Joomla / SMF / Community Builder Integration - Seeking Donations

[Gregorius]

I'm currently updating my website, hxxp:www.doofcentral.com [nonactive], to Joomla (biiig job) and really want to use SMF as my forum instead of Simpleboard...

I'm wondering what sort of integration is currently available between SMF & CB?  Would it be advisable to wait a little while until the integration is better (at the level of Simpleboard), or are all the features already available?

Sorry if this has been discussed before, please feel free to point me towards updated integration posts/ resources instead of answering if the question has already been addressed.

Also, what work is being done to integrate these systems more tightly? is it in active development or is this just a pipe dream?

thanks guys
Greg

ps: i love SMF - its my favourite forum system, so really hoping the integration will reach the same level as Simpleboard has.

[Kindred]

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=57415.0

The answer is:

the bridge already works with CB, but no further, close-knit integration is planned at this point.  If you (or someone you know) knows how to code php and wants to... feel free.

[Gregorius]

That's a pity... now i guess i have to decide what is more important - the better (IMO) forum system, or the better integration.

damn decisions.

thanks for the info
greg

[Claudek]

I would recommend some patience. There appears to be a bit of work already being commenced on some sort of bridge/integration and would be a good bet that a solution will be found soon. Also check the Joomla forums as I noticed some commercial components people who are working on integrating CB,SMF,Joomla and subscription services.

[geeffland]

I too was hoping for some integration with CB 1.0 RC2 but in my test installations they do not work together well RC2 and SMF... Seemed to work on a previous test with Joomla 1.0.3 and SMF 1.1...  Really liked how they worked together but don't seem to get too many answers here about if anyone is working on a CB RC2 plugin.  Have even seen some posts which indicate that SMF has no desire for such a plugin.

I have been testing a plugin for CB 1 RC2 that will integrate phpBB.... might be a bad post here on a SMF forum but thought you might be interested.  Current plugin does not automatically start a session but I sent the author a few ideas that he is planning on integrating so that sessions will be automatically started (i.e. 1 login for both the Joomla and forum sessions)  both sets of users are currently synchronized real time just need to put the last piece in so you don't have to login in twice.  I would expect it within the next few weeks at the most.  Check the Joomlapolis forums and you can e-mail the author directly... martijn189 or martijn198... don't remember the number after his name

[Kindred]

once again, you people (who I am beginning to think might be the same person with multiple accounts... how many single post users do we have thatcome in to say this one thing and then leave?)...   you people seem to be under the mistaken impression that anyone in this section is speaking for SMF as a whole...

Just about everyone who has weighed in on this topic is a USER.

most of the USERS have indicated that CB is not a huge deal to them... (and in my personal opinion, I dislike CB)
Apart from an apparently vocal minority who have threatened to not use SMF or (as in your case) suggested theuse of another forum, most of us don't really seem to care.

The point, of course, is that Orstio, as the main developer of the bridge has indicated that he is working on bridges to other systems, supporting the current mambo/joomla bridge and that he has no current plans to increase the integration to CB any further than it already is...   This does not mean that someone else can not do so...

And, if you people are so big on it, why don't you do it?
Or, if you can not, pay someone to do so...  I (as I have noted above) have absolutely no use for CB...  but I have also indicated in previous posts that I would be willing to take a look at coding it, if people want it bad enough to pay for the development.

[Gregorius]

Hi All,

Jeez looks like i opened up a can of worms here... sorry didn't mean to get people so fired up... maybe everybody should take a chill pill or something.

anyway, I do want to use CB on my site, and i like SMF forum the best out of them all... even prefer it to phpBB.  I like how it integrates tightly with Joomla, so was really hoping i could use this forum with CB.  Thanks for the heads up on other developers doing some work to integrate them better... althought i havent had time to look into this further.

Also, thanks for the heads  up on phpBB, but i think i'd rather stick with Joomla board (which already integrates tightly with CB and Joomla) than move to phpBB.. if i make a move, it'll be to SMF or nothing at all.

Please do keep me posted if there are further developments in CB/SMF integration, but for now i think JoomlaBoard is my easiest/ best option.

Cheers
greg

[chadness]

That's all right, Greg.  Thanks for being proactive and constructive.  It's nice to see someone who wants this actually putting in some work to get what they need working.

[Gregorius]

Thanks Chad...

Unfortunatly i dont have a huge amount of time to devote to actually bridging it myself, nor the php skills to do it... i used to code php a while back, but before i got really good i switched to ASP/ ASP.NET.  I used DotNetNuke for my last client website, and must say i completely regret it.. wish i'd just stuck with Mambo.. its so much better... mainly in speed - DNN got some serious speed issues, which is really frustrating.

Anyway, if i can help anybody somehow to improve CB/SMF integration, feel free to contact me.. not sure what i could do, but happy to help wherever i can... its an important feature to me and my site, so i do hope it'll get off the ground properly soon.

[geeffland]

Knidred,

I can assure you that I am a unique poster and not some other person posting under multiple ids.  My problems that I have had with SMF are that when questions are asked about CB integration there is either no answer (refer to one of my previous posts http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=58506.0 That was posted on November 28th... 2 weeks ago... I don't see anyone posting answers there Users or developers.  As you can see I am politely asking what the status is. )

OR we get some inflammed response about how CB sucks and how anyone in their right mind would not use it.  It is this intense negative response about CB that is really pushing me away from SMF.  Show me another component that works with Joomla that allows the same level of customization for the registration process and user profiles and I will peek at it but to date I have found no better component for that.

If you don't want anything to do with CB then just say so and those of us that are waiting on that will get out of your hair.  I have not personally dug enough to see the differences between phpBB and SMF but if one works with CB and the other doesn't then that is the main difference.  At this point I am desiring the features of CB over either forum. 

For whats its worth, If there is someone making a CB plugin for SMF I would be more than happy to review and help with it as well.

Starting to get irritated with the negative responses.  In the case of my earlier post it would have even been nice to get a response that "Its not high on our priorities right now but thanks for asking"... instead of the no response I got

Greg

ps.
If most users don't use CB or dislike CB... How many is most?  Might be an eye-opening poll to post on this forum somewhere highly visible...

[Gregorius]

I have an idea... if its so low on people's priority list to integrate SMF and CB, perhaps those of us that actually want the integration can pool together a bit of cash and pay a developer to do the integration for us?

Any takers?

Any developers out there care to throw a price at us for what this would be worth?

[rlhenson]

I have not been on this site for several weeks just because of this negative attitude towards CB. Hell I don't think there was this much negativism with the Mambo Joomla split. As to donating to a developer to do it, I would but don't think it wold get any real serious development from anyone here as they are so negative. Might check back in a few weeks again to see if the hot heads have cooled down any...

[Aravot]

I for one not interested in CB yet, however if there are interested parties one could setup a fundraiser to raise money find a coder and voila!! SMF plug-in for CB is born.

If I remember correctly Kindred said he might be interested.

[Gregorius]

I like it Aravot...

So how about we start looking for a developer who can do this, and get quote on how much it would cost to do so?  Perhaps even the CB guys would do it, if we're willing to pay for it?

How about a show of hands who is willing to contribute, and how much?

SMF developers, would you be prepared to help out in some way?  After all, i think you guys have more to gain out of such an integration than anybody.

[rlhenson]

I'd be willing to pitch in $20 so long as it was a serious bug free development.

[Orstio]

Just so you are aware, Gregorius, your constructive posts on the matter are appreciated.  

It's nice to see posts from a CB supporter that is willing to do something, instead of whine about how others will not.

[Aravot]

Count me in for $10 USD

Where to look for developer(s)

Joomlancers

Before we go shopping I say lets see if any of SMF developers would be interested since they know their product.

My opinion

• The component MUST be combatible with Orstio's bridge
• Should be cleared by the developer(s) that after completion of the project the component will be release to the community for free.

[Gregorius]

Thanks for the encouragement Orstio... i'm just a guy, who runs a portal website (with absolutely no profit from it), wanting to enhance my users' experience through a better forum system and Community Builder features. I'm sure there's lots out there like me, they just don't speak up as loudly as i do.

Thanks to Aravot and RlHenson for your offers.  So far we have US$30 towards the cause... still a long way to go, but its a good start for less than an hour's appeal. 

And yes, i completely agree with you Aravot... compatible with Orstio's bridge is a good thing, and free to the community good thing too.  Provided it doesnt end up leaving any of us majorly out of pocket.

I reckon a good plan of attack would be to appeal in various places for offers of donations, collate all of these into an approximate final figure, and then go to developers with our requirements, and an offer of what we have potentially arranged through expressions of interest... sound good?  Any other suggestions?

[Aravot]

I am not familiar with CB, I checked it over at http://www.joomlapolis.com it seems it's an extension of Joomla adding's various fields like location, birth, signature and etc which are available in SMF that is why I said I have no interest in CB yet, so if this is going to happen must be coded in such a way that data modified in CB reflect in SMF and visa-versa (don't want to change birthday in two places).

One of us perhaps you Gregorius since you started it can setup an account over at https://www.fundable.org than advertise in various Joomla/SMF message boards, but after finding how much it would cost to code.

[Gregorius]

Yup i'm happy to setup and manage the fundable account, but i think its important to first get an indication of what its going to cost, and with the preliminary show of hands, if we think its possible to reach that target.

Regarding CB, the features it adds are:
1. Increased profile options - birthdate, photo, affiliations, etc etc
2. Registration workflows
3. Connections - buddy lists
4. integration wtih PMS components
5. integration with blogs components

To be completely honest, i'm not 100% sure how many of these features are covered by SMF itself... perhaps somebody could outline exactly what integration Joomlaboard has over SMF with CB??

[rlhenson]

Just a couple of points:

As a plug-in it would not be compatible with any bridge. A full plug-in includes both the bridge and the integration, that is the purpose of the plug-in.

As to having the same things in the profile as SMF. The whole purpose of CB is that it becomes the central point for the profile, the login, the registration and the integration. Most of the things that integrate with CB that also have profile links are pointed back to CB. Seems kind of silly to have 4 or 5 different profiles scattered all over the place, keep it all centralized.

CB is more than just a profile extender though. I see all the time people saying that they can do the same thing by just adding a few fields in a forum. The fields that can be added in CB are a lot more powerful. The field types currently supported are:

• Checkbox (single)
• Checkbox (multiple)
• Date
• Dropdown (Single Select)
• Dropdown (Multi-Select)
• Email Address
• Editor Text Area
• Text Area
• Text Field
• Radio Button
• Web Address

Through the use of plug-ins the fields can be manipulated in many different ways. You can very easily create lists based on, sorted on, filtered on these different fields.

Another cool thing would be if everyone supported this as a central point for registration, login then all of the things that require login would be handled by this. In other words you could login through CB and you would simultaneously be also logged into Joomla/Mambo, SMF, your favorite picture gallery, Private Messages, Blogs, etc, etc. The sky is the limit.

It also has a nice registration work-flow, so if you want all emails validated that is done automatically. If you want to manually validate each registration then this is also available.

It also allows for connections to other users within your community. These connections can be set up where anyone can connect to anyone or you must get approval from the person you want to connect with. These connections can be private or public.

What I have listed above is just a small snippet of all the features of CB. I know that I have gone on a bit but I just get tired of people trying to say that CB is not really needed and can be replaced by extending something in a forum, nothing could be further from the truth. That is not to say that everyone will want or need it, but for those of us that do it can not be done with anything else currently available.

Just my 2 cents,

Rick

[Gregorius]

Thanks for the heads-up Rick...

Does anyone know the extent of the JoomlaBoard / Simpleboard integration with CB, and where SMF falls short of that level?

[Kindred]

So, essentially what you are asking for (Rick) is that the CB replace the SMF profile...   which works for some things, but not for all, since the SMF profile also handles the avatar, theme selection, usernames and passwords (among other things)

So, unless CB also can handle all the SMF fields, I think that the CB fields that also exist in the SMF profile need to be dupliucated in SMF, and CB can not be a full replacement...

[geeffland]

That should be workable.  I have not personally seen Orstio's bridge for Joomla but the Joomla hacks bidge did work nicely with CB before RC2.  Having peeked around at plugin code for other BBs with RC2 I can't imagine that it would be to difficult to make a SMF plugin.

The joomlahacks version merged the smf_users database with joomla's but it left the rest of the database tables alone.  As far as the fields you mentioned the only one that might need to be seperate would be the forum theme... since Joomla has its own theme.  The nice thing about CBs fields, if your interested, is that they are totally customizable... want a field for favorite sock color... just add it no coding required... no hack required... want to make it mandatory to register... then just select that option for that field... easy as can be with no worry about unpatching, updating, and repatching when a new version comes out.  Other than that Rick named quite a few so I won't repeat those again.

I had heard the Orstio's bridge was better than the Joomlahacks so I was interested in seeing his "in progress" version when it gets released.  (not rushing you here, or whining)

But after all of this negative feedback I need to know that it was out of being annoyed with the question.  If thats the case there are better ways to handle it then p-off the customers (even if its a free product).

[chadness]

But after all of this negative feedback I need to know that it was out of being annoyed with the question.  If thats the case there are better ways to handle it then p-off the customers (even if its a free product).

That's absolutely it, from what I can see.  And remember that the people being annoyed are just other end users like you.

Good luck on getting this going!

[Kindred]

geefland...

the problem with configuring CB to handle the avatars, etc is that those fields (form the SMF profile) are used throughout the SMF code...
So, essentially, what you are askign for (with a CB replacement for the SMF profile) is a complete re-write of SMF...

And, as far as I know, the joomlahacks version does not merge the user tables...  like Orstio's bridge, it copies the pertinent data from one table to the other.

[chadness]

Code Select Expand

[quote author=Kindred link=topic=60118.msg421596#msg421596 date=1134748605]
the problem with configuring CB to handle the avatars, etc is that those fields (form the SMF profile) are used throughout the SMF code...
So, essentially, what you are askign for (with a CB replacement for the SMF profile) is a complete re-write of SMF...

Could something be done like the bridge registration, where there is a seperate module or component that copies the makeAvatarChanges function?  You might run in to problems trying to get all of the settings like I do with the discussbot, but there's some possibilities.

Profile.php is huge - there would be a lot to duplicate if this route is taken.

And, as far as I know, the joomlahacks version does not merge the user tables...  like Orstio's bridge, it copies the pertinent data from one table to the other.

I think it has that ability, but I think what it usually does is register and login the users in both at the same time, like Orstio's does.  Just to make sure we're clear for geefland.

[Orstio]

The joomlahacks version merged the smf_users database with joomla's but it left the rest of the database tables alone.

That's not at all what it did.  It accomplished migrating user data from Mambo to SMF by sending the data via the query string, which, first, I would never recommend (unencrypted passwords should NEVER be sent via query string), and second, won't even be possible in SMF 1.1 RC2, because the login form does not accept input via $_GET because of an annoying little XSS issue.  So, that method is neither recommended (for security reasons), nor will it work in future versions of SMF.

I have talked with Cowboy about the query string issue, and I believe he has a better solution for the latest versions.

[geeffland]

I stand corrected.  I re-looked at the databases and you are correct  there still is a smf_members table.

Thanks to both Orstio and Kindred for positive responses this time.

Orstio I am interested in your comment about passing password thru query strings.  I assume they are MD5 before transfer (assuming Joomla and SMF both use MD5).  What is your feel for security of that versus when users register (using Joomla's scheme)... it passes username and password through the post parameters... I tried to verify whether SMF did that as well... Don't see the same stuff... is it doing a quick redirect or do you have some other magic method for logging in and registering that bypasses post parameters?

Also Kindred don't worry I would never ask to rewrite SMF just to fit in with a component.

Do either of you two have a high level map of what should take place during the following events (assuming it is not a SMF trade secret and you would be willing to share it)
1) User Registration and approvals
2) Starting sessions (user logging in)
3) Ending Sessions
4) Blocking or deleting users

(would save time digging through the code)

CB RC2 has some nice events that happen before, during, or after most of those events that would be nice to connect them together at that phase.  The database tables could remain seperate with the plugin handling synchronization of the tables.

I have read about the SSI that SMF includes... Could you gentlemen point in the direction of a good example of how that could be used to help synchronize from the SMF side as well?

[Orstio]

Orstio I am interested in your comment about passing password thru query strings.  I assume they are MD5 before transfer (assuming Joomla and SMF both use MD5).  What is your feel for security of that versus when users register (using Joomla's scheme)... it passes username and password through the post parameters... I tried to verify whether SMF did that as well... Don't see the same stuff... is it doing a quick redirect or do you have some other magic method for logging in and registering that bypasses post parameters?

$_POST is more secure than query strings.  Query strings are visible to anyone who can see HTTP_REFERER, so if a password happens to be in a query string, and one clicks on a link, it shows up in the referral link.  Instead of using $_POST and $GET and trying to code by remembering which method is used where, you'll find that $_REQUEST is used, which is basically just $_POST + $_GET.

SMF 1.0.x uses a salted MD5, and SMF 1.1 uses SHA1 encryption, so neither of them is the same as Joomla's.  Fortunately, the MD5 can be passed to SMF, and SMF will return a message to the user "Password security has recently been upgraded, please try again".

Do either of you two have a high level map of what should take place during the following events (assuming it is not a SMF trade secret and you would be willing to share it)
1) User Registration and approvals
2) Starting sessions (user logging in)
3) Ending Sessions
4) Blocking or deleting users

Doing these from a CB plugin is probably best to do in a similar fashion to what I've done with the bridge, except the opposite.  The bridge uses SMF's integration hooks to write data directly to the Joomla database, instead of using Joomla's native functions, because some of those functions have redirect calls as they end.  You'll probably need your CB extension to write information to the SMF database, and return to CB, rather than ending in some SMF redirect, so you'll want to write your own function to do that rather than using a native SMF function.

As far as the registration is concerned, it will probably be the easiest part.  See my post here:

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=48220.0

SMF sessions are easy, and they are started upon a call to SSI.php.  The cookies are set/unset with a function in Subs-Auth.php called setLoginCookie():

void setLoginCookie(int cookie_length, int ID_MEMBER, string password = '')
      - sets the SMF-style login cookie and session based on the ID_MEMBER
        and password passed.
      - password should be already encrypted with the cookie salt.
      - logs the user out if ID_MEMBER is zero.
      - sets the cookie and session to last the number of seconds specified
        by cookie_length.
      - when logging out, if the globalCookies setting is enabled, attempts
        to clear the subdomain's cookie too.

Blocking and deleting users, again, should be handled directly in the database, rather than trying to use SMF native functions.

[kawika]

I'm one of the developers from the Joomla forums working on integrating Joomla, Virtuemart, CB, Docman, JACLPlus, and someday SMF to create multi-tiered membership sites. Joomlahacks SMF Bridge breaks Virtuemart and JACLPlus in that environment so we're not close to including SMF much less integration it with CB.

The membership system thread is here: hxxp:forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,1111.msg145886.html#msg145886 [nonactive]

The integration information site is here: hxxp:www.joomlapalooza.com [nonactive].

[rlhenson]

kawika,

Thats great info. Please keep us informed and if you have any kind of a timeline that would be awesome. You might want to drop us a note over at Jommlapolis as well.

Thanks

[geeffland]

Orstio,

Thanks for that last post.  I see how the login cookies (and assumed database session) are started and I think the example you have for createuser should be good enough to dig into and figure out... but on the sessions  I am still a little unclear...

Looks like you do the setLoginCookie to get a session variable and cookie.  This function appears to do no validation.

What about the login2 and LogOut functions... login2 appears to have a redirect in it which I assume is what you were referring to earlier about not using SMFs built in functions...

Anyway you can probably tell I am chasing my tail on the sessions part...

[Aravot]

What happend to this donation thingy or finding developer?

[geeffland]

I have this on my "to do" list but there are many things in front of it at the moment (no donation required)... Might be a while if you wait on me...  If someone else wants to start I can share info about how to make the plugin work.  As discussed earlier in the thread (if I remember correctly)... I was a tester for a CB plugin for another bb... well that got turned around as the original developer got buried... so I am the lead developer and he is the co-developer...  Once it is completed... and the other things on my plate clear off, I plan on making another version of that plugin that works with SMF... Works pretty good with the other bb at the moment and we are working on import/export for current users...new registrations, updates, and deletes are working in current beta, along with starting and ending sessions

Hope this helps,
Greg