Thinking of migrating to another forum

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Some people use IPB 1.3 too because it still has lots of features but how old is that and how old is SMF 2.0 ?

IPB 1.3 was in 2003 or something, right? SMF 2.0 is not yet released so... I fail to see your point.

[Arantor]

It's nothing to do with being convinced or brainwashed for that matter.  It's about what we know and seen with our own eyes

We were trying to convince you to reconsider but I guess you've made up your mind to stop using SMF. If you can find another forum that serves all your needs better than SMF (and maybe there are) go use it. Then come back and tell us how rubbish SMF is and what we should be doing better. But all of the comments in this thread stand - vB has issues, phpBB has issues (especially if you want security), MyBB has issues (especially if you want support -- good luck), so singling SMF out because the devs want to take longer to make it work right isn't entirely fair.

[riker]

so singling SMF out because the devs want to take longer to make it work right isn't entirely fair.

I'm not singling SMF out, I'm sure 2.0 will be great in another few years then RC3 comes out.  The extra features which compliment 1.x.x are well worth the years of wait

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

I'm not singling SMF out, I'm sure 2.0 will be great in another few years then RC3 comes out.  The extra features which compliment 1.x.x are well worth the years of wait

Now that's just being mean - and pessimistic at it's best.

[Trekkie101]

To be honest its a double edged sword, and we could argue until the night turns black, and the sun rises again.

However, SMF 2.0 has not been a quick release, but then theres a lot went into it, a lot of great new changes, well thought out solutions, and underlying work making us one of the better open source solutions for things like UTF8, Database Extraction, Scalability.

If we did release, say for instance (totally random number from my head), every six months, and had a team of a size that we could do that, then people would be hesitant to mod, theme or even change settings due to the lifetime of the code.

Forum software isn't meant to update as quickly as a media player, or a browser, fair enough we must innovate and grow, but our core functionality is allowing posts, to be made to a topic, in a board, by a member. As long as we tick those boxes, everything else is extra.

However that said, 2.0 and Curve are well worth the wait, and still on the front edge of features.

[riker]

However that said, 2.0 and Curve are well worth the wait, and still on the front edge of features.

I very much wanted a new brighter default theme and was glad to hear a new theme had been made however I do hope a brighter version does come along with it replacing the two others

[babjusi]

That new theme, curve, looks pretty sharp.

[Antechinus]

Yeah... and? RC1 was released because no known showstopping bugs were found.

Are you being serous?.  I've got respect for the dev team because they've always got back to me when I've reporting problems but the theme issues on beta4 were huge.  How the beta testers missed them is just beyond me.  I think if you had decent beta testers then RC would not be here now because we'd be on beta5.

To be perfectly honest I think the main problem is that you and your members predominantly use IE, of one variety or another, while almost everyone on the SMF team avoids it like the plague. There are also a lot of SMF users who avoid IE as much as possible. Consequently when there are issues with IE it tends to become a case of "It's only IE. We can fix that later." The assumption is that nobody will use the thing unless their office system forces them too, in which case they will know it's a problem and be happy as Larry when they get home at night and are able to log in with their preferred browser.

Now I understand that this annoys you and you'll probably be happy to quote your preferred web statistics on browser usage but this is how it works. It's the way all web devs work, to be honest. You get the thing sorted so it validates and is stable and has the functionality you want, then you deal with the crap that is thrown at you by IE. It comes last. It gets dealt with eventually but it isn't the first thing on the list.

Now if you and your members want to use IE that is your prerogative and nobody is going to try and stop you. On the other hand I have to say that if IE vanished the world would be a better place. Opera and Safari and Firefox are way in advance of IE8 as far as what they will support. By using these browsers people could have faster loading, cheaper to code and run, better looking websites with more functionality. IE8 is already five years out of date in many ways. Seriously. Up to you if you want to support it though. Whatever turns you on.

[aldo]

Or tell them to use a different browser all together, or to at least update their OS once in awhile and install IE8 (It should be in Windows Update now)

[Trekkie101]

Its a critical update to IE8 now, IE6 should die soon, that will take 90% of the issues out of making webpages, however until then, we must try

[riker]

To be perfectly honest I think the main problem is that you and your members predominantly use IE, of one variety or another, while almost everyone on the SMF team avoids it like the plague.

Or tell them to use a different browser all together, or to at least update their OS once in awhile and install IE8 (It should be in Windows Update now)

I've been expecting this and it would explain a lot.  So you are saying SMF is anti Microsoft and this does force IE users to change.  Not a very nice way to treat IE users who make up the vast majority of online users is it.

I hope others are reading this

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

So you are saying SMF is anti Microsoft and this does force IE users to change.  Not a very nice way to treat IE users who make up the vast majority of online users is it.

No,  I didn't read it like that at all. SMF has always worked with IE as well, and so does 2.0. The only thing is, that there are IE related things that solving them can get delayed a little for many valid reasons, while the actual product is still under development - and not a release version.

The same applies to any and all software development. There will always be some less common things to break functionality in some specific circumstances - and these cases are usually the last things to battle with...

[Arantor]

The reason that most web developers (I should know, I am one) are anti-IE is because there are official standards on how web pages are meant to work - and despite Microsoft being on the panel, IE consistently ignores those standards - even in IE8.

It's incredibly hard to write software that works on two levels - following the standards that have been in place for years, that every other browser complies with, and following IE's own standards. Most web developers develop to standards, then fix things in IE later.

And as for being the 'most popular browser' it depends where you go and what you're doing. There are plenty of sites out there for whom IE is far less common (under 20% of the total hits)

[riker]

Still hearing bias.  I get the feeling if 2.0 had serous issues with FF you'd rush patches out!.  Just take your time with IE and tell people to use another browser hey

[Arantor]

Quite possibly, because FF/Opera/Safari/Chrome actually follow the standards and if there's an issue with one, it probably breaks in all of them, because they all adhere to the actual HTML and CSS standards - which even IE8 doesn't properly I understand.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Still hearing bias.  I get the feeling if 2.0 had serous issues with FF you'd rush patches out!.  Just take your time with IE and tell people to use another browser hey

It's really not just that simple. While being in RC I would imagine ( Now this does not represent the Dev team in any way, I am not a part of that team. ) the Devs don't want to be batching things separately, unless it's a security issue, but instead try to get things fixed in larger quantities between RC versions.

[Antechinus]

To be perfectly honest I think the main problem is that you and your members predominantly use IE, of one variety or another, while almost everyone on the SMF team avoids it like the plague.

Or tell them to use a different browser all together, or to at least update their OS once in awhile and install IE8 (It should be in Windows Update now)

I've been expecting this and it would explain a lot.  So you are saying SMF is anti Microsoft and this does force IE users to change.  Not a very nice way to treat IE users who make up the vast majority of online users is it.

I hope others are reading this

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your misquoting of me was accidental.
I stated that if you wish to use IE that is your prerogative. That is hardly forcing you to do anything. I also stated that IE problems do get fixed, but as Arantor has just pointed out Microsoft consistently ignores international standards and software is built to international standards first. Fixes for non-compliant browsers come after that. Sorry, but if you don't like that you really should take it up with Microsoft. They are the ones responsible for the mess.

The thing about Firefox and Opera and, to a lesser extent, Safari and Chrome is that generally they don't cause problems that need hacking. This is why it isn't necessary to rush things out for them. Code it to standards and 99% of the time it will work.

[Antechinus]

At the risk of over-egging the pudding I'll point out something else. We're not predominantly Firefox or Opera fans here just because we have an irrational grudge against Microsoft. We favour those browsers because they work. Point for consideration there.

[Arantor]

...but as Arantor has just pointed out Microsoft consistently ignores international standards and software is built to international standards first. Fixes for non-compliant browsers come after that. Sorry, but if you don't like that you really should take it up with Microsoft.

I want to just reinforce one point here.

The standards in question are the W3C standards of HTML, XHTML and CSS. Microsoft is part of the W3C and yet they continue to ignore the standards that they helped create.

[riker]

So again expect better support for IE with groups that aren't anti Microsoft.  These people as everyone can see come up with excuses and then try making out nothing unruly is going on. Everything other than IE is is ok but we're not telling you what browser to use LMAO