Alerts Help

[FrizzleFried]

No idea.  We are basing our experiences on the last alerts system we had (SMF Packs alerts for 2.0.x)...

I THINK maybe XenForo works the same way (keeps alerts until you click or they time out).  I don't do facebook much to be honest.

[FrizzleFried]

Sigh...

It's just begun.  I would be bumping this thread continually if I posted all the people posting examples of alerts that showed up in their all alerts that never showed up top including posts they never went in to.

Hell,  this guy never got this alert... and there isn't even any buttons to the right in the ALL ALERTS section...

Saw this thread bumped, but I had no alerts.  Checked "All Alerts" again, just to see if I was missing one before clicking into this thread...

And I had a new one in "All Alerts" but there was never a notification number

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[shawnb61]

It may help to distinguish the alert list from the menu counter in this discussion...  The alerts - e.g., if you have been quoted, mentioned, etc., stay in your alerts list.  The alerts list is always visible if you press the "All Alerts" button - there is a lot of history there that won't go away until you delete it.  The "new alert" counter will disappear from the menu if you have read the item.  (There is also a timeout setting under Notifications that you can tweak - I would leave it at 10, the default for now.)


If you continue to see the multiple-hour delay in alert visibility, I would suggest looking at a few things:

1)  An easy way to test the speed of alerts is to logon to two different users in two different browsers on your computer.  It's important to use two different browsers, or it won't work...  E.g., use your 'user' account in Firefox and your 'admin' account in Pale Moon.  PM each other.  Quote each other.  You can see the behavior first-hand quite easily.  Any delays become quite apparent.

2)  If there really are multiple-hour delays, I would check how many rows are in smf_background_tasks.  When an update is made, a background task gets queued to hunt around & determine who/how many alerts need to be generated.  If those are truly queueing up, you should see many rows in smf_background_tasks.  Who knows?  Maybe something is busted & clogging up your background task queue.  I'd pay careful attention to those.  Under most circumstances, that table should be empty, meaning, everything is caught up.

3)  The other thing I'd check is your browser console.  There is .js involved in updating that counter.  If something has broken that .js (e.g., mod conflict, jquery shenanigans, etc.) you will likely see an error in the browser console. 

Hope this helps,

[FrizzleFried]

I think I see a small part of the confusion...

Look at these two images.

Top one shows 5 alerts... bottom 4.

The top one actually only shows 4 alerts though... the 5th is off-screen (you can see a tiny bit of the avatar).  The drop down needs a scroll bar or to be larger.

This is on mobile...not sure if that's the same on non-mobile.

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He was arguing that bottom alert just popped in that it was old... but it really wasn't... it was hidden below the window...

[FrizzleFried]

Nevermind... moderator explained that he knew that alert was there but that was pointing out that it had appeared literally minutes before HOURS after the alert should have been generated and he'd already participated in that thread multiple times over those hours.

It still appeared.

Hours later.

Even though he'd participated.

Crazy.

There doesn't seem to be a way to pin-point the issue.  Sometimes alerts are instant (or almost). Sometimes it takes hours.  It seems to affect some more than others (or they are more sensitive to it).

[FrizzleFried]

Any idea why the menu counter would say (2) but it would show 4 alerts?


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Or why the two additional menu counter alerts were from nearly 3 weeks ago?!?

[Kindred]

you keep posting these statements (the screen shots literally tell us nothing) and yet, none of us can recreate your issue.

There has to be something on your server or a mod you have installed that has crippled the system if it's taking hours.

Seriously -- even on my test site, with something like 3 real users, I get alerts in minutes.

[FrizzleFried]

Sorry guys.  I'll try to figure things on on my end.

[Kindred]

we're willing to help you debug, but you also have to be willing to accept when we tell you how something was designed to work (since you seem to have several mistaken impressions to start) and then also, be willing to accept that your site appears to have some oddness - either due to a mod (or combination of mods) or server configuration that is preventing the system from acting as expected.

[FrizzleFried]

I accept that fact (that the problem likely exists because of a mod)... but you have to look at the history of this (and my prior post on this that I should have added to rather than make this post).  It took me a long while to determine if there WAS a problem.  My members were reporting issues.  I was reporting the issues here and was being told it was normal operations.

Adding the cron job was supposed to rectify the issue... I thought it did... but it didn't.

Today I came in still not 100% sure if there was an issue or not based on some of the posts on how the alerts were supposed to work vs what I was "expecting" (based on my prior experience with a different system granted).

I'm not blaming anyone or feeling bad about anything... I'm sorry I wasted your guys time with this issue. I'll try to determine what mod is causing my issues.  I have like 18 or so at the moment... it shouldn't be THAT hard to figure out on a test site.

It should be one of the earlier mods that I installed because I've been getting complaints from day one on this matter.  Of course I installed about 8 mods day one.

[shawnb61]

Alerts are stored, & most only go away only after you explicitly delete them.  Yes, they will hang around for weeks if you don't clear them out.  At the bottom of the list is a "Delete all read alerts" button.

The 2 in the menu counter is telling you you have 2 unread recent ones.  It's not a count of the whole list.  That list is cumulative.

This is admittedly more clear on desktop vs mobile, where you can show more.

Given the questions above, I am now wondering whether there's an issue at all...   Yes, old alerts are in the queue...  That doesn't mean you just received them.  Maybe you received them weeks ago?


If you are still convinced there is a long delay...  Did you try the 3 things I listed above?

[FrizzleFried]

That list is the drop down from the alerts button ... not the alerts pop up (all alerts).  Are you saying that normal operation is supposed to list more alerts in that alerts drop down than the number showing?

So if (2) Alerts are showing and I click that,  it's normal to show more than 2 alerts in there?

Seems... not right... saying it.  And in practice?

See what I mean @Kindred  ... it's still debatable as to whether there is an actual "issue" in the eyes of SMF...

My users will argue there is a problem.  Lots of them will.  But I guess that doesn't make it so.

[shawnb61]

We're still trying to understand if there is a problem...

If you are still convinced there is a long delay...  Did you try the 3 things I listed above?

Third request for this info.   

[FrizzleFried]

My apologies.  I am working and attempting to handle this between that.

I essentially did that earlier today when I asked my users to reply.  There were cases where it took a long time for alerts to appear.

I will log in with two different browsers... two different users... and test when I have a chance.

[shawnb61]

I will log in with two different browsers... two different users... and test when I have a chance.

There were 3 reqests - don't forget the other 2!   

[FrizzleFried]

I am a newb.  How do I accomplish the other two?

As for the 1st...

I just put two windows side by side. 

One side one user (my admin account)

One side another user (test user standard acct)


I then posted with my admin account.

I then went in with the regular user account and rated, mentioned, quoted.  Every one of them triggered an alert at the top drop down within 3 seconds.  PERFECT.  I did this for two other posts... every one of them working exactly as it is supposed to.

I then went in with my admin account and rated and quoted the responses that I made with the regular account.

I never (still) got the alert up top.  I actually have an ALL ALERTS page filled with multiple items that have MARK READ as an option as opposed to MARK UNREAD.  Still...after posting this...no alert up top.

On a hunch I went in and posted a topic with my regular account.  I then quoted that regular account... guess what happened... all 8 of the alerts hit at once.

It sounds like the alerts are not working right when someone posts something within someone elses post... but it DOES work perfectly when it's your own post?!?

Does that sound logical at all?

Basically if it's your own post,  all alerts are working.  If you respond to someone elses post and someone say quotes you in that post,  the alert is iffy at best.

To bolster this argument... i just went and quoted that regular accounts post again... and sure enough... quickly... the alert hit that regular account.

That has got to be it.

If I had two accounts here I would check that.

I'm going to go check my test site which is currently bone stock.  Will get back.

...and unfortunately (for me,  not for you guys!) the behavior does NOT occur on my sandbox site.  That means there is FOR SURE a mod causing issues. At least I will be able to add each mod one at a time and test on the sandbox site to determine the offending mod... unless someone else has better ideas (or wants to fill me in on how to do what was recommended earlier)

Thanks!

Posts merged on this page and on the first page.  Please avoid serial posting within short time periods and use the modify button instead - Iris.

[Arantor]

Did you reset your cron job to run once a minute?

Also, if you look at the database, at the smf_background_tasks table, how many rows are in it?

[FrizzleFried]

Did you reset your cron job to run once a minute?

Also, if you look at the database, at the smf_background_tasks table, how many rows are in it?

I did set the cron job to run once a minute.

I will see if i can find the background tasks table.

[FrizzleFried]

...really having a hard time finding the background tasks table in Cpanel.  Any suggestions as to where to look?

[shawnb61]

That means there is FOR SURE a mod causing issues. At least I will be able to add each mod one at a time and test on the sandbox site to determine the offending mod...

Perfect, so now we know it's a mod.  Once you isolate the mod, please report in that mod's support thread so they know.

Thanks for your perseverance.

I doubt you need the cron.  I don't, even on my localhost with zero traffic.  You could confirm by repeating the test with the cron off (which is what you did already in your sandbox, right?).  If you don't need it, you don't need it.

Yes, please confirm background_tasks.  It's possible that's how the mod is broken, and you may still have to clean out some broken tasks to get everything humming along again.  You can look at that table via phpmyadmin.  Ideally it's empty, or if not empty, any rows in there are very short-lived.