offering able to stand up to the best or not - well that's up to you.
On this particular issue, we have a difference of opinion on what qualifies as a bug.
The post counter in my experience is anything but unreliable, caching can sometimes delay the stats from updating, but the numbers should be correct.
The topic splitting was already answered above, it is still being worked on. We are discussing an RC version, not a production release.

For me it's mission complete and time for the next project. The eval servers will be deleted in a few days.
The production server will remain on Xenforo since no good enough alternative was found
This is of course your decision, and you should always go with the software best for you.
If in your opinion that is not SMF, then good luck with what ever software you end up with - and thank you for the feedback.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 01:13:17 AM by Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen »
A Finnish Support Specialist
 Happily running multiple SMF 2.0 installations.
  Fooling around with an i7 990X @ 3,47Ghz / 12Gb / Win 10 x64 / 3840x2160


How you can help SMF

"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum.
 Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2019, 11:58:27 AM »
Oki, one final final post ;)
this is the "Waiting in the airport for a delayed aircraft" patch. All seven mighty lines of it. Is it perfect? Probably not but it fixed our issue.

   if ($context['error_code']="topic_gone")
     {
      global $boardurl;
      echo '       <a class="button" href="',$boardurl,'">', $txt['home'], '</a></div>';
     }
    else
       echo '   <a class="button" href="javascript:document.location=document.referrer">', $txt['back'], '</a>  </div>';

oh and the topic splitter's UI is also a known bug which will be fixed in the next releases

I think we are talking about two different things. I'm talking about not being able to select multiple posts in the "standard post view" and then select what I want to do with them.
IE we miss the checkboxes on the posts and the related functions. Attached a ref pick on how it looks in Xen

Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 71,629
    • StoryBB/StoryBB on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2019, 12:26:45 PM »
Those checkboxes are configurable, go to your profile, to look & layout and change the “quick moderation” option to checkboxes.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2019, 01:17:35 PM »
Those checkboxes are configurable, go to your profile, to look & layout and change the “quick moderation” option to checkboxes.

Well, yes sort of.
You can get the checkboxes but you can't get the functionality.
if you try to split- you still get the split topic screen (which we do not want)
We also miss copy and move (haven't looked to deep at them though)

Offline SychO

  • Lead Customizer
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 1,526
  • Gender: Male
    • SychO9 on GitHub
    • SychO
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2019, 01:51:32 PM »
except the topic split ui is supposed to let you select which posts go into the new split topic

Imazighen

Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 71,629
    • StoryBB/StoryBB on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2019, 02:22:50 PM »
except the topic split ui is supposed to let you select which posts go into the new split topic

Does the topic not give you the tick boxes and the option st the bottom to split them or was that broken in addition to the select posts UI being broken? Pretty sure this works correctly and does what the OP needs in 2.0.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline SychO

  • Lead Customizer
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 1,526
  • Gender: Male
    • SychO9 on GitHub
    • SychO
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2019, 02:31:04 PM »
except the topic split ui is supposed to let you select which posts go into the new split topic

Does the topic not give you the tick boxes and the option st the bottom to split them or was that broken in addition to the select posts UI being broken? Pretty sure this works correctly and does what the OP needs in 2.0.

It's not broken, even that works just fine, so I'm not sure what OP is talking about anymore

Imazighen

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2019, 02:49:50 PM »
No it does not work fine.

it brings up a topic split screen that shouldn't be needed at all.
There is no way to choose name or placement of the new thread
there is no button to move posts
there is no button to copy posts

all of it should be doable directly from the postview

that's for starters in lacking functionality compared to Xen

Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 71,629
    • StoryBB/StoryBB on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2019, 03:18:08 PM »
So go back to XenForo already, you clearly were looking for justification to stay there, guess you found it.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline SychO

  • Lead Customizer
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 1,526
  • Gender: Male
    • SychO9 on GitHub
    • SychO
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2019, 03:31:20 PM »
just because xenforo does it that way doesn't mean SMF has to do it the same way, besides once you split the posts into a new topic, you can change the topic's name and move it wherever you want.

Imazighen

Offline Kindred

  • The Mean One
  • Support Specialist
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 58,502
  • Gender: Male
    • Kindred-999 on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2019, 03:35:07 PM »
we will have to agree to disagree then, since IMO, the move post function does not belong within the split post function - and I don't think that copy topics is a good idea anyway since that will result in lowering your SEO scores.... :P

(and, the first screen of the split post option DOES give you the option to change the post title of the split post)
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2019, 06:53:36 PM »

(and, the first screen of the split post option DOES give you the option to change the post title of the split post)

You DO NOT get that Screen if you use the checkbox approach .......

Offline Kindred

  • The Mean One
  • Support Specialist
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 58,502
  • Gender: Male
    • Kindred-999 on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2019, 08:41:39 PM »
Ok...  so use the other approach...
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2019, 06:06:27 AM »
Ok...  so use the other approach...

Because this one doesn't have that functionality (either) which was my point from the first place.
Quote from: mats_o
we miss the checkboxes on the posts and the related functions.

 

Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 71,629
    • StoryBB/StoryBB on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2019, 06:11:26 AM »
So your complaint is that software developed by 2-3 full time people has more features that you care about than software developed by 4-5 people occasionally in their spare time and you don’t want to pay for it, good to know.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline mats_o

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2019, 03:59:23 PM »
So your complaint is that software developed by 2-3 full time people has more features that you care about than software developed by 4-5 people occasionally in their spare time and you don’t want to pay for it, good to know.

No, it's customer feedback from an eval of SMF and what they saw as the biggest issues and weaknesses.   
What they want to pay for is their decision but they where serious enough about this to hire me on a 40 hour consulting engagement as technical support in the eval team.



Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 71,629
    • StoryBB/StoryBB on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2019, 04:11:43 PM »
In which case you definitely want to choose XenForo because in the event of major issues, they have thing like warranties available.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline landyvlad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 862
  • Gender: Male
    • Michael Reed on Facebook
    • GSX1400 Owners ORG
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2019, 06:47:21 AM »
hire me on a 40 hour consulting engagement as technical support in the eval team.

Well we can see who the winner in this whole thing is !

Is bleating on this forum billable hours?
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with questions on astrophysics or theology.  You will get better and faster responses by asking homeless people in the street. Thank you.

To paraphrase Kindred: "There are no technical solutions to social problems."

No hack nor blackhats, just persistent asshats.

Offline Arantor

  • Resident Overthinker
  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 71,629
    • StoryBB/StoryBB on GitHub
Re: Possible bugg
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2019, 06:50:41 AM »
Of course it is. Though I would have cost significantly less to tell you what the most appropriate forum product for a given situation is (and it isn’t always SMF)
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.