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Zoom incompatibility with Firefox?

Started by DEG 1935, March 22, 2024, 02:45:54 PM

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DEG 1935

I believe I have found and incompatibility between SMF and Firefox:

I have set the zoom in FF to 120% standardwise. As long as I don't touch this, everything is okay with SMF, the zoom stays at 120% on each page.

But if I just temporarily increase (Ctrl+) or decrease (Ctrl-) the FF zoom and then return to the original zoom of 120%, SMF (and only SMF) resets the zoom of each new page that is being loaded to 100%.

Replicable?

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Nope. Not happening to me. Win 11 Pro + FF 124.0.1 (64-bit)

Steps I took.

- Set Browser to 120% through menu.
- Navigate to a different page, and then back
- Used shortcuts to change zoom to 110%, and then back to 120%
- Navigate to a different page, and then back

Result: Zoom still 120%.

That said, I would assume SMF to have absolutely no control over the browser zoom level anyways, so would not immediately suspect SMF even if I were able to replicate it.
Slava
Ukraini!
"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

How you can help SMF

DEG 1935

You are talking about different pages within SMF, right?

Strange, as it happens here with SMF only (this site and my own forum).

And yes, it can (and likely will) also be FF which resets the zoom to 100%, but why with SMF only?

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

#3
Yes, different locations within SMF. And tested on this forum.

Edit:
Repeated this a few times, and noticed that zoom changes are respected within FF even between different tabs, this was new to me - but, no issues that I can see with the level resetting itself.
Slava
Ukraini!
"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

How you can help SMF

Kindred

Can not replicate.

I use Firefox as my primary browser.  It always keeps the same zoom I set during the last visit on smf same as every other site.
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

DEG 1935

Quote from: Kindred on March 23, 2024, 11:11:26 PMCan not replicate.

I use Firefox as my primary browser.  It always keeps the same zoom I set during the last visit on smf same as every other site.

Yes, same here. But in the case of SMF only if I leave the FF zoom untouched and do not change it with Ctrl+ or Ctrl-. Once I have done that just one time, any page in SMF (and only SMF!) reverts back to 100%.

I thought my FF might probably be just too "stressed" with approx. 90 open windows/tabs, so I closed and restarted it, and then opened this forum. Same thing. :(

Win10 Pro 22H2 19045.3996, FF 115.9.0esr

I'm not saying that SMF is the one and only cause, that's why the thread title says "incompatibility". But as this happens with SMF only, SMF is clearly one of the causes.

Kindred

Except, I literally can not replicate your report.
All of my smf windows/tabs keep the zoom that I set them at when I close and reopen

Tried on 6 different smf sites with different themes to be sure.

Even when I was using the ESR version, it kept the zoom.
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

TwitchisMental

Do you have any extensions/plugins installed on firefox?

DEG 1935

Quote from: TwitchisMental on March 24, 2024, 12:00:18 AMDo you have any extensions/plugins installed on firefox?

Sure (good question, thanks!):

  • Firefox DevTools ADB Extension
  • MySessions
  • SQLite Manager
  • To Google Translate
  • uBlock Origin (of course!)
  • WX Download Status Bar

That's it. "MySessions" might be a candidate. Will test to disable all of them one by one. But not now. ;)

Before FF did implement the zoom as a core feature, I had "Zoom Page WE" installed, but that is disabled since then.

DEG 1935

Quote from: DEG 1935 on March 24, 2024, 12:23:02 AM
Quote from: TwitchisMental on March 24, 2024, 12:00:18 AMDo you have any extensions/plugins installed on firefox?
Sure (good question, thanks!):

  • Firefox DevTools ADB Extension
  • MySessions
  • SQLite Manager
  • To Google Translate
  • uBlock Origin (of course!)
  • WX Download Status Bar

That's it. "MySessions" might be a candidate. Will test to disable all of them one by one. But not now. ;)

Before FF did implement the zoom as a core feature, I had "Zoom Page WE" installed, but that is disabled since then.

Did disable all add-ons one by one: No change, still 100% replicable. One observation I made: If I close the tab and open this or my own SMF forum in a new tab, the problem is gone (until it occurs again once I played with the zoom).

Damn. :(

Diego Andrés

I cannot reproduce.

I'm posting this on 220% zoom on Firefox v124

SMF Tricks - Free & Premium Responsive Themes for SMF.

DEG 1935

Quote from: Diego Andrés on March 24, 2024, 04:20:56 PMI cannot reproduce.

I'm posting this on 220% zoom on Firefox v124

Not sure if you catched the issue: I can also post with 220% zoom and FF, that's not my problem.

But if I change my standard zoom level (120%) with Ctrl+ or Ctrl-, then return to the standard zoom (with just clicking on the current/changed zoom level display right next to the URL field), then the standard zoom level (120%) is indeed restored for this page and for the moment. BUT:

When I then load any other page within SMF, it's being displayed with 100%. And that applies even to the page where I just came from if I click the back button of the browser (which had just before being displayed with the standard zoom of 120%).

This is driving me nuts, honestly. And again, it's with SMF only. I still need to check what happens with Chrome and Edge. Will revert.

shawnb61

I'm away from my computer for a couple weeks, so cannot verify this...

But my understanding is that the zoom button on the FF address bar is a "reset zoom to 100%" button.  Exactly as if you did a ctl +/- to 100%, meaning you reset the default for the site you are viewing.

So, the behavior you describe "for SMF only" is, I think, correct.

If other sites do not behave that way, I suspect you're viewing cached, somewhat static, pages.  You may need to force a refresh. 

Just a thought.

The zoom is a browser function.  I'm fairly certain SMF doesn't touch it. 

My suspicion is that you're seeing different behavior for SMF since the pages are dynamic.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

DEG 1935

Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMBut my understanding is that the zoom button on the FF address bar is a "reset zoom to 100%" button.  Exactly as if you did a ctl +/- to 100%, meaning you reset the default for the site you are viewing.

Nope, it's not. The click on the zoom level in the address bar resets the zoom to the standard level (in my case 120%).

Normally you don't see any zoom level on the address bar (then you know that the standard zoom is active). But once you change the zoom with Ctrl+/-, the current/changed zoom is displayed on the address bar (say 100% for instance). Then you know that the page is viewed with a non-standard zoom. If you then click on the "100%", the zoom resets to the standard zoom (120%), and the display of the zoom level in the address bar disappears. I mean, I can see that the zoom gets changed from 100% to 120% right after the click on the "100%". I'm not the youngest anymore, but not that old.

The thing just is that this is the last time you can see any SMF page in 120%. Load any other SMF page, go back to this previous page - all 100%. :(

Where does your understanding come from...?

Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMSo, the behavior you describe "for SMF only" is, I think, correct.

If other sites do not behave that way, I suspect you're viewing cached, somewhat static, pages.  You may need to force a refresh.

Errm, NO! I have about 90 tabs open, am switching from tab to tab, work actively with them (also other forums), tested it with lots of them. No site behaves like SMF (here). Plus that what you do in one tab, does have zero effect to any other tab in FF anyway.

Honestly, even if no one has a clue what might be going on here, I would be grateful if people would at least believe me. Suspicions and (inapplicable) understandings don't really help.

P.S.: A quick check with Chrome proves that this problem occurs with FF only (although the handling of the zoom level in Chrome is not as comfortable and transparent as in FF.)

Sesquipedalian

It's not that people don't believe you. It's that no one else can reproduce the problem. That means there is something unexpected going on in your specific situation.

People here have been trying to help you figure out what could be causing this behaviour, but they can only guess and make suggestions for things you could try.
I promise you nothing.

Sesqu... Sesqui... what?
Sesquipedalian, the best word in the English language.

DEG 1935

Quote from: Sesquipedalian on March 24, 2024, 11:41:29 PMIt's not that people don't believe you. It's that no one else can reproduce the problem. That means there is something unexpected going on in your specific situation.

People here have been trying to help you figure out what could be causing this behaviour, but they can only guess and make suggestions for things you could try.

Sorry, but this for instance...

Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMBut my understanding is that the zoom button on the FF address bar is a "reset zoom to 100%" button.

...ist simply WRONG and not helpful at all (really, how can have an experienced and clever developer such a wrong understanding of a simple FF function?). And this...

Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMIf other sites do not behave that way, I suspect you're viewing cached, somewhat static, pages.

...insinuates as if I wouldn't have thoroughly tested all other sites and pages before I wrote my initial post in this thread.

I may be not too familiar with PHP and CSS nowadays, but I've been a Borland Pascal developer (as I said in my very first post in this forum). I'm not posting crap here, and I'm still "IT affine", so to say. Therefore I feel insulted and as an idiot if I'm being told "You may need to force a refresh". This you can tell a 16-year old person who has never seen anything else than just a smartphone. I started with DOS 3.x on a command line, FidoNet and other mailbox networks with a 2k modem, long before the Internet was even publicly available.

So please no wild guessing anymore. If there will be no solution, then there will be no solution. But if there is a helpful clue/idea, please post.

Diego Andrés

Perhaps a video would best describe your issue.

SMF Tricks - Free & Premium Responsive Themes for SMF.

Sesquipedalian

#17
Quote from: DEG 1935 on March 25, 2024, 02:09:49 AM
Quote from: Sesquipedalian on March 24, 2024, 11:41:29 PMIt's not that people don't believe you. It's that no one else can reproduce the problem. That means there is something unexpected going on in your specific situation.

People here have been trying to help you figure out what could be causing this behaviour, but they can only guess and make suggestions for things you could try.

Sorry, but this for instance...

Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMBut my understanding is that the zoom button on the FF address bar is a "reset zoom to 100%" button.

...ist simply WRONG and not helpful at all (really, how can have an experienced and clever developer such a wrong understanding of a simple FF function?). And this...

Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMIf other sites do not behave that way, I suspect you're viewing cached, somewhat static, pages.

...insinuates as if I wouldn't have thoroughly tested all other sites and pages before I wrote my initial post in this thread.

I may be not too familiar with PHP and CSS nowadays, but I've been a Borland Pascal developer (as I said in my very first post in this forum). I'm not posting crap here, and I'm still "IT affine", so to say. Therefore I feel insulted and as an idiot if I'm being told "You may need to force a refresh". This you can tell a 16-year old person who has never seen anything else than just a smartphone. I started with DOS 3.x on a command line, FidoNet and other mailbox networks with a 2k modem, long before the Internet was even publicly available.

So please no wild guessing anymore. If there will be no solution, then there will be no solution. But if there is a helpful clue/idea, please post.

If you have such a long history of experience with software development and support, you should clearly understand the meaning of the sentence, "We cannot reproduce your issue." It means that following the instructions you gave do not produce the same results for others that they produce for you. This usually indicates that there is something unique in the configuration of your system that is causing the issue. Unfortunately, that also means that other people trying to help you must make guesses and suggest tests in order to try to diagnose the cause of the problem.

If you feel insulted by the suggestions and advice you are given by people trying to help you diagnose the cause of your issue, that is an emotional response on your own part. No one has actually insulted you.

At any rate, since:

  • you are certain that you have already thought of everyone else's ideas and that you have eliminated all possible causes that those suggestions might uncover, and
  • you are nevertheless unable to find or provide any information about what is unique on your system that causes it to produce different results than it does for anyone else,

... it therefore seems clear to me that further attempts on our part to help you diagnose the problem on your system are unlikely to succeed.

To recap: The issue you have described seems to be unique to you; no one else can reproduce the problem. This strongly suggests that there is something unusual or unexpected in your browser's configuration. People here have been trying to help you figure out what that might be, but since no one else has access to your system, they can only make educated guesses and suggestions about things you could try. If you are unwilling to set aside your ego and methodically test these suggestions in order to identify the cause of the problem, there is very little that anyone else can do to help you.
I promise you nothing.

Sesqu... Sesqui... what?
Sesquipedalian, the best word in the English language.

Steve

Be careful. You've had your attitude brought up before.
DO NOT pm me for support!

m4z

Quote from: DEG 1935 on March 25, 2024, 02:09:49 AM
Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMBut my understanding is that the zoom button on the FF address bar is a "reset zoom to 100%" button.

...ist simply WRONG [...] (really, how can have an experienced and clever developer such a wrong understanding of a simple FF function?).

It's clearly stated as an assumption. How can a "I think it works like this" statement be wrong?
And to answer your question: Shawn might not use that feature much (but still wanted to help). At least I do not.


Quote from: DEG 1935 on March 25, 2024, 02:09:49 AMAnd this...

Quote from: shawnb61 on March 24, 2024, 09:43:43 PMIf other sites do not behave that way, I suspect you're viewing cached, somewhat static, pages.

...insinuates as if I wouldn't have thoroughly tested all other sites and pages before I wrote my initial post in this thread.

[...]. Therefore I feel insulted and as an idiot if I'm being told "You may need to force a refresh". This you can tell a 16-year old person who has never seen anything else than just a smartphone. [...]

So please no wild guessing anymore. If there will be no solution, then there will be no solution. But if there is a helpful clue/idea, please post.

I work as an admin / IT support guy for a company of 90% IT professionals (university degree or doctor's degree). The standard questions always contain things like "Does it work after a reboot?", "Does it work in another browser?", "Does it work in a private browsing session without any add-ons?", and about 75% of the time, these things had not been tested by these professionals (and fix their problem).

You can be incredibly smart and at the same time not think of many "obvious" fixes or tests, depending on your context, or you can be too interested in the cause of the problem instead of just trying that damn reboot. (Right now we might not care as much as you about why your problem happens, only if and how it can be reproduced for a significant number of users. If we can reproduce it, then the why will be more interesting.)

I don't care to read this thread again, but I think you didn't specify before that you already tried shift-reloading, so it's no wonder somebody brought it up, trying to limit the scope of the problem in an attempt to help you.
Instead of reading "you're stupid" into the answers of the people trying to help you, be glad they're still trying to help. (The end of you last post screamed "please don't help me, your help sucks".)

So let's try this for ideas:
1.) Since it only occurs on FF (and you don't seem to want to use another browser), does it work in a private browsing session without any add-ons? (I can't reproduce your problem this way; if I set the default zoom to 110% in the settings, then increase to 120% in an SMF tab, FF will remember that when I click on SMF navigation links, and if I then return to the default zoom (either by clicking on the address bar or using crtl-+/-), FF will remember that too (both for links clicked in the same tab and in new tabs).)
"Faith is what you have in things that don't exist."
--Homer Simpson

Es gibt hier im Forum ein deutsches Support-Board!

shawnb61

Back in town, & now have access to a desktop computer...  ::)

I see this behavior consistently across all SMF and non-SMF sites in FF:
 - There is a global Default Zoom found under Settings | General (pic 1).  This global default applies to all sites.
 - You can overwrite the current zoom by ctl +/- or with the mouse & mouse wheel.  When the current zoom matches the default zoom, the current zoom setting is not indicated on the URL bar (pic 2).  When the current zoom does not match the default zoom, the current zoom setting is indicated on the URL bar (pic 3).
 - FF automatically remembers the last zoom used for each domain & subdomain.  If you navigate away & come back, your last zoom for that site is recalled.  If you have multiple tabs open for the same site, they will all immediately reflect any updates to that site's zoom.
 - If you click on the zoom indicator on the URL bar, you reset to the global Default Zoom.  This will also update current site's zoom to the global Default Zoom.

As noted before, SMF does not override zoom behavior.  This is all browser behavior.

If confusing behavior is seen it's possible that (a) different subdomains are involved, e.g., on this site, if you go to the customization, download or wiki sites, an updated zoom is not reflected since they all use different subdomains, or (b) a custom theme may have issued a zoom directive.

If you're still seeing issues, I'd try clearing the site settings in FF (pic 4).  That clears all your saved zoom info for all sites.  Maybe there's an FF glitch there.

I've never used the global Default Zoom before, when I need zoom on a site I just zoom.  I could see where it might be handy to some.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

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