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Do Settings in Profile>Modify Profile contradict Notify in boards/posts?

Started by Mareid, April 10, 2019, 12:57:25 PM

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Mareid

I don't understand how the notification settings in the profile interact with each other

I'm assuming that unchecking Turn on Notifications simply disallows all notification from forums, but if it is checked...

What effect does

For topics and boards from which I have requested notification, notify me of: - This setting changes when SMF will send e-mail notifications to you. Possible options are:
        Replies and Moderation
        Moderation (only if I started the topic)
        Only replies
        Nothing at all

If I choose Nothing at all and then subscribe to a board or topic, does that mean that I won't get any notifications despite subscribing?

If I choose Only replies does that mean I will get notification only if someone replies to a topic I've posted, despite subscribing to a board I haven't posted in or a topic I haven't replied to? 

By the way I could not find anything on this in the manual or FAQ that actually explains how these choices work together (or at cross purposes).


Kindred

Yes, if you check "nothing at all" then you will not be notified, even if you subscribed.

The same goes for the other settings...   You can subscribe to as many topics or boards as you like... but if the setting is for "replies only" then you will only be notified of replies to threads that you have posted in AND have subscribed to...

not sure why this is confusing, actually...  it's not at all contradictory, since it clearly states "For topics and boards from which I have requested notification, notify me of:...."

you have to BOTH request notification of the thing AND have the notification included in the notify me set.
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Mareid

Let me get this straight...

As I understand it, the checkbox turn on notifications...automatically turns board notification on, and topic reply notification on, any time you start a new topic in any board, or reply to a topic in any board, whether you have manually turned notifications on or not.  Assuming the turn on notifications... checkbox is checked...

replies only disables automatic board notifications when you start a new topic or reply to a topic but you will be still be automatically subscribed to topics you reply to.
Quoteif the setting is for "replies only" then you will only be notified of replies to threads that you have posted in AND have subscribed to...
By the same logic as  how nothing at all works, this choice appears to turn off board notifications even those you've subscribed to manually.   
Quoteyou will only be notified of replies
nothing at all disables the automatic subscription to both board and topic notification when you start a new topic or reply to an existing one.  This choice turns off all notifications, even those you've subscribed to manually.
Quoteif you check "nothing at all" then you will not be notified, even if you subscribed.

You can avoid automatic subscriptions by leaving the turn notifications on.. checkbox unchecked (which is the default), and you can avoid all all other notifications by passively by simply not clicking the Notify button.

The last option IS redundant, since the default option for turn notifications on is not checked and topic and board defaults are don't notify.  And if you are correct, that users will not receive notifications even if they are subscribed, then it's not only redundant, but perverts the user's actual intentwhen he or she takes a positive action to click Notify on topics and  boards of interest. 

This is poor UI design for end users especially those not used to the configurability of this forum, and it yes IS confusing!






Kindred

I disagree that it is poor ui

And it is not redundant
...  you're logic is incorrect and that's not how it works.  The way it works is exactly logical and the way it is described on the page,  not as your posted
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Mareid

So why not tell me where my post is incorrect instead of just telling me my interpretation (based on your previous reply) is not correct.  That actually would be helpful.  Essentially you are saying "the way it works is the way it works". 

SMF support needs a "customer experience" team.

Arantor

The overhaul it got in 2.1 was long overdue because it was confusing.

GigaWatt

Quote from: Mareid on April 10, 2019, 08:28:41 PM
SMF support needs a "customer experience" team.

And we would have that if we got paid for what we do ::).
"This is really a generic concept about human thinking - when faced with large tasks we're naturally inclined to try to break them down into a bunch of smaller tasks that together make up the whole."

"A 500 error loosely translates to the webserver saying, "WTF?"..."

Mareid

I'm still looking for help on the Notifications section in the user profile, since I clearly don't understand it.  If it doesn't work the way I've laid out, how does it work?

And actually I was kidding about the customer experience team...I know you are all volunteers.  But I came here looking for help and I got told it isn't confusing (but it's been re-written in 2.1 because it IS confusing), and I shouldn't be confused because it's perfectly logical and works the way it's described on the page.  Well, I'm confused by how it is described on the page.

GigaWatt



If A is ticked (on), any topic you reply to automatically goes in the topic subscriptions list. If A is unticked (off), this doesn't happen. If C is set to "Only replies", you will only be notified about replies to topics that are on the topic subscription list and if new posts and topics are made in the board subscription list. If C is set to "Nothing at all", you won't be notified about anything that happens in the topic subscription list and board subscription list.

Hope this helps ;).
"This is really a generic concept about human thinking - when faced with large tasks we're naturally inclined to try to break them down into a bunch of smaller tasks that together make up the whole."

"A 500 error loosely translates to the webserver saying, "WTF?"..."

Mareid

I'm sorry I'm so dense.  There are boards and there are topics.  Topics have replies, boards have posts (Topics)

If A is ticked, I'm automatically subscribed to my own topics and if I reply to another topic, then also to that topic, but not to the board that hosts the topic?

If A is ticked,

Is this right now? 

if C,  is replies only, I will receive only replies to my own topics and to other topics that I've replied to, I will not receive board notifications at all regardless if they are on the subscription list or not

If C is nothing at all, then regardless, even if A is ticked or a board or topic is on the subscription list I won't receive notifications. 

if  C  is moderation only if... does that mean I get notified of everything in the subscription list(including boards I've manually subscribed to) AND moderation of my own posts?

I still don't see the point of C=Nothing because you can simply leave A unticked and forbear to click "Notify" when looking at a board or topic. 

Basically I want to know and to be able to tell my users which choice to make so that boards they've clicked "Notify" on and posts they've clicked "Notify" on send them a notification if someone posts in such a board, or replies to such a topic.  It looks to me that the only choice that allows this is "moderation only if..."  Please let me know if this is so, or explain why it isn't .  Thanks





Kindred

Boards are only subscribed by active choice.
You are never subscribed to a board by posting... only by selecting to be subscribed

You are only notified of the things you choose in the c field. Regardless of what you may be subscribed to.
Subscription and notifications are two separate,  although related, things
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Arantor

The point of the Nothing At All option is so if a user's email becomes inaccessible/invalid, an admin can go turn off the emails (to avoid spam issues and errors in the log), while the user doesn't lose their notifications. So when the user then enters a new email, they can also reactivate their notifications.

Clunky UI though.

Kindred

Also, for users like me who really DON'T want email notifications, but use the "subscribed to" list to keep track of interesting threads (like a bookmark)
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Mareid

I did a bunch of tests and I get it now.  Interesting about the nothing at all being for an invalid email or to see where you are subscribed but not get flooded with emails.  I do question whether an end user, new to a forum, would understand that or think to look in their profile to see items of interest without getting a bunch of emails. 

SMF is an amazing piece of software and very feature rich...and complex if you want to understand it. 


GigaWatt

Quote from: Mareid on April 11, 2019, 09:08:44 PM
If A is ticked, I'm automatically subscribed to my own topics and if I reply to another topic, then also to that topic, but not to the board that hosts the topic?

OK, let's break it down.

You've got some topics that you subscribed to and some boards you subscribed to and they are on the topic and board subscription lists. A is unticked. C is set to "Only replies", so you're notified about new replies in those topics and boards (this includes new topics opened in those boards that you're subscribed to). You tick A, here's what happens.

You reply to a topic that is in a board that you're not subscribed to. This topic gets added to the topic subscription list and you're automatically subscribed to it. Let's leave A ticked for a while, let's say a few days. You reply to 30 topics that are not on the board subscription list and you haven't previously manually added them to the topic subscription list. After each of your replies to those topics, each and every one of those 30 topics will be automatically added to the topic subscription list and if C is set to "Only replies", you will be notified about replies made in those 30 topics that you have replied to, but have not manually subscribed to (as I said, if A is ticked, they're automatically added to the topic subscription list).

OK, now let's untick A (A is off). Those 30 topics you replied to previously are still in your topic subscription list and they will stay there, unless you manually remove them, so if C is set to "Only replies", you will still get notifications about replies made in those 30 topics. But, now, when A is unticked, if you reply to a thread that is not in your board subscription list and is not already on your topic subscription list, it won't automatically be added to your topic subscription list.

Basically, A is responsible for automatically adding topics you've replied to to your topic subscription list, that's it. While it's ticked, it adds topics you've replied to to your subscription list. If it's unticked, it doesn't do that. If you ticked it, replied to some topics you haven't replied to before, they get added to the topic subscription list. If you untick A, the changes made to the topic subscription list are not undone, it just means that automatic topic addition to your subscription list isn't active any more.

If most of your members wouldn't like automatically being subscribed to anything, it's best that you tell them to leave A unticked.

And to answer the last part of your question, no, if A is ticked, the board that that thread was opened in doesn't automatically get added to the board subscription list, just the topic.
"This is really a generic concept about human thinking - when faced with large tasks we're naturally inclined to try to break them down into a bunch of smaller tasks that together make up the whole."

"A 500 error loosely translates to the webserver saying, "WTF?"..."

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