[FREE/PAID] NO Upload Button & Improved Attachment User Interface Mod

Started by FrizzleFried, May 19, 2022, 10:44:18 AM

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Steve

Sorry about making you older than you are @Arantor  :P

And most everyone here is a young'n compared to me.  ;D
Please do not PM me for support.

FrizzleFried

You are as old as you feel.  Some days I feel 70... others 35.  :)

Arantor

I am absolutely in the "old man, get off my lawn phase of life".

It also lends itself to having opinions about the pace and priority things should be looked at, and in particular some perhaps older-fashioned views of taking responsibility for things.

Sesquipedalian

Quote from: Arantor on May 26, 2022, 03:19:29 AMThank you for acknowledging that there is a fairly substantial problem here, with a core feature.

??? This was acknowledged days ago. I'm not sure what you are getting at here. If it is something relevant to fixing the problem, please elaborate. Otherwise, um... ???
Slava Ukraini!
Heroiam slava!

I promise you nothing.

Sesqu... Sesqui... what?
Sesquipedalian, the best word in the English language.

FrizzleFried

I think that may be a different issue ... at least it presents itself differently.

Arantor

Quote from: Sesquipedalian on May 27, 2022, 11:48:37 AMThis was acknowledged

So there are multiple issues here.

1. The issue you linked relates to id shuffling with attachments.
2. The number of reported attachments 'left' is routinely wrong; e.g. this site says 36 attachments quota, but uploading 1 item leaves me with it saying 19 left.
3. It's possible to post files over the quota in a single post as long as each individual file is below its own quota.
4. This thread is a demonstration of how confusing and unintuitive the user interface is for attachments.

My comment about acknowledgement was a reflection that I thought the team understood how angry the new UI has made people, to the fact that there are multiple threads trying to fix it and make it less unintuitive, even to the point of doing screenshots of multiple other platforms to demonstrate how bad the user experience really is.

And so I was hoping this was the team acknowledging that work was needed, and that potentially work would be accepted into the core for a future version. This in particular is a sticking point for me because I have a litany of features that would be great for a future version of SMF but no-one will give me any clue whatsoever if any of them *might* be included.

Since no-one can give me any idea what a future version might look like, I refuse to spend any time trying to help without *some* indication that it might be worth the effort, but alas I realise my mistake, the only thing acknowledged here was one specific bug, not that change might be needed, let alone any acknowledgement of what future improvements might be accepted.

I'm fairly sure you think my stance is unreasonable, but I find it unreasonable to put any effort in for improvements (actual improvements) without some reassurance that my time won't be completely wasted. I've already seen bug fixes thrown back and completely redone, I've had some of my feature contributions to 2.1 completely redone because it wasn't the style the rewriter preferred (even if it was consistent with 2.1's own existing style), so excuse me for wanting some reassurance that my time wouldn't be wasted.

Sir Osis of Liver

Quote from: Antechinus on May 26, 2022, 08:00:41 PMSome people are going to think that letting members know what the limits are is useful. It seems like the polite thing to do, IMO.

Still have this 'Restrictions: 4 per post (4 remaining), maximum total size 1.88 MB, maximum individual size 1.25 MB' below add files box.  Count is correct from 1-4, will not allow fifth attachment.

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Sesquipedalian

Quote from: Arantor on May 27, 2022, 12:48:15 PMSo there are multiple issues here.

1. The issue you linked relates to id shuffling with attachments.
2. The number of reported attachments 'left' is routinely wrong; e.g. this site says 36 attachments quota, but uploading 1 item leaves me with it saying 19 left.
3. It's possible to post files over the quota in a single post as long as each individual file is below its own quota.
4. This thread is a demonstration of how confusing and unintuitive the user interface is for attachments.

That's a helpful summary, thank you. I have not had time recently for more than the occasional check-in on the forum here, so a condensed statement of the known issues is useful.

QuoteI was hoping this was the team acknowledging that work was needed, and that potentially work would be accepted into the core for a future version.

Consider that acknowledged.

QuoteThis in particular is a sticking point for me because I have a litany of features that would be great for a future version of SMF but no-one will give me any clue whatsoever if any of them *might* be included.

Well, I can't give a promise that all contributions will be approved before they are submitted, but if you have specific things in mind that you want to discuss before starting work on them, that's a great idea.

Regarding the nice list of issues you gave above, I can definitely say that we will want to include fixes for the first three in a patch for SMF 2.1.x. Regarding the fourth, I can't yet say whether changes to the UI would make it into a patch or would need to wait for a future version. It would depend on the nature of the proposed changes. We try to avoid changing the template files after a release, because we want to minimize the risk of breaking third party themes, but that's not an iron-clad prohibition. But even if proposed changes cannot be included in a patch, I would very much like to improve the attachments UI in a future version.

QuoteI'm fairly sure you think my stance is unreasonable,

??? I have no particular opinion about that, actually. Your time is your own. I have no problem or concerns with how you choose to use it or with what criteria you use in making decisions in that regard.
Slava Ukraini!
Heroiam slava!

I promise you nothing.

Sesqu... Sesqui... what?
Sesquipedalian, the best word in the English language.

Antechinus

Quote from: Sesquipedalian on May 27, 2022, 02:34:17 PMRegarding the fourth, I can't yet say whether changes to the UI would make it into a patch or would need to wait for a future version. It would depend on the nature of the proposed changes.

I can summarise the proposed changes for you. There is already working code for them too. Personally I'm happy to do it as a mod, or just custom coding tips, if the team don't want to make it a patch (a mod is basically a patch anyway). Anyway...

1/ No "Upload" or "Upload all" button. I understand the rationale for including them, but people are used to simpler interfaces which upload instantly, and such interfaces seem to work well in practice.

Provisional working code for that is in this post: https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?msg=4126332

2/  Naturally, this also means the "Cancel all" button is probably superfluous, but the individual "Cancel" buttons for each file should stay.

3/ As for rest of the interface, by default it has three main issues:

    a/ The dropbox/upload button is underneath the attachments previews, which means that each time you want to add another attachment you have to chase things up and down the page. Honestly, this is pretty much designed for maximum inconvenience.

    b/ The previews are ordered with the earliest one at the top and the newest at the bottom, which compounds the previous issue. If the dropbox goes under the textarea and above the previews (and it really should) it's better for the newest attachment preview to be at the top so you can always see it immediately. That can be fixed just with CSS changes (slightly convoluted, but not a big deal).

    c/ The post/preview/drafts buttons should be directly under the textarea, between it and the dropbox. Again, to minimise chasing things up and down the page.

    d/ This one is fairly minor, but IMO worth doing: in practice the post options are rarely used, and they don't take up much space anyway. I'm inclined to leave them on permanent display below the drafts. Having them between the textarea and the attachments will just be a nuisance for most people, most of the time. It's better if they are out of the way.

Apart from that it's going to come down to personal preference for how much the display of previews is simplified. Given that people will be uploading a range of things (not just holiday snaps) I think it's worth having the file name and size displayed by default. Anyone who doesn't want them can always hide them with a bit of custom CSS.

This is what I'm running at the moment, and I think it's pretty good: https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?msg=4126746

Sir Osis of Liver

Ant - uploaded your zip to clean 2.1.2 install, much is broken.  Do you have working files?
"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Antechinus

Yes, those are working files. They are running live on my test site, with no issues (apart from the profile menu in the top bar, which I haven't bothered fixing yet).

Those files are me trying to get 2.1 sorted so I like it, and they are WIP. Frizzle wanted to take a look at what I had so far, so i zipped it. If you don't like it, at this stage I don't care. Go code something you like. That's what I'm doing. :D

Antechinus

Ok, somehow I forgot to include three template in that zip. No idea how, since other templates went in, but whatever. So...

Sir Osis of Liver

Quote from: Antechinus on May 28, 2022, 03:14:49 AMIf you don't like it, at this stage I don't care.

Didn't say didn't like, stuff doesn't work or is missing altogether.  Will try templates you posted.

QuoteGo code something you like.

Been doing that, keeping it simple.  Will pm access, if you get a minute take a look.


"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Sir Osis of Liver

Ok, mostly working now (except user dropmenu). 

Things I like -

Attachments:  Simple and compact.  Don't need the collapse/uncollapse button, should always be open.  And collapsible additional post options in post settings should always be disabled (never understood why that's there).  Could do without max_files_progress bar, pretty much just decorative and doesn't always work.  Also I'd remove post options, nobody uses them.

Things I don't like -

ACP:  First off, main menu admin button doesn't take you to ACP, just opens/closes dropmenu.  Mostly, when you click on menu items, it looks like nothing happens, as working parts are offscreen, have to scroll down to see what's there.  With sidebars content appears next to menu, not below, like that better.  Just have to get around to doing something with all the crap that's next to sidebars when you first get to ACP, put something else there.
"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Antechinus

Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on May 28, 2022, 06:01:34 PMOk, mostly working now (except user dropmenu). 

Things I like -

Attachments:  Simple and compact.  Don't need the collapse/uncollapse button, should always be open.  And collapsible additional post options in post settings should always be disabled (never understood why that's there).  Could do without max_files_progress bar, pretty much just decorative and doesn't always work.  Also I'd remove post options, nobody uses them.
1/ I like it collapsed by default, but that's an admin setting anyway. And yes, I removed the conditional for it (mine just does collapsed by default) but it could easily go back in.

2/ The progress bar is handy for a visual representation of where you are in relation to the kB limit. Most of the time it works. If Sesq and Co. tweak the code, it might even work all the time. :D

3/ Post options are worth keeping, and are mostly out of the way. They're useful if you need to edit a post as a moderator or admin, and move it or sticky it or whatever.

Also, just removing them has some tricky bits. For example, I've hidden the label/checkbox for "Return to topic" because returning to the topic by default is a profile option, so I saw no reason to have it in the post options too. But, if you remove it entirely, for some obscure reason (haven't looked yet) it breaks the profile setting. Personally I would call this a bug (removing the label/checkbox from post options should NOT override the profile setting) but at this stage I can't be bothered chasing it down, so just went with hiding the mongrel. :P

QuoteThings I don't like -
Refer to my previous statement re this. :D :P

QuoteACP:  First off, main menu admin button doesn't take you to ACP, just opens/closes dropmenu.
Yes, I know. It uses click activation for all drop menus, just like the top bar drops do by default. In other word: it is consistent, not just with the top bar but with touchscreen too. Consistent UX across devices is not a bug. It's a feature.

However, at some point I will be coding a complete fallback to no-js hover-activated drops (which may include keyboard access to drop menu content). This will be selectable via a profile option, with automatic default click activation on touchscreen (which is something that needs to be specifically coded, since pure CSS hover-activated drops "work" on touchscreen, but are crap on touchscreen).

QuoteMostly, when you click on menu items, it looks like nothing happens, as working parts are off screen,
No, they aren't. They're all right in front of you. :P

QuoteYou have to scroll down to see what's there.
Welcome to web site pages, You'll love them.

QuoteWith sidebars content appears next to menu, not below, like that better.
Refer to my previous statement re... :D

QuoteJust have to get around to doing something with all the crap that's next to sidebars when you first get to ACP, put something else there.
IMO that whole page is pretty much pointless. There's nothing here that isn't handled on other pages.

Steve

Please do not PM me for support.

FrizzleFried


Arantor

It was split off and then then merged into https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=582515.0 where my thoughts and screenshots are contained. Since it's merged, it no longer exists on its own.

Oddly one of the few times I'd wished that posting order was more malleable than 'the order posts were physically made in' as I fear the last post in the topic is the one that's most interesting.

Sir Osis of Liver

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Steve

If Arantor gives the okay, I'll move that topic to a forum you all can see, like this one.
Please do not PM me for support.

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