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Rethinking the ACP home page

Started by Arantor, May 28, 2022, 06:25:58 PM

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Sir Osis of Liver

Interestingly, all of the ACPs you posted above use sidebars, and some have news in various forms.  I don't see a big difference in some of them from what I posted.  What are we not agreeing on?  And as far as doing this for future versions, I'm 72, waiting for 2.2 or 3.0 is not an option for me.  Don't see why something like this couldn't be integrated into 2.1 via the usual upgrade route.  If I can cobble it together with my limited skills (or lack thereof), should be able to patch 2.1 to make it better.  Same with attachments.  I've got this stuff running on test forums, what's the big deal?
"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Sir Osis of Liver

If you wanted to do something a bit more original, you could use the cpanel menu from 2.1 core.  I don't like it because you have to go back to menu to select different option, but it's familiar to most users.  You could put whatever in right blocks. Something like this -
"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Arantor

Some of us have aspirations about a 2.2 being somewhat *less* than 'years away' and a desire to try to improve it for everyone rather than the few who will install yet more mods.

Sir Osis of Liver

Why is it such a problem to update 2.1 core with some of these proposed improvements?  Do you really think 2.2 development will a whole lot different from 2.1?

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Arantor

Because I think if we start doing that, we'll just delay 2.2 the same way 2.1 was delayed. I for one don't want that.

Kindred

Because 2.1 is released.
That means that the next branch with NEW features and redesigns is 2.2.

Point releases are bug fixes and security updates.
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Sir Osis of Liver

Flexibilty is usually a good thing, and somewhat lacking here.
"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Antechinus

Flexibility is good. Turning stable releases upside down and inside out is not good. That just drives themers and modders and normal admins and normal users up the wall, and makes them think it's not worth coding anything or using the unstable version until things are stable again.

If you want to modify 2.1 to suit yourself, nobody is stopping you.

Sir Osis of Liver

I've done that for myself, and am satisfied with the results, but it's of little use to others who will have to deal with 2.1 as it now stands until 2.2 is released, if ever. 
"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Kindred

<yawn>

Obviously you are not someone who has ever worked in software release.

2.1 is released
New development of features and major changes gets done in the NEXT branch, not the point releases.
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Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Sir Osis of Liver

#30
Quote from: Kindred on June 01, 2022, 01:31:58 AMNew development of features and major changes

Not quite the same as fixing things that are screwed up in current release.  Some of the proposed changes are just css, or minor edits to templates or js.  Things that should have been addressed before release. 
"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Kindred

except that the ACP is not "screwed up"

The ACP is perfectly functional.
Just because you don't happen to LIKE it does not mean that it is broken or screwed up.

Redesigning the ACP is a feature change.
Properly, feature changed are next version tasks.
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Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Arantor

The ACP front page is working as designed. There is literally no higher authority on the planet that can tell you that, because I am literally the person who designed it as a replacement to 2.0's, which had the same blocks up top, but instead of an overview of all the items, it gave you big fuzzy icons for 8 items of the admin panel, which were also things people didn't normally go to that often.

It has in fact been working as designed since I announced it publicly in November 2013 - https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=513789.0

This topic's purpose is an acknowledgement that I was wrong and that it can be improved, but that whatever you want to do with your own forum for your own purposes is *not* necessarily the same as what the next version of SMF itself should do.

Building it as a mod now means making the next version later. You don't want it to be years away? Neither do I but the only way to get there is to *not split the workload in the first place*.

Sir Osis of Liver

I understand that, but this seems to be an exceptional situation.  2.1 was released in Feb, just a few months ago, after ten years of development, and we're already talking about 2.2.  We've seen this before with 2.0 updates, but 2.1 is a new branch, and there seems to be some agreement that it's seriously flawed.  Isn't there a better path to expedite fixes for the more obvious problems?


"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley." - Robert Burns

Oldiesmann

The more changes we make for 2.1 patches, the bigger chance there is that it will break a theme and/or mod. The whole point of patches is to fix minor bugs and security issues, not rewrite/redesign entire sections.
Michael Eshom
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davo88


Quote from: Arantor... because I am literally the person who designed it as a replacement to 2.0's... I was wrong and that it can be improved...
So if you were designing it again now, have you had any thoughts about what direction you might be inclined to take it?

Arantor

@davo88 It's funny, I thought I actually did that in post #4 (or, the opening post when I made this topic)

@Sir Osis of Liver, you deeply misunderstand my intent here. For normal platforms that have a healthy development process, you ship a version, then you collect feedback for it, then you plan the next version. The fact 2.1 took so long is the outlier here and trying to re-rail the project by getting people talking and thinking about how to improve it for *everyone* is how we get there. You see, normal projects with a contributor base this size ship a new version every 18 months, 2 years max. Hell, this project used to do that - SMF started life in 2003 and was at 1.1 by 2006.

Then again I am a bit concerned that in the 4 months since 2.1's release there doesn't appear to be much of a roadmap for anyone outside the team, which is a shame because it shuts down people like me who have time, energy and code to share.

Steve

Quote from: Arantor on May 30, 2022, 01:40:25 PMWhen I wrote it, of course, it was the first post in the topic.
Quote from: Arantor on June 02, 2022, 04:15:12 AM@davo88 It's funny, I thought I actually did that in post #4 (or, the opening post when I made this topic)
Just not going to let me forget I should have done the split differently, are you?  
Autocorrect is my worst enema.

Arantor

No, that's not what I'm getting at here - you're fighting a design constraint of SMF this time round. When you merge two topics, they get sorted by post id, not by logical order.

My snotty attitude here is "I did already cover this, plz read the topic", you're all good :) (it's just it's the second or third time I've had to point out that I did a study in what everyone else was doing, why, and what I would do with it)

Steve

I know. I was just kidding with you. Though in retrospect, I should have done it differently.

Back on topic ... ;D
Autocorrect is my worst enema.

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