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Calender Settings -> Time Zone

Started by Wichtlmex, October 19, 2019, 06:35:48 AM

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Wichtlmex

Hi,
I have to enter a lot of events and I am bored with setting the time zone every time.
Is there a possibility to preset any time zone (even I do not need the drop-down list, it is always CEST)

regards
Michael

m4z

Are you entering events for a single or multiple timezones? (IOW, do you want to always pre-set the same TZ, or different ones depending on the event?)

The setting seems to default to the forum server TZ, set under Administration > Configuration > Features and Options > General > Server timezone.


Edit: I'd almost consider this a bug, the events TZ should probably default to server TZ + forum offset.
"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

Wichtlmex

Hi m4z,
YES, all events to be posted will require CEST time setting.

Whatwever server time zone I select, whatever offset I adjust, when posting a new event, the default drop-down menu entry always shows UTC.
The only way would be to ignore the UTC entry and just press "save" (furtherhin ignoring summer/wintertime changes) and adjust a time delay of 2h.

But if I do that NOW, all already finished calender posts will change 2h and I would have to re-edit everything :-(


m4z

Ah, my bad then, I didn't test enough (my server TZ is UTC).

If you have DB access, you could post your events with UTC and then adjust the TZ in the DB. (I'd have to check how exactly though, currently on mobile.)
"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

m4z

"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

m4z

Part of the problem seems to be user error (thanks, @shawnb61):

  • Set the forum TZ to the server TZ (which you probably already have) and (probably) leave the offset at 01
  • The default TZ of calendar events is what you select in your user profile under look and layout2

[1]: because otherwise it is added to both the forum TZ and the user TZ, which is a problem if they're different (like in my case)
[2]: I assume you (will) have CEST in both cases, then this might work for you; in my case with different forum and user TZ it's not quite right yet.
"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

Wichtlmex

#6
Hi m4z:
I am  following your message:

Now the setting CEST disappeared from the dropdown,...... just because summer time is over? Strange thing!
Now every user who will register should guess, "Algiers, Tunis" time UTC+1/CET  is valid for him/her, living in France, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Poland, Denmark.......?  No middle european city is listed there!

I guess I will get a lot of complaints of new members about the calender times are wrong  :-( because they will not find easily the right time zone.
At least MY time entries are fine now!

regards
michael

m4z

Quote from: Wichtlmex on October 28, 2019, 04:23:26 PM
Now the setting CEST disappeared from the dropdown,...... just because summer time is over? Strange thing!

Yeah, apparently it now has changed name from "[UTC+02:00] - CEST - Central European Summer Time" to "[UTC+01:00] - CET - Central European Time". At least it automatically adjusts the time so you don't have to manually change for summer-/wintertime.


Quote from: Wichtlmex on October 28, 2019, 04:23:26 PM
Now every user who will register should guess, "Algiers, Tunis" time UTC+1/CET  is valid for him/her, living in France, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Poland, Denmark.......?  No middle european city is listed there!

I sorted the "DE" timezone on top, via the admin options, and then wrote a short guide for my users to select the top option (which, admittedly, is named CEST/CET).


Quote from: Wichtlmex on October 28, 2019, 04:23:26 PM
I guess I will get a lot of complaints of new members about the calender times are wrong  :-( because they will not find easily the right time zone.
At least MY time entries are fine now!

I'm not saying I like the situation (I don't); I just wanted to summarize the current state.
"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

Northern Ireland

Quote from: Wichtlmex on October 28, 2019, 04:23:26 PM
Hi m4z:
I am  following your message:

Now the setting CEST disappeared from the dropdown,...... just because summer time is over? Strange thing!
Now every user who will register should guess, "Algiers, Tunis" time UTC+1/CET  is valid for him/her, living in France, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Poland, Denmark.......?  No middle european city is listed there!

I guess I will get a lot of complaints of new members about the calender times are wrong  :-( because they will not find easily the right time zone.
At least MY time entries are fine now!

regards
michael

yes, this timezone  issue has been an annoyance for me too.

I got my own issue (as admin) fixed today, by setting the timezone to my Chicago based server's timezone.  And setting my admin account timezone to "Forum Default"

My forum is in central america, as are my users, and the time is the same as in Chicago.

All good for me now......New Events get posted on the right day finally.

But on testing my users, still had an issue (to post new events on the right day in calendar).  So to solve it - I had to go , as admin, and manually change every single user's timezone to "Forum Default".

Success!

I wish new forum registrants' didn't have the option to pick their timezone.  Any new registrant should have their timezone set by default to "Forum Default"   IMHO




Kindred

Why?

What if someone from the east coast of the us or from Europe logged in? They should be able to set their time zone correctly
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

shawnb61

What bugs me about this is that there is no forum default timezone setting.  But...  It's the default selection upon registration...
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Kindred

Forum default = setting of
Server timezone (which should be set in Admin AND on your server itself)
PLUS
Overall time offset

/index.php?action=admin;area=featuresettings;sa=basic

each user can then adjust the setting as needed.
However, if the original server timezone and/or offset was incorrectly set, users may have set their own offset... which will not be changed when the admin corrects the timezone/offset in admin.
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

m4z

What you say might be true for 2.0.x (where users can only configure their offset, AFAIK), but in 2.1, users don't have an own offset, and can only set their personal TZ. (And then, as discussed in the GH issue, the forum offset is, IMAO incorrectly, always added to the user TZ.)

So the basic message for 2.1 is: Don't use the offset at all.
"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

shawnb61

m4z is correct.  Any combination of a non-zero offset + a user selected (non-default) timezone breaks.  All times are displayed incorrectly.

I suspect the biggest part of the problem is understanding what the settings are supposed to mean.  What is the "server" timezone supposed to be?  The definition of "where your server is located" is strange; the location should be irrelevant.  No matter what this is set to, times are stored in the DB in UTC (for probably every server setup in the last 20 years...).   

What does work well is setting the "server" timezone to your desired default timezone, and a server offset of 0.  I.e., "server" timezone really = the default timezone used for display. 

OR, setting "server" to UTC and making sure all the users have a real TZ set.  The problem here is the default is now UTC...  So that takes work...

(I suspect the server offset should be used ONLY when the server is setup funky, i.e., truly non-UTC.  That's the only scenario where adding an offset 100% of the time makes sense.) 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Wichtlmex

Quote from: Kindred on October 29, 2019, 12:09:43 AM
Why?

What if someone from the east coast of the us or from Europe logged in? They should be able to set their time zone correctly

IMHO it should be possible to bypass any time change by SMF. If I publish an event in the calender, e.g. beginning at 20:15h, it should be always 20:15h, even if the visitor visits from the other side of the world!

Arantor

Yes but that visitor's 20:15 isn't necessarily your 20:15 which isn't necessarily the server's 20:15 either. This is why it needs to properly be able to cope with time zones which it currently isn't...?

shawnb61

2.1 behaves pretty differently than 2.0, but all the labels & help text have the old behavior described.

Works fine per my note above.  I logged an issue on gh to align on & fix the text.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

m4z

"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

Northern Ireland

Quote from: Wichtlmex on November 04, 2019, 05:51:50 AM
Quote from: Kindred on October 29, 2019, 12:09:43 AM
Why?

What if someone from the east coast of the us or from Europe logged in? They should be able to set their time zone correctly

IMHO it should be possible to bypass any time change by SMF. If I publish an event in the calender, e.g. beginning at 20:15h, it should be always 20:15h, even if the visitor visits from the other side of the world!

EXACTLY

nail hit firmly on the head.

Northern Ireland

Quote from: Arantor on November 04, 2019, 06:21:34 AM
Yes but that visitor's 20:15 isn't necessarily your 20:15 which isn't necessarily the server's 20:15 either. This is why it needs to properly be able to cope with time zones which it currently isn't...?

but an event will be happening at the specific time mentioned in the location it is specified to be occurring.

e.g. a Convention starting at 8pm on 12th October, Berlin.

It would be bizarre if a person in another time zone was figuring, okay what time will that Berlin event be starting in my timezone in say  Turkey, or California?  If you're going to the Berlin event, you will be going at 8pm Berlin time. 








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