Member permission View Own/Any Topic

[mcornetto]

I have a need for a board where Members can only view their own topic. 

I have searched for this as a mod but the mods are no longer supported and besides from what I've gathered the mod writers seem to think this needs to be added to core.   One of the posts I read said they added it as a feature request but I couldn't find it on this board.   So, if it is here then my apologies.

This, to me, is an urgent and important feature that I need and I'm sure even you must admit - it should have been available already.

Cheers,

Michael

[Arantor]

The problem is that there is simply no efficient way to do it in core. (I speak from bitter experience in trying to optimise this stuff.)

Depending on what your exact needs are, the mods out there may be suitable instead.

I should add, most of the mod writers who think it should be added to core have never tried to make it themselves

This, to me, is an urgent and important feature that I need and I'm sure even you must admit - it should have been available already.

Speaking as one of the people who has done some of the craziest expansions of SMF, I can certainly agree there is a need for it. But I do not agree it should be a core feature; the performance penalty alone for all users, for a feature that only a minority need? No.

[mcornetto]

Thanks for replying.   I completely get what you're saying, it would affect performance.   However, what if it were implemented in a way where it could be turned off when not needed?  Much of core behaves in this way - features can be turned on or off - at least from my limited understanding of the product.

[Arantor]

Even that doesn't really help in some ways

Yes, features can be turned off, but there's still stuff hanging around even though it's turned off. For example, post moderation is off by default, but the state of messages in terms of approval is still tracked, it's still part of the database and you can't just remove it from there without causing bigger problems.

[mcornetto]

Even though I might be a bit of one, I'm not trying to be a pest.  I just want to get a grip on why this is such a difficult mod. 

In your post you give an example that requires a database update when a post is made as being the sort of problem that would be incurred. 

I'm not claiming to know anything about the code - because I don't - but I don't see how adding this feature could involve much more than a bit of coding.

For example, using pseudo, this is the algorithm I would expect to see...

IF view-permissions-are-on
     IF member-can-view-topic
           include-topic

At the most there might be one or two more conditions in there but that basically outlines the task.  Which part of that causes an issue with implementing this?  Is there a performance issue with one of the condition checks?  Is it that the check would need to be done in a number of places or possibly that it can't be done in some of the places it needs to be done? 

Again, really, I'm not trying to be a pest.  And please don't spend a lot of time on the answer.  I'm just basically curious and it's in my nature to want to understand why this feature wouldn't be implemented.  Especially because I want it on my site.   

[emanuele]

This, to me, is an urgent and important feature that I need and I'm sure even you must admit - it should have been available already.

No, to me is plain useless...

Strange that Arantor didn't suggest SimpleDesk... (yeah, I know you are waiting to know what exactly mcornetto (that sounds like an Italian name ), wants to obtain)

[Arantor]

At the most there might be one or two more conditions in there but that basically outlines the task.  Which part of that causes an issue with implementing this?  Is there a performance issue with one of the condition checks?

It has to be done in a *huge* number of places. And even if not enabled, that's still a slowdown (and a convolution to the code). In fact, if it's implemented the same way board access is, it's still a slowdown EVEN WHEN IT'S THE ADMIN looking who can see everything.

@Emanuele: SimpleDesk was the first thing that came to mind (and a completely practical demonstration of the hassles of implementing this, I spent some weeks on getting the view-ticket logic sorted out once departments were implemented) but it seems like it might be overkill.

[Kindred]

mcornetto,

The thing you are asking for really shouldn't be part of the core product.
You have a niche request... and in that niche, the requirement for this sort of thing is indeed important - but for the general public, most admins/sites would never use it.

What you are, essentially, asking for is (as described) a helpdesk-type/ticket system...   and Arantor has released SimpleDesk which links tightly into SMF (or installs alone, IIRC).  However, trying to squeeze that sort of thing into a standard forum creates overhead.
It has to be checked (is it on, if so, is it active in this board, if so, can the user view, etc) for every access.  Even if it only hits the first layer of query, you are talking 20+ different places to add the check.
Additionally, you are talking about a fairly decent chunk of code, which increases the overall size (and complexity) of the SMF core codebase...

[Arantor]

You have a niche request... and in that niche, the requirement for this sort of thing is indeed important - but for the general public, most admins/sites would never use it.

And that's the kicker.

This is functionality that might be useful on a lot of sites, or it might not. I know vB 3 had this function (and they do pay for it in performance too), haven't checked later ones.

But given the number of people asking, it seems reasonable to conclude that it is not a headline feature that needs to be added.

and Arantor has released SimpleDesk which links tightly into SMF (or installs alone, IIRC)

No, it links tightly, but it has the slightly odd facility to shut the forum down and make it look like it's standalone.

It has to be checked (is it on, if so, is it active in this board, if so, can the user view, etc) for every access.  Even if it only hits the first layer of query, you are talking 20+ different places to add the check.

It's nearer to 50.

[Kindred]

hmmm.... you could also try this mod:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3626

[mcornetto]

This, to me, is an urgent and important feature that I need and I'm sure even you must admit - it should have been available already.

No, to me is plain useless...

Strange that Arantor didn't suggest SimpleDesk... (yeah, I know you are waiting to know what exactly mcornetto (that sounds like an Italian name ), wants to obtain)

I knew about SimpleDesk.  I did research the problem before I added this request.

The reason I don't want to go for SimpleDesk is that it is overkill for what I need.

I have one member that needs to be able to communicate with the other board members on a one-to-one basis.  There's attachments involved that need to remain private.

If attachments were allowed in PMs then that would solve my problem.  Since people seem so against the view permissions, should I open a feature request to allow attachments in PMs instead?

hmmm.... you could also try this mod:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3626

That relies on the user marking it as private.  I need it to always be private.

[Arantor]

The reason I don't want to go for SimpleDesk is that it is overkill for what I need.

Which is exactly why I didn't suggest it, figuring it probably would be.

Though I still feel a bit bitter at the hundreds of hours I spent on it for the little use it actually gets.

I have one member that needs to be able to communicate with the other board members on a one-to-one basis.  There's attachments involved that need to remain private.

You could always use email.

should I open a feature request to allow attachments in PMs instead?

People are even less enthusiastic about that as a core feature because of all the bad ways it tends to get used (like sharing illegal material without the admin knowing about it, since admins can't see PMs without directly going into the database)

[mcornetto]

You could always use email.

That's what we currently use.  I just would like a more integrated solution that encourages people to contact that one person through my forum.   

[emanuele]

To me SD seems quite a good choice for that specific issue...I don't see it as overkill as you see it probably is subjective).

Instead, a feature based on the need of a single person of a forum that has to have access to certain attachments privately looks overkill.

An alternative to emails is PMs and filehosting service like mediafire (and password-protected archive).

[mcornetto]

Instead, a feature based on the need of a single person of a forum that has to have access to certain attachments privately looks overkill.

It isn't overkill.  The member that people want access to is a literary agent.  She gets tons of solicited emails from her professional clients.  But she would like to take unsolicited pitches from amateur screenwriters, that's her thing - she likes to discover new talent.  These pitches usually require an attachment.  There is an issue with getting those unsolicited pitches through her email because amateurs have a tendency to abuse the privilege and they clog up her inbox with useless garbage.  Much better to allow the amateurs to post a private topic on a board, or through a pm, and let her respond to them at her leisure.  Plus she'd have a lot of control over who can contact her.  The contact has to be private because we are dealing with peoples ideas here.  I've tried getting her to use a different email account, but she isn't particularly tech savvy and completely forgets to check the account.  Whereas, I know I can get her to check out a board or her PMs.   And furthermore, the members of the board, the screenwriters aren't that tech savvy either  - I could just imagine trying to explain to them how to upload a file, password protect it so it's private and include the url (I'd never get any sleep because I'd be answering their questions all night).   Anyway, that's pretty much precisely why I need it and why it isn't overkill.         

[emanuele]

I didn't say it's overkill for you, I said that is overkill request to add a feature based on that (quite peculiar) situation.

I would expect request a mod.

[mcornetto]

I would expect request a mod.

The mod writers say it needs to be core and the core writers say the mod writers that say it needs to be core should try writing it.  It's an endless vicious circle - just like life.   

[Arantor]

I'm on the fence since I have been one of the more prolific mod writers and it was not that long ago that I was practically on the dev team here (and on one of the SMF derivative projects, I am a developer)

There are certainly advantages from a modder's perspective if it is core, mainly because it doesn't require them to do anything substantial to support it themselves. But the performance aspect, especially for the limited use, is prohibitive.

It's not a simple 'we say they should do it, and they say we should do it', there are stronger arguments on one side than the other, as it has been for a long time.

(It is not for nothing that SimpleDesk *completely* ignores boards entirely and does its own thing where it has proper control of everything.)

[emanuele]

The mod writers say it needs to be core and the core writers say the mod writers that say it needs to be core should try writing it.  It's an endless vicious circle - just like life.   

* emanuele is a bug writer.

[JoakimC]

hmmm.... you could also try this mod:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3626

I also have the need for an option where the members only can view their own posts in a board. I am developing a software and use the SMF for handling bugs/issues/features coming from the users. When a user suggest a good new feature I move this topic to another board for us developers. But I want the user that made the suggestion to be able to follow what happens to the suggestion, but I don't want the user to be able to view all other nice features that the other user have suggested.

Oh - the link above does not work.

[Arantor]

The new link is https://github.com/MissAllSunday/PrivateTopic

However as discussed using topics brings a lot of problems and for your use SimpleDesk might suit better.

[Kindred]

the link above does not work because the author took her mod development to GitHib, which the current SMF customization site does not support...   However, her mod is still available on GitHub.

That being said, I will argue the same as before -- you are treying to twist the forum into being something it is not intended ot be - it sounds like, for your description - that you would benefit more from the SimpleDesk helpdesk mod than from any convoluted application of permissions to mangle your board to do what you are trying...

[JoakimC]

I'll have a go at the SimpleDesk. Thanks for the quick replies!

[JoakimC]

Had a look at SimpleDesk. Great mod! Great for help desk purposes, which is exactly what I want, but I want as admin to choose if a certain "Ticket" should be viewable by just the user or by all. Now you can only (if I understand it correctly) set this for the role, and that is for all tickets - not on "Ticket level". I'll make a suggestion for this in the SimpleDesk forum. Again - thanks for your help!

[Arantor]

I can tell you now that will not happen at ticket level. It would require a redesign of SimpleDesk at the deepest level. I know this because I wrote almost all of SimpleDesk

[Arantor]

Ultimately this is not a feature that will not be implemented in SMF 2.1, and unlikely to ever be in SMF.