Regarding Nao and SMF moderation

[青山 素子]

This is a request to please let this topic die. The situation is only so large because of those on the outside that keep provoking those actually involved. It's between Nao and @sh only, no one else.

The next person I see post on this topic will get a 2 day post ban. I don't care if it is to support this post of mine, to stir up the pot, or just to be a sarcastic fool. This is beyond who is right or wrong, it's causing a huge disturbance in the community. You brought the staff into the dispute, now you have to deal with it.

Once again, the next poster gets a two day post ban.

Edit: Obviously, that didn't work out.

[mark7144]

This topic is still open and while it is open I should have the right to post in it. If you want to officially end this public discussion then lock the topic.

And yes I did just post to intentionally get banned for doing nothing wrong, it's too tempting. However, what I said above is the truth.

[tampaba1]

Lock the thread and stop the threats.

[Deaks]

yeh thats prob best ... thread locked

[N3RVE]

Further, this guy insulted Nao using foul language and had no discipline while a defender of Nao was banned temporarily. Its a madhouse. Is there a moderator team? Because NONE of this crap would have ever happened on MY forum.

I have to add that placing LinK187 on post-moderation was actually my fault and had nothing to do with the SMF Team. I saw that they were open reports and didn't have much time to analyse them, seeing that he had used some offensive language, I post-banned him without a second thought (yeah, it was my fault). I have sent him an apology PM.

Edit: Grammar

-[n3rve]

[Nao 尚]

Guys, sorry if I'm a bit melodramatic in this post... It's how I am. Both demoniac and cheesy. I'm a Big Mac from Hell. I'm "Le" Big Mac from Hell. (Thanks Quentin.) Also, I thought it's best to post all this here instead of somewhere else. At some point you can move the topic somewhere less public.

I have to add that placing LinK187 on post-moderation was actually my fault and had nothing to do with the SMF Team. I saw that they were open reports and didn't have much time to analyse them, seeing that he had used some offensive language, I post-banned him without a second thought (yeah, it was my fault). I have sent him an apology PM.

Then, as a second or third thought, why didn't you punish @sh upon my request? I *did* report his message in the end.
What did he do to deserve this level of attention (or non-attention)?

I may be a demon or something, and I'm not asking for a group of minions, but I think my hard work deserves me some credit and some respect. This is the very first time in a year and a half here that I'm getting insulted. This could have happened before, this could have never happened. It happened this week, that's how things are. What matters here, is that if I was angry (and I still am, even after taking a 24 hour break from this), it was for a good reason. And the reason is still here.

I don't care what people think about me if they're not using my work. But @sh is using both Aeva and SMG and praising SMG, and still, he thinks it's good practice to insult me. 4 times in the same post. And no one seems to care. No one deleted his post. No one from the team posted to say, "hey, be a little more respectful of Nao, he may be grumpy from time to time, maybe even annoying, but he's an honest guy. Sometimes he's a bit misleaded, on the loose, but he certainly doesn't owe you anything, so if you're not happy with him, just ignore him and go somewhere else."

All in all, I don't know what I felt most humiliated by -- whether it be @sh's original insults, or the fact that no one except from a few regular users cared to raise their voice and say the words that would have made me feel better. Even worse, a moderator actually took it upon themselves to make sure a beta tester would shut up. I felt that as a slap in the face. I've read this topic yes, now I know it wasn't, but it won't change the fact that it was painful to me, when it happened. I talked with my heart back them. Now I try to talk with my brain, but they both have the same things to say apparently. A year and a half of involvement in the SMF community. Unpaid work, full time. Including most weekends. The only thing I was asking, no, hoping for, was respect.

@sh refuses to apologize? That means he meant those bad wards, right? So if the team doesn't do anything about it, it means they'd rather lose their "valuable assets" than being accused of banning end-users. How valuable am I, or rather, how expendable am I? What's the point in the end?

Ban? That's the logical continuation. That's what I was saying in yesterday's post. "If you don't see me here again, ask Metallica, he'll know why." Because I say things the way they are. I don't smooth my angles. I don't have any reason to. I'm polite, but I'm not a hypocrite. The downside is that I have to accept the idea that I might be banned for what I say. Even though Metallica is a cool guy and does his best to smooth the angles all by himself, he's still only human and can take only so much crap from me. There's a lack of understanding here. Which is why I see no reason for coming back if I'm banned from here, even for a few days. And that's why I said, "See you on another website." I wasn't saying I was leaving of my own free will. I just said if I couldn't come here, at least I could be found at noisen.com.

Okay it's 1:30am and I'm supposed to get up soon (as a demon I've planned to eat many babies tomorrow, and they're tastier in the morning), so I'll leave it at that. Thanks to everyone who supported me, and to the team for such a great piece of software. See you tomorrow, or not. I need some sleep now.

[weightman]

So, the thread isn't locked and we are allowed to post, despite the threat? Or am I now going to be banned? Its tough to understand what is going on with the total incompetence of the moderation system here. Great software and great community but just terrible moderating.

I hope you guys get it together and solve this matter to Nao's satisfaction since his value is very large to many of your users. I seriously doubt you would allow the kind of disrespectful, foul insults, and taunting to the SMF software developers as Nao. I would also add @sh PM'd me unsolicated with some long message of garbage. I asked him to please not PM me again and he did anyway with some insults. I don't care but this guy is obviously a troll and if Nao cares enough to stop development on his mods, then I care because I want his work.

Happy Friday.

[metallica48423]

can you please report said pm's?  cant do much moderating of pms without a report.  we dont go through our members pms.  privacy and all that good stuff.

[weightman]

Yes, I will report them though they are of no consequence to me beyond the evidence to support Nao. You guys need some help moderating, need to make some serious changes to make sure this useless and silly drama does not occur again.

[metallica48423]

thanks. 

with all due respect, weightman, we do not just ban someone right off for being disrespectful.  its been made quite clear to both sides that such behavior wont be tolerated.  first occurence normally is a warning, which has occured.  second instance is usually a week long post ban.  then full ban.  look back at prior situations for reference.  banning is always the last resort. always.  nao has made a great impact on beta testing and mod developments, for sure.  the only problem thats occured is the lull of a day before first contact was made on it. and that was my misunderstanding.  ill take the blame on that.  aside from that procedure was followed. 

[DirtRider]

With a board this size and the amount of work that goes into it I feel that the moderating of such a forum must be one huge task. Considering all I feel that the moderators did the best they could have at the time. The approach of trying to solve it in private is the best way to got however unfortunately in this case it did not seem to work.

[metallica48423]

sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt,  regardless if it comes back itll be taken further.  we dont need it here.

anyhow, nao and dragooon have both requested the issue be cleansed from the topic.  and so i shall be when i get back to a computer.

[weightman]

anyhow, nao and dragooon have both requested the issue be cleansed from the topic.

Whatever works. I do not care about any of this beyond keeping the developer happy and working. I think some of my points have been missed but so is life.

Happy Friday.

[青山 素子]

Apparently the topic was unlocked based on the fact that I prefer people involved voluntarily calm down. It was in my mind that I would allow people to post, but they would know such consequences and could make a judgment on if they felt it was important enough to risk such a thing. After all, there are many things people aren't supposed to do, but can do if they wish to deal with the consequences.

However, since it appears people can't calm down or make good value judgments, I have rescinded the bans issued and am locking the topic. Hopefully it will stay that way.

Here is the basic layout of the situation as I understand it based on the rather large number of topics started over it:

• @sh asked about a feature for the SMG modification and got a sarcastic reply
• As the Internet is serious business, @sh replied insulting said mod author
• Said author shot back with an insult (somewhat justified)
• Other people got involved and started fighting and taking sides
• At least one post by one of the non-involved arguers was reported and a team member took action based on language used without looking at surrounding context. Hey, they made a bit of a mistake by not investigating the situation fully. The team is human, get over it.
• Other people started multiple topics about this whole issue and stirred up more there by demanding the immediate banning of a member who decided to finally be quiet.
• People remain up in arms despite being told it's a private issue and shouldn't involve the team more than the team trying to keep the argument from causing chaos for those trying to actually get help.

I think that's about right. This issue has been blown out of proportion and the lynch mobs aren't helping to fix things. In fact, it's pushed a valuable contributor to get really frustrated.

I have a suggestion for people next time. Instead of starting up a fight, why not just report the first problem post with a quick description of what is going on and let the problem be handled? This isn't Fight Club, this isn't chaos, and it certainly isn't madness (no, it's not Sparta either).

So, this topic is now locked. If you have an issue with me doing that, feel free to send me a PM and insult me, or start a topic about how bad of a person I am. We already lost one member because I was too busy with my day job to reply to their e-mail over the ban I issued. I don't think you could do anything else worse.