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Spammer-defence by entry-page?

Started by walrus2019, September 04, 2019, 03:51:43 PM

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walrus2019

Quote from: Herman's Mixen on September 04, 2019, 06:36:17 PM
You can use the SMF GeoIP [nofollow] modification written by a former SMF Member...
It needs a bit of updating, but there are here people around who can help you with that...

NO! WE CAN NOT! The spammers come from all over the globe. So it is NOT possible to use ANYTHING related with "geo" or alike.

As I wrote: The spammers use hijacked PCs an com from thousands of IPs all over the globe.

Herman's Mixen

so you can not use of instal anything, well you be doomed by those hijackers ;)

if you cannot install stuff or your host cant cause its a reseller, or some weird provider.. you should switch hosts !
Do not shout in posts like this, this will not help you anyway.

so your research yourself what you will doing about this one then :P
Met vriendelijke groet, The Burglar!

 House Mixes | Mixcloud | Any Intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Former Godfather of our dutch community ;)

walrus2019

Quote from: Herman's Mixen on September 04, 2019, 06:51:09 PM
so you can not use of instal anything, well you be doomed by those hijackers ;)

if you cannot install stuff or your host cant cause its a reseller, or some weird provider.. you should switch hosts !
Do not shout in posts like this, this will not help you anyway.

so your research yourself what you will doing about this one then :P

There is no reason for us to do so. We want an additional intermediate page which forces the surfers to some manual action. This is enough to reduce the load and it will frighten the spammers.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Simply adding a new pageload will not work, it will add to your current bandwidth usage, and do nothing much to fight the issue. You could try this though https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2155
A Finnish Project Manager (Support Specialist)
 Happily running multiple SMF 2.x installations.
  Fooling around with i7-10700 @ 2,90GHz-4.80GHz / 16Gb / RTX-2070 Super / 3840x2160 / Win 10 x64


How you can help SMF

"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

walrus2019

Quote from: Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen on September 04, 2019, 10:48:15 PM
Simply adding a new pageload will not work, it will add to your current bandwidth usage, and do nothing much to fight the issue. You could try this though https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2155

1. The total traffic is NOT the sum of ALL incoming requests and of the pages the surfers WANT. If instead of giving them a page sized 300 to 500 kB they only get some few kB, the traffic load is reduced by over 90 percent.
Only those who manually go on will receive the full size of the web page. The traffic saved will be BY FAR more than 95 percent.

2. The honeypot stuff and the blacklists are a) useless and are b) abused by frauds who enter persons IDs in faked entries. We strongly advice NOT to use such lists, because in effect they support criminals.


Again: We need an additional page that must be passed by the surfers with a manual entry. This will block ALL automatic requests to the forum and lets through only real persons.

@rjen

Maybe an analogy may help?

Let's assume you live in a house, which is on a narrow street. The street is a public road.
Now there are thousand of people that for some reason want to look at your house. Mind you: they do not get onto your lawn and they don't get in.
Due to the masses of people in front of your house your guests cannot get through, or with difficulty.

What you are now asking is to somehow block visitors from accessing your street so they look at the house, but at the same time you state that you are in no position to prevent them from entering the street in front of your house... there really is no solution for that.

Putting a page (large fence) in front of your site (house) does not block the street: people will still block street, but instead of looking at the house they will looking at the fence, but the street is still blocked...

If you do not want guests to pull a lot of traffic: close your forum for guests, that way the traffic will go down... that's as close to a fence that you will get.

at least, that's my opinion...
Running SMF 2.0 with Tinyportal 2.1.0 at www.fjr-club.nl
Testing SMF 2.1 with Tinyportal 2.1.0 at test2.fjr-club.nl

Kindred

Your information on how things work overall seems to be pretty much incorrect in almost every detail...

You've been given really good suggestions, but you refuse every one with excuses based on incorrect information....   however, I'm sure that you know best (although, if so, why even bother coming here to ask the question?)
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

walrus2019

1. Please do note that we are online for over 2 decades now.

2. You have absolutely no clues either about traffic nor about how spammers work now about internals of maintaining a forum.


We need help by people who REALLY do know the materia.


Illori

without access to your server control panel, there is very little that can be done to even attempt to fix the issues you are having.

you need to obtain that access then you can look into getting someone to fix the issues.

Arantor

Well, you've been told by people who've been running forums longer than you, and you've been told by people who have literally been on the SMF dev team at this point.

Since you clearly know better than us, why do you still want our opinion or help?
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

walrus2019

Quote from: Arantor on September 05, 2019, 09:43:13 AM
Well, you've been told by people who've been running forums longer than you, and you've been told by people who have literally been on the SMF dev team at this point.

Since you clearly know better than us, why do you still want our opinion or help?


1. You do not know who we are.

2. I explained the situation as precise as possible. If you do not understand it, I am sorry, this is not our fault.


As I said: We need an entry page, because that is the only means to counter the wild hordes attacks. Anything else does not work - for a number of reasons.

SychO

Quote from: walrus2019 on September 05, 2019, 09:49:22 AM
As I said: We need an entry page, because that is the only means to counter the wild hordes attacks. Anything else does not work - for a number of reasons.

So you have found YOUR solution yes ?
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Arantor

Oh, I understand what you think you want and why you think you want it. I just don't think it will actually fix your problem.

But again, I'm only literally a former developer of this software, and you have deliberately misconstrued my point: you are coming here and telling us we need to build you a solution to your problem, as though you are the only site to ever have had this problem in the history of the world. You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake, this is a problem that happens every day and the suggestions made were entirely the correct ones.

But since you don't trust the views of people who have been on the dev team, why do you trust the software they helped make?
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

Herman's Mixen

You know best what you can do we have come up with alot of suggestions and idea's but you do deny on them... well build your custom page and you will see that, that doesn't help you
Met vriendelijke groet, The Burglar!

 House Mixes | Mixcloud | Any Intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Former Godfather of our dutch community ;)

walrus2019

Quote from: Arantor on September 05, 2019, 09:55:13 AM
Oh, I understand what you think you want and why you think you want it. I just don't think it will actually fix your problem.

But again, I'm only literally a former developer of this software, and you have deliberately misconstrued my point: you are coming here and telling us we need to build you a solution to your problem, as though you are the only site to ever have had this problem in the history of the world. You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake, this is a problem that happens every day and the suggestions made were entirely the correct ones.


1. That you wrote a forum script does not automatically mean that you understand the situation we are faced with.

2. We are unique. That you can be sure of.



Quote from: Arantor on September 05, 2019, 09:55:13 AM
But since you don't trust the views of people who have been on the dev team, why do you trust the software they helped make?

That is totally irrelevant. There is a big difference in writing a forum script and in maintaining a forum, especially a forum like ours. 99,999  percent of people are not able to maintain a forum. The "trends" in the media show this day for day. We are not in the media business, but we very well could be...

walrus2019

Quote from: Herman's Mixen on September 05, 2019, 10:02:00 AM
You know best what you can do we have come up with alot of suggestions and idea's but you do deny on them... well build your custom page and you will see that, that doesn't help you

Well, since Forbes is not the only company which has an intermediate page we of course assume that OTHER FORUMS might, too, have installed means like intermediate pages. This is all we are looking for. It is a simple construction. But we do OUR part of the job, and that is maintaining forums in hurricanes.

Arantor

Maybe it's time you stopped freeloading off your friend and got a real server because hundreds of requests in 15 minutes should not be a problem even on a modest VPS (I reckon with proper tuning you could do it for $20 a month on a self managed VPS)

Mind you I'm only looking after sites for small players in their field, getting only up to 10k requests a minute, or the one governmental agency that requires 15 web servers to serve the load, I'm sure I'll never hit the level of busy you seem to have.

As for the protection of content, the quickest route is to simply make everyone log in. Achieves the same as your front page with the same level of inconvenience to your actual users.

Forbes do it for other reasons, not just to deal with the issue you seem to have (like making sure you see an ad to cover their costs)
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

walrus2019

Quote from: Arantor on September 05, 2019, 10:12:08 AM
Maybe it's time you stopped freeloading off your friend and got a real server because hundreds of requests in 15 minutes should not be a problem even on a modest VPS (I reckon with proper tuning you could do it for $20 a month on a self managed VPS)

Mind you I'm only looking after sites for small players in their field, getting only up to 10k requests a minute, or the one governmental agency that requires 15 web servers to serve the load, I'm sure I'll never hit the level of busy you seem to have.

As for the protection of content, the quickest route is to simply make everyone log in. Achieves the same as your front page with the same level of inconvenience to your actual users.

Forbes do it for other reasons, not just to deal with the issue you seem to have (like making sure you see an ad to cover their costs)


As I wrote: We are only guests, and we want to stay that way. The forum is a small one. The wave of requests is artificial and in in no way related with the normal life of the forum.

We do not make any SEO stuff. We are not commercial. So, Forbes may have some financial ideas in their heads on WHY to make that entry page. But we have different reasons.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

And your reasons as they are don't make sense.
A simple added step. Does literally next to nothing to slow down any modern bot. But - worst case scenario, can be used to bring your forum down.
A Finnish Project Manager (Support Specialist)
 Happily running multiple SMF 2.x installations.
  Fooling around with i7-10700 @ 2,90GHz-4.80GHz / 16Gb / RTX-2070 Super / 3840x2160 / Win 10 x64


How you can help SMF

"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

walrus2019

Quote from: Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen on September 05, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
And your reasons as they are don't make sense.
A simple added step. Does literally next to nothing to slow down any modern bot. But - worst case scenario, can be used to bring your forum down.


It is very easy to understand: The entry pages must contain a simple question. Bots will not be able to pass that stage.

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