There should be a "test installation" section

[EvilTessmacher]

The reason I say this is, there are some questions I've not found answers for, and there should be a better way of explaining some things than there already is.

For example: I'd like to install this on a server that won't be accessible to the public, so that I can operate it and adjust it, and get used to managing it, before I go live with it. There doesn't seem to be an explanation of how to do such a thing, that I can find.

Maybe I'm too ignorant of the terminology used here, but almost everything I've read seems to be aimed at people who already know what they're doing, and already know how to do things. That leaves out a huge group of people  (like me) who neither know what we're doing, nor know how to do it.

[Antechinus]

Ok, do you want a server you can run on your desktop, for testing only?* Or do you want to set a test site up online, but private?

If you want to run a test site on your desktop there are several packages available, and most of them are pretty easy to use. Basically you just install the thing, and then turn it on and off.

If you want a private site online then get yourself a basic hosting package, and set up a private directory (password-protected). Again not hard to arrange.

*You really don't want to try hosting your own online site from home, unless you're an expert.

[EvilTessmacher]

Ok, do you want a server you can run on your desktop, for testing only?* Or do you want to set a test site up online, but private?

To answer both of those, I don't know.

If you want to run a test site on your desktop there are several packages available, and most of them are pretty easy to use. Basically you just install the thing, and then turn it on and off.

Without the specific names of such "packages" and detailed (as in step-by-step) instructions on how to install and use, this tells me it's probably not a very good option.   

If you want a private site online then get yourself a basic hosting package, and set up a private directory (password-protected). Again not hard to arrange.

I do happen to have hosting service for a personal website. I use it to put photos, links, memes, and such online, that I can link to. I would imagine I could set up this forum software on it, and learn how to use it, before I have the group I belong to obtain their own domain and hosting for me to set up their private forum once I get where I know enough to be a reasonably competent operator. That's why I'm wanting to do this. I'm also trying to do it with as little involvement from the group as possible, in case I don't get it working the way they would want it to work.

*You really don't want to try hosting your own online site from home, unless you're an expert.

Well, considering that I stated that I didn't know what I was doing, it's a pretty good guess that I'm nowhere close to being an expert.  I also don't know what "hosting your own online site from home" means... I thought every site was. I have the program that does the HTML, and then I add things, take things away, rearrange things, and then upload it to the host. Isn't that managing it from home? 

As long as nobody else goes on the forum after I've begun setting it up, at least not without my invitiation, it should be okay. I wouldn't know how to password protect it unless the instructions were written on the sole of the boot.  I'm really barely able to turn this dang thing on. 

[Illori]

you could do another install on your current host in a different folder, put it in maintenance mode and only you would be able to access it.

[EvilTessmacher]

you could do another install on your current host in a different folder, put it in maintenance mode and only you would be able to access it.

That sounds like a reasonable thing to do! If I had any knowledge base at all, it sounds like something I might have thought of! 

My only question is this: What does it mean to "put it in maintenance mode" and how would I do that?

Part of me wanting to set it up on a temporary server is to be able to have one or two people from the group (who would end up being moderators) come to the forum for testing.

Is what I'm wanting to do even a feasible thing?

[Antechinus]

Yes, it's feasible. You go to your website hosting control panel and you make another folder inside your web root (which is usually called public_html). This folder is then accessible like any other web content, and you can put whatever you like inside it. Your control panel should also let you put a password on the new folder, so anyone who knows the password can gain access but everyone else is kept out.

Exactly how you do it will depend on what your control panel allows. Which one are you using? It should tell you somewhere. Common ones are cPanel, DirectAdmin, Plesk, etc.

Or, if you're lucky enough to have a host that is actually helpful, you can always ask them.

[peterbehlendorf]

I usually test bits on a subdomain (example.mydomain.com)

You can then use robots.txt/htaccess to block allow/deny access on the subdomain.

[Antechinus]

Yeah but they won't know what that means. I'm trying not to scare them.

[EvilTessmacher]

Yeah but they won't know what that means. I'm trying not to scare them.

You're right. I only followed about 30% of it.   

There are a few things I did recognize, like "web  root", "cPanel", and "subdomain" but I got lost with "robots.txt", and that permission-setting thing. Those are unfamiliar to me. 

I think I've got a decent sized learning curve.

Thanks for being so patient everyone. I'm really glad to see that there are folks here who remember what it was like not to know anything.

[Antechinus]

Ok, are you using cPanel? If yes, does anything on this page make sense?

https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/82Docs/Directory+Privacy

[EvilTessmacher]

Ok, are you using cPanel? If yes, does anything on this page make sense?

https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/82Docs/Directory+Privacy [nofollow]

Yes, some of it does. There is a cPanel icon in the management page on my webhost.

It seems like there are some things I've done that are described in writing on that page. The written word always seems a little more formal and dry when compared to physical actions it takes to do some things.

I wasn't aware that there was a webpage with directions for cPanel. I wonder if there's a page somewhere that will tell me how to take a domain name and apply it to the forum I am hoping to create?  Sorry, I get ahead of myself.

Yes, some of that is familiar. And you are building to something. 

[Antechinus]

Yes, some of it does. There is a cPanel icon in the management page on my webhost.

Yay! And cPanel do want people to use their product, so directions are handy for that.

I'd suggest you try it. If you get it wrong, you can always delete the folder or change the password or whatever. It won't break anything. You can test the results by dropping something obvious like a known image in the folder, and then trying to call it in your browser. If everything is working you should see the username/password prompt, and if you enter the correct details the image should appear on your screen.

[skb]

Are you familiar with ftp packages?
Somewhere down the line you will also need to use one of them.

[EvilTessmacher]

Are you familiar with ftp packages?
Somewhere down the line you will also need to use one of them.

Yes, I use Deskshare's FTP Manager. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, is simple, and does what I need with a minimum of fuss.

[EvilTessmacher]

Yes, some of it does. There is a cPanel icon in the management page on my webhost.

Yay! And cPanel do want people to use their product, so directions are handy for that.

I'd suggest you try it. If you get it wrong, you can always delete the folder or change the password or whatever. It won't break anything. You can test the results by dropping something obvious like a known image in the folder, and then trying to call it in your browser. If everything is working you should see the username/password prompt, and if you enter the correct details the image should appear on your screen.

Okay, I read up on the MySQL Database Wizard, and there's some significant information left out of these "instructions". It tells you that you have to create a database, but doesn't say a single thing (at least not to me) about what to do in order to do that. No instructions on what to name it, no instructions or even so much as guidance on what to put in it, nothing. This is my biggest pet peeve with internet instructions. They're all written by people who act like the ones who are reading it actually don't need it. They answer questions in a manner that assumes the answer is already known. |I don't know how to proceed from here, because some critical (to me) information is left out.

[Antechinus]

I thought you were wanting to get the private directory set up first. If you want to do databases as well...

Go into phpMyAdmin (assuming your host will let you). Click on the tab at the top that says "Databases". You will now have "Create database" options. Give it a name. Select "utf8_unicode_ci" for collation. Hit the "Create" button. You now have a database. You don't have to put anything in it at this stage. The forum installation script puts stuff in it for you.

I suggest reading the SMF installation instructions. They'll probably drive you bonkers too.

https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Installing#Create_a_Database_and_a_Database_User

[SpacePhoenix]

If you want to run a test site on your desktop there are several packages available, and most of them are pretty easy to use. Basically you just install the thing, and then turn it on and off.

Without the specific names of such "packages" and detailed (as in step-by-step) instructions on how to install and use, this tells me it's probably not a very good option.   

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=offline+web+server 

[EvilTessmacher]

I thought you were wanting to get the private directory set up first. If you want to do databases as well...

Go into phpMyAdmin (assuming your host will let you). Click on the tab at the top that says "Databases". You will now have "Create database" options. Give it a name. Select "utf8_unicode_ci" for collation. Hit the "Create" button. You now have a database. You don't have to put anything in it at this stage. The forum installation script puts stuff in it for you.

I suggest reading the SMF installation instructions. They'll probably drive you bonkers too.

https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Installing#Create_a_Database_and_a_Database_User

This is what I meant when I said that there was important information left out. I wasn't sure which I was supposed to do first, the private directory or the database. The information wasn't clear to me. So, I presume I shall have to do the directory first, and then the database. Here is where it falls short for me. What do I name it?

If the installation instructions are as well written as the other pages I've read so far, I believe I won't have to worry about creating a forum. I'll be too insane to even know what day it is. My memory is bad enough. If it gets any worse, I will be able to plan my own surprise party.

By the way, I haven't thanked you for your kind assistance yet. So, thank you for your kind assistance.

[EvilTessmacher]

If you want to run a test site on your desktop there are several packages available, and most of them are pretty easy to use. Basically you just install the thing, and then turn it on and off.

Without the specific names of such "packages" and detailed (as in step-by-step) instructions on how to install and use, this tells me it's probably not a very good option.   

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=offline+web+server [nofollow] 

Thank you. That doesn't necessarily seem like the option I need to pursue at this time. I do appreciate the information though.

[Antechinus]

This is what I meant when I said that there was important information left out. I wasn't sure which I was supposed to do first, the private directory or the database.

Doesn't matter. My 2c is do the directory first, because it requires reading less arcana, and if you get that sorted it will give you a feeling of accomplishment.

Here is where it falls short for me. What do I name it?

Doesn't matter. If you want to call the database my_old_mans_a_dustman and the directory the_hunting_of_snark nobody is going to stop you. It's just a name. Choose whatever seems right to you. Just make sure to connect words with an underscore. It's a convention, and reduces the chance of whoopsies.

By the way, I haven't thanked you for your kind assistance yet. So, thank you for your kind assistance.

You should see some of the questions I asked when I was a beginner.

[EvilTessmacher]

This is what I meant when I said that there was important information left out. I wasn't sure which I was supposed to do first, the private directory or the database.

Doesn't matter. My 2c is do the directory first, because it requires reading less arcana, and if you get that sorted it will give you a feeling of accomplishment.

Here is where it falls short for me. What do I name it?

Doesn't matter. If you want to call the database my_old_mans_a_dustman and the directory the_hunting_of_snark nobody is going to stop you. It's just a name. Choose whatever seems right to you. Just make sure to connect words with an underscore. It's a convention, and reduces the chance of whoopsies.

By the way, I haven't thanked you for your kind assistance yet. So, thank you for your kind assistance.

You should see some of the questions I asked when I was a beginner.

I didn't look around much when I was setting up my website, being more interested in getting that done without screwing anything up, but I decided to take a look around before I did anything. Scrolled almost all the way down the cPanel page, and what did I find? Nestled down there near the bottom was a section labeled "Softaculous Apps Installer" and inside that section is an "SMF" icon. I suppose that means there's an installer for the forum sofware there.  I don't know if I ought to use it or not, but it might simplify things if I do. Imagine that!

One thing I'm not clear on. Should the new folder (directory) be directly inside the main root (home/username), or should it be inside the "public_html" directory?

[Arantor]

It should be inside public_html, as this is the bit where you place HTML (and apps that make it) soit can be publicly accessible (rather than logging into your account with FTP or cPanel)

[EvilTessmacher]

It should be inside public_html, as this is the bit where you place HTML (and apps that make it) soit can be publicly accessible (rather than logging into your account with FTP or cPanel)

Why do they leave out important tidbits like this? Other than writing these instructions for people who already know what to do....

Thanks!

[Arantor]

I think in the history of time, they were presuming that the name would somehow be obvious to future generations, but of course in practice it isn't.

[Illori]

also i believe the folder name can change depending on how your host is setup.

[EvilTessmacher]

I think in the history of time, they were presuming that the name would somehow be obvious to future generations, but of course in practice it isn't.

As I mentioned before, it is one of my biggest pet peeves to ask a question in earnest, and get an answer that is aimed at someone who already knows. I've seen this for years on computer-related boards everywhere. You get some (pardon me) pimply-faced kid who knows everything, and he'll always get exasperated beyond belief that everyone else doesn't have his knowledge base. It's as if once one gets to a certain level of knowledge, they forget everyone else doesn't have that same knowledge. (off soapbox now)

It seems to me that some kind soul somewhere would see this, and fix it somehow. Sigh...

also i believe the folder name can change depending on how your host is setup.

I'm gobsmacked! That actually makes complete sense! Who in the heck would have thunk it?

I'm at a point now where I am almost ready to attempt the creation of the database. Except, I'm almost a little afraid to do so.

[Antechinus]

Go ahead and create as many db's as you like, then destroy them just for giggles. They're only a concern once you have important stuff in them. Practice runs with empty ones are not a worry.

[EvilTessmacher]

Okay, after four attempts (I couldn't figure out what the URL needed to be to get the installer to run!) I keep getting to the part where the SMF installer is at 10% and is asking for the "Database Server Settings". 

I keep getting the error message:

Critical Error!
Cannot connect to the database server with the supplied data.

If you are not sure about what to type in, please contact your host.

I've tried everything, and there are two bits of information I am not sure about.

The first one is the "server name" and the second one is "table prefix"

Nowhere in any of the information I have is this information given, that I know of.

Unfortunately, there's no one to contact at my host. I don't think they're open until tomorrow.


I'm stymied.

[shadav]

did you create a database? you have to create it before installing smf
in your cpanel go to your databases, create or modify database

from here you should see your host username and then a box where you can enter the name for the database, this can be whatever you want it to be, I usually either use what it is or what script it is so either forum or smf
you may also need to assign a user to the db and grant it privileges but most times you don't have to as it automatically adds your hosting account as an admin

so server name is either localhost or in your cpanel it should tell you somewhere
table prefix unless you changed it should be smf_

[EvilTessmacher]

did you create a database? you have to create it before installing smf
in your cpanel go to your databases, create or modify database

from here you should see your host username and then a box where you can enter the name for the database, this can be whatever you want it to be, I usually either use what it is or what script it is so either forum or smf
you may also need to assign a user to the db and grant it privileges but most times you don't have to as it automatically adds your hosting account as an admin

so server name is either localhost or in your cpanel it should tell you somewhere
table prefix unless you changed it should be smf_

Yes, I created a database. Or, at least I think I did. I went through the procedure in the "MySQL Database Wizard". As far as I know, that created the database. I did see the name I gave it at some point.

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think doing the installation through the "app installer" inside cPanel created it's own database, and that's what it's looking for. I'm going to try those names, and see what happens.  I'll keep everyone posted.

[EvilTessmacher]

Okay, I think I have it now!

The database name was not the same one as the one I initially designated. The installer inside cPanel creates a new one, and that's the one it uses. All the other conflicts, such as server name, etc. are also resolved with the cPanel installer.

So, I have a forum now, and it's getting interesting to play with. Thanks for all your help everyone. The questions are not going to stop, as once I get this thing going, I am going to need some assistance adding things in when it gets to that point. Now all I have to do is get a few beta testers in, and let them make some suggestions.

Thanks everyone!!