Impossible to UPGRADE themes

[P@P]

Hi!

I consider myself this as a bug, for the devs you can read the discussion in more detail here:http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=282564.0

For the record, how to test this bug:
- Just try to upgrade one older theme, you don't have any option to upgrade a theme.

You can:
- Install a new theme (the new version)
- Go the the PHPmyadmin and change all the members to the "new" theme (that was suppose to be the upgrade)
- Delete the old theme (the old version)

This is one way of upgrading one theme, but this is NOT helpful for admins without technical knowledge!
It is impossible to upgrade one theme without changing the theme ID, so, this only must be a bug.

I hope you pay attention to this bug report.

Best regards!

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Well... Just updating a theme should be as easy as replacing the current files.
No settings would change, no theme ID would change... All you need is ftp.

EDIT:

I would also like to point out, that changing theme for everyone is also possible via the forum Admin section. So no need for phpmyadmin to do that.

And even more - if everyone is using just one theme, then you can install a new theme, and make that the forum default - and just delete the old theme, and that's it

[P@P]

That doesn't work for all the themes, and I tried that.

And please, don't give me ways of doing that with FTP, PHPmyadmin and that stuff. Remember that not all the admins know how to use some tools, and remember that some servers (free servers) don't allow basic things like FTP access or access to the DB.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

That doesn't work for all the themes, and I tried that.

It should work for every and all themes that have no custom settings added to them between versions.

Also I just edited my last post

EDIT:

I would also like to point out, that changing theme for everyone is also possible via the forum Admin section. So no need for phpmyadmin to do that.

And even more - if everyone is using just one theme, then you can install a new theme, and make that the forum default - and just delete the old theme, and that's it

[Antechinus]

The thing is that what you're proposing would still run into trouble if mods were installed. Theme designers are the ones who would have to provide the list of code changes and there is no way they can account for all the different mods people might have.

A system like the one you want could work on completely unmodified sites but that would be about as far as it could go.

[P@P]

What is the difference, then, between installing a new theme (as you proposed me before) and with this solution?

When I install a new theme, I don't have the Mods either. Me, as an Admin, I'll have to do manual update to my Mods in the new theme as well.

I can tell you the difference, the difference is that with my solution, an admin CAN upgrade a theme without having FTP access and without having access to the PHPmyAdmin. Just a simple "upgrade this package as theme upgrade".

[P@P]

And even more - if everyone is using just one theme, then you can install a new theme, and make that the forum default - and just delete the old theme, and that's it

I just saw this..., I think I'll quit with this kind of suggestions, doesn't worth the trouble. And I am starting to be angry with this kind of answers. Please, pay attention where I put this topic.

This is NOT a particular topic support, this IS a bug report. I don't want solutions for one hypothetical community with ONLY one theme, I want a solution for ALL the comunities.

Is that hard to understand? Come on, try to think like a newbie admin and then you'll realize where is the problem.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Sorry I tried to offer options. I'll stop now. For all I care you can just code the upgrade function yourself....

[P@P]

LexArma, I know you tried to help me. I don't know if you have access to the link I posted in my first post, but I am totally upset with this kind of discussion.

I am suggestion something for all users, not for me. I know how to deal with this by myself. I don't need this feature because I can do that by myself.

But, for a newbie admin, that's IMPOSSIBLE to do. I am not thinking about ME, I am thinking about the average forum's admins.

So, if I was rude with you, forgive me. But it is very upsetting when we try to help the improvement of a software and instead of arguments for WHY you don't want to do this, you get alternative solutions that requires more knowledge that average users have.

simple machines forum should be SIMPLE.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

OK, I understand - and forgive me as well, since I really did not try to bug you on purpose.
I do not have access to the area you linked to, so am unaware of possible routes you have already been offered.

I understand what you are asking for, but like Antechinus already pointed,
as long as mod installs need manual edits to custom themes, so long I believe
will updating themes as well.

I personally also believe, that basic knowledge of ftp is a must for any admin,
and if someone doesn't have ftp access, then it is by choice - since the hosts are plenty, that provide you with hosting for cheap, with all you really need.

The way I would do this myself would be that I would download the new theme pack, unpack it and make the mod edits etc to it in advance, and then just overwrite my old theme with the new files.

[bloc]

I actually agreed.

It IS harder to update themes when its only ftp option or install new theme/remove old one . Having the theme as a mod package might then be better then, leaving the update up to package manager instead. It could either be straight-forward - replacing files(though that would be the same as theme manager, when you use same folder, only you get 2 entries in the theme list ) or change whats different from last version - like regular mods do.

Theme update as a mod you could also perhaps get away with only applying the specific theme changes, leaving any mod edits alone. Might not always work, but at least a bigger chance of success.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Now that is an idea. Theme updates as mod packages or such could really work. Only change the parts that have actually changed between the versions.

[bloc]

Yes, it makes sense and won't destroy custom edits so easily either.

Imagine any theme designer starting doing that, perhaps even offering a mod package server for these and you see its user-friendliness come into effect. You could even offer small theme/mod packages that do nothing but update your themes to support certain mods - saving the manual hassle and also not interfering with pure theme updates, if done properly.

[Antechinus]

There's enough work goes into custom themes already. To be perfectly honest, by the time I finish a theme doing more coding on it is the last thing I want. I can see this sort of thing working for examples like the change in the sha1.js file path from Beta 4 to RC1. That is security-related and should be the same in all themes, so if patches can be made to do that on all themes then well and good.

I really cannot see beginning themers writing mod packages for custom themes all over the place. I really can't see most advanced themers wanting to bother either. They do enough already and users usually want to change things which means they need to learn the basics anyway.

You don't need ftp. You just need a changelog. Any changes can be copy/pasted in the SMF admin theme files editor. I think asking (not ordering) themers to include a changelog in their theme zips is perfectly reasonable and personally I'd be happy to do that, but I'd draw the line at writing umpteen mod packages to support all sort of things.

[Tyrsson]

I have used this for adding variants in a multi theme but have not tried updating an entire theme.

[bloc]

I have used this for adding variants in a multi theme but have not tried updating an entire theme.

Did it work? I mean, did users find it useful and not just confusing?

[Tyrsson]

Yep I suppose it worked fine (since I have not heard otherwise but will check and make sure). The admin liked the idea as well as it was just adding the option for a new logo as a variant in an existing theme. To me it seems a lot easier to send them a package and them install it rather than send them the files and say "upload this and upload that and then add this to this" Its much simpler to upload the package and click install.

[bloc]

Sounds good. I'll probably be using this for the new free theme project I am working on.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

I'd seriously like the possibility to a) upgrade a theme with a "mod" or b) know what exactly has changed between versions, so updating would be possible without replacing all files.

[karlbenson]

Just going through some older unresolved bug report topics.

I personally DON'T consider this to be a bug.
A limitation, possibly, but the solution is as easy as overwriting/replacing the files via ftp.

I do like the idea of themes being done as mod packages.  It would help keep themes upto date with bug fixes in the core, and would likely help avoid theme vs mod conflicts.  I think some theme authors would argue against it though, although if they used diff software it would be relatively easy to do.

The only other point having read the other topic through aswell is the current lack of ability to install all current mods onto a new theme just installed.  Although I doubt smf could keep track of what replacements had been done to each theme.  So it would probably be an all or nothing scenario, rather than pick and choosing.  I have provisionally added a feature request for this last point to 2.1 section http://dev.simplemachines.org/mantis/view.php?id=3569