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password reset emails not sent

Started by MrZork, June 18, 2021, 02:34:44 PM

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MrZork

My users aren't able to get a password reset email. If they click on the "forgot password?" link, they are able to enter an email and the
QuoteA mail has been sent to your email address. Click the link in that mail to set a new password.
message shows up. But, no email is seen at the given email address. It's not in the spam folder or anything.

We are using SMF 2.0.18 and PHP 7.3 and the forum address is http://www.freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php [nofollow]. I have used the PHP test code posted on the Wiki email FAQ page and that email arrives fine. So, I am thinking this is not an issue of being blacklisted, etc.

On the Admin > Configuration > General page, I have a valid hotmail address set as the Webmaster Email Address.

On the Admin > Maintenance > Mail > Settings page, we are set to use (PHP default) Mail Type. I set the SMTP username and password there to correspond to the same hotmail address as above. But, I don't think that should be needed for PHP email, right? I have attached a screenie of that config page. BTW, I had at one time entered the SMTP server and port values for hotmail, but removed them when testing and going back to PHP default as the email type.

I know I am probably missing something basic, but I am not sure where to look.

Sir Osis of Liver

Can you use an email address at your domain?
Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend,
 we were all equal in the end.

                                     - R. Waters

MrZork

I don't think so. Or, at least not without buying another service from Dreamhost. I've used other hosts that at least give free forwarding. But, though Dreamhost talks about forward-only email (https://help.dreamhost.com/hc/en-us/articles/215724207-How-do-I-add-a-forward-only-email-address- [nofollow]), when I go to Manage Email, all I see are links to buy an add-on email service.

BTW, does the email address have to be at the forum site domain? For years we had it set to a (currently retired) admin's gmail address and it seemed fine. It's only after a more recent host switch that I started getting reports that the email password reset doesn't work. Meanwhile, as I mentioned, the test of sending an email via a short PHP script seems to work fine.

Sir Osis of Liver

Is your forum sending any emails?
Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend,
 we were all equal in the end.

                                     - R. Waters

MrZork

Yes! I just sent myself an email from the forum by clicking the email button on my forum profile. It took a couple minutes to arrive, but it showed up in my email Inbox.

So, it's possible this is something specific to password resets or account registration (I am pretty sure those emails are not going out either).

a10

To do some easy mail testing, enable mail queue, set it to 1 mail \ minute.

Then send yourself some personal message (have mail notification set in profile), do some other stuff that produces emails like post notifications, make a test account then try password reset on that one, ask some friendly member to do some "mailproducing" things etc.

While doing all this, constantly check what shows up in mail queue, if it gets emptied over time, if anything is stuck, if anything does not go to the queue at all.

Could help pinpoint specific things needing attention, either forumside or hostside.
2.0.19, php 8.0.23, MariaDB 10.5.15. Mods: Contact Page, Like Posts, Responsive Curve, Search Focus Dropdown, Add Join Date to Post.

Illori

also did you check your spam folder? it is possible for a single email to get caught and not others.

MrZork

Quote from: a10 on June 20, 2021, 09:40:02 AM
To do some easy mail testing, enable mail queue, set it to 1 mail \ minute.

Then send yourself some personal message (have mail notification set in profile), do some other stuff that produces emails like post notifications, make a test account then try password reset on that one, ask some friendly member to do some "mailproducing" things etc.

While doing all this, constantly check what shows up in mail queue, if it gets emptied over time, if anything is stuck, if anything does not go to the queue at all.

Could help pinpoint specific things needing attention, either forumside or hostside.

So, I set the queue to 1/min. I set my test user to receive emails for new posts to several forum areas and to get email notification when sent a PM. He never got any emails about new posts in his followed forums.

I sent the test user a PM. Right after, I checked the queue and it showed a queue length of 1 and the oldest mail 23 seconds. Screenshot attached (and the email in the queue was the one to the test user). I waited a couple minutes and checked the queue again. This time, 0 queue length and oldest email was N/A. Screenshot attached. But, no email showed up in the test user's email inbox or junk folder.

It really seems like the forum thinks it is sending the email, but either just did not send it, or it isn't getting through somehow. The latter would be odd given that a user sending another user an email using the forum's email button does go through and the PHP email test script works.

MrZork

Quote from: Illori on June 20, 2021, 09:42:11 AMalso did you check your spam folder? it is possible for a single email to get caught and not others.

I check the spam/junk mail folder, as per the first post. No emails from the forum (neither those that never arrived or the one from the email button that did) went to the spam folder.

KittyGalore

Have you check your error log because if you aren't getting emails it should show up an error there as to why at least that's what i used to get when something was wrong when i was setting up my mail settings. Might be no harm looking in there if you haven't done already.
SMF Curve 2.0x

a10

Well, if every generated email show up in the queue, then gets sent \ queue emptied, definitely looks like the forum php mail is doing it's job.

Which mail adresses 'disappear', are the likes of @gmail\@outlook\@yahoo etc (the big ones) delivered reliably? while maybe failing with some ISP mail address (example @btinternet and the like?). Am thinking about your host outgoing mail server IP being blacklisted by some ISPs. This will result in either a "unable to deliver" email sent to your inbox (with info & fail codes), or in some cases the mail is simply anihilated at reception on ISP mail server with no warning to either sender or intended recipient.

Worth checking to get that written off (or confirmed) as possible cause.
2.0.19, php 8.0.23, MariaDB 10.5.15. Mods: Contact Page, Like Posts, Responsive Curve, Search Focus Dropdown, Add Join Date to Post.

KittyGalore

Quote from: a10 on June 21, 2021, 05:14:39 PM
Well, if every generated email show up in the queue, then gets sent \ queue emptied, definitely looks like the forum php mail is doing it's job.

Which mail adresses 'disappear', are the likes of @gmail\@outlook\@yahoo etc (the big ones) delivered reliably? while maybe failing with some ISP mail address (example @btinternet and the like?). Am thinking about your host outgoing mail server IP being blacklisted by some ISPs. This will result in either a "unable to deliver" email sent to your inbox (with info & fail codes), or in some cases the mail is simply anihilated at reception on ISP mail server with no warning to either sender or intended recipient.

Worth checking to get that written off (or confirmed) as possible cause.
Yes I actually had this issue recently where my web host ISP got blacklisted and stopped emails only gmail seem to work Hotmail wasn't working. I emailed them and they got it fixed.
SMF Curve 2.0x

MrZork

KittyGalore, I have checked the forum error logs and there is no reference to any error related to emails, or even near the time the emails were to be sent.

If my host ISP were to be blacklisted, wouldn't that block emails sent using email button within SMF? As I mentioned, I am able to send someone an email by just click on that email button in their SMF profile. It's just the other emails which don't seem to go through. Is it possible that SMF is not handling the emails from the profile email button (which work) the same way as the emails from registrations, password resets, and notifications (which don't seem to work)?

a10

Either:

- generated & sent (seen in queue, then leaves queue), but not received (by some mail adresses? ok for others?)
- generated but not sent (stuck in queue)
- not generated (nothing in queue)

Test with 1: some password resets, 2: some PM notifications, 3: some member registrations.
Then tell exactly what happens.
2.0.19, php 8.0.23, MariaDB 10.5.15. Mods: Contact Page, Like Posts, Responsive Curve, Search Focus Dropdown, Add Join Date to Post.

MrZork

1. Had test user request a password reset to his hotmail email address. The forum email queue stayed empty (I think that is normal). And, the forum error log shows no new errors. But, the user never received an email, either in the hotmail Inbox or in the spam folder.

2a. PM sent to test user who has a hotmail email address attached to his forum account. Email queue shows email to be sent right after PM sent. A minute or so later queue is empty again. Test user has PM among his PMs. No notification of new PM is in test users email (inbox or spam folder).

2b. Test user sends admin with yahoo email a PM. Forum queue shows 1 email in the queue right after email was sent. 1 minute later queue was empty. Admin has PM among his PMs. There is a notification of new PM in the admin's email.

3. Registered new member at fresh email address (member's address was at gmail this time). The test account did receive an activation email.

4a. Sent test user with hotmail email an email from the forum, using the email button on the user's profile. Forum queue shows 1 email in the queue right after email was sent. 1 minute later queue was empty. No email ever shows at the test user's hotmail account.

4b. Test user sends admin with yahoo email an email from the forum, using the email button on the admin's profile. Forum queue shows 1 email in the queue right after email was sent. 1 minute later queue was empty. The admin did receive the email.

Maybe this is just a hotmail thing? Seems like both yahoo and gmail addresses are getting the emails, but hotmail is not.

Is this a general thing with hotmail? Or, is it related to the forum webmaster email and email settings SMTP email account being a hotmail account? I mean, it shouldn't matter, since the email is being sent using PHP. But, maybe hotmail has extra filters that check whether incoming email is being sent from a hotmail account that it knows has not sent the email.

a10

QuoteMaybe this is just a hotmail thing? Seems like both yahoo and gmail addresses are getting the emails, but hotmail is not.

Hopefully the time spent trying out things will lead somwhere :O) Contact host, their mail server ip may be on some blacklist used specifically by hotmail. btw, the host knows nothing until someone tells them to check out the situation.

Have had some occurences of disapearing mail on my forum, not often, but the extra work it generates is definitely not welcome. It's been a few mail adresses coming with someone's ISP, & AOL has been a pain. Gmail, yahoo, outlook, hotmail have always been fine.
2.0.19, php 8.0.23, MariaDB 10.5.15. Mods: Contact Page, Like Posts, Responsive Curve, Search Focus Dropdown, Add Join Date to Post.

Steve

Hotmail was discontinued some time ago, though you can (supposedly) send and receive emails from a hotmail account. They switched to live.com and then to outlook.live.com and mails started going missing for me so I stopped using them altogether.
DO NOT pm me for support!

SpacePhoenix

Quote from: Steve on June 23, 2021, 08:08:41 AM
Hotmail was discontinued some time ago, though you can (supposedly) send and receive emails from a hotmail account. They switched to live.com and then to outlook.live.com and mails started going missing for me so I stopped using them altogether.

Hotmail addresses work perfectly fine for sending and receiving. Don't know if they get translated into outlook.live.com address behind the scenes

MrZork

I was able to register a new hotmail.com [nofollow] email address a couple months ago. I was around some years ago when the word was that hotmail was going away, except for legacy addresses and anything new would be at live.com [nofollow], or whatever the fresh new face of email at Microsoft was to be. But, apparently, Microsoft had a change of heart, since they are allowing new hotmail.com [nofollow] addresses.

However, it does appear that hotmail.com [nofollow] is doing some sort of harsher filtering for incoming mail than most of the other big email providers. I might normally think that would be a good thing. But, since it is filtering out my forum's emails to our members, my view is less positive about it.

However, I have heard something about setting up a Sender Policy Framework and DMARC protocols. Perhaps hotmail requires them? I really don't know how to set such a thing up, though I will take another look at it.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Microsoft services in general do some pretty heavy filtering and blocking, just recently I found out my server IP was blocked - and I can tell you it wasn't exactly straight forward to get it unblocked either.
SPF, DKIM and DMARC help - MS checks them all.
Slava
Ukraini!
"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

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