How can we improve the support process?

[Blackhawk40]

To try to put it into perspective... You can ask, "How can I show a guest certain information?"

To which I could easily respond, "Search and you shall find."
Or I could respond, "echo the context?"
Or I can type, again, "the code is if $context(['user']['is_guest']) echo ' **** '; and where the **** is your HTML" which I have typed a million times.

The first is not good.
The second is worse.
The third is better but will baffle a newbie.

To hell with just the third option baffling a newbie, I said "Huh??" to the second option as well!

On the other side of that is that if we give one that is too simplistic then it becomes as if we are "speaking down to the person."

Speaking for myself, I would far sooner have someone from the help team give me an answer that's more simplistic than an answer that goes on at length about inserting x into code string y that just leaves me sitting here going "Huh??"

IMHO, when one is dealing with people who are known to be largely new to SMF and everything that goes with it, it's always better to stick to the KISS principle (keep it simple). That's what I do on my own website (ah, it's sure good to be an expert there, because I'm sure not an expert here!). I have members asking me all the time for help in doing things (posting, searching, etc.) that I consider to be the most basic of things, things that seem glaringly obvious to me. But obviously these things are not obvious to the person asking me for help, so I have to swallow my irritation and start at the very beginning with them.

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to write all that and please DO feel free to join in on the conversation as it progresses.

Thanks, appreciate that. I have also tried to get involved in the community and help other members who have asked easy questions that I know I have the right answer for. I don't have the knowledge to help out very often, but I like to do my bit in partial return for the help I've gotten here.

[metallica48423]

And we thank you for your help

I honestly try to do things from the standpoint that someone might not know what i'm talking about.  *try* being the operative word. 

I must just be patient

Although, when patience runs out... hehe thats what the drumset is for

[Blackhawk40]

Considering FTP is basically needed for uploading other files to a website (leaving out web upload scripts for now), unless the user is running just a forum, I would hope they have some experience with FTP, even if it was just through a tool like Dreamweaver or similar.

I personally had no experience whatsoever with FTP until SMF went to 1.1.2. I took over my website from the previous admin in August 2006 and up until the change to 1.1.2, I did everything with one click through the Package Manager. I'm running a contest website (which is what you call "just a forum," I guess) and had no need prior to 1.1.2 to deal with FTP, .php scripting, etc.

I may sound elitist, but if a user is that scared of messing up their site that they can't be bothered to learn, they aren't the right person to be running it

I believe you may have missed the point I was trying to make. I'll try to be more clear, and use myself as the example this time instead of people in general (although I realize your reply referred to people in general).

It's not that I "can't be bothered" to learn anything. On the contrary, I have learned a great deal since being thrown in off the deep end with the upgrade to 1.1.2. But am I confident enough to go into my cPanel and start fiddling around with stuff on my own? Hell no, because I've read enough anguished posts on here made by people new to SMF who tried doing things completely on their own and lost their entire website. I have 50 people relying on me to keep my website up and running, so from that perspective, yes - I'm very afraid of messing up my website. I would far sooner ask for help here and have the SMF help team think I'm the wrong person to be running my website, than fiddle around with things on my own and possibly destroy what 50 members are counting on me to maintain.

[Blackhawk40]

Although, when patience runs out... hehe thats what the drumset is for

I thought that was what your Nintendo Wii was for 

[metallica48423]

That too

[KGIII]

I worry two things... Again, elitist...

Fantastico and, I am going to disagree (slightly) with BlackHawk on this one, I think many just chose it because of free, cooler name, shorter name, the graphics were neat, etc... I don't think they looked at stability, security, ease of use, etc... I did? I picked it up, first time, as I was tired of getting screwed by phpBB2's security issues.

[Blackhawk40]

I worry two things... Again, elitist...

Fantastico and,

Did something get lost there, KGIII? 

Run that by me again, what are the 2 things you worry about

[metallica48423]

He's extremely tired, so if it doesn't make sense, thats why

Fantastico is a one-click installer for many software things -- it allows one to install SMF without ever using FTP or phpmyadmin.  I think he is saying that the problem therein lies that they never gain the experience of doing so and could have problems later.

[Blackhawk40]

He's extremely tired, so if it doesn't make sense, thats why

Gotcha 

Fantastico is a one-click installer for many software things -- it allows one to install SMF without ever using FTP or phpmyadmin.

I think that explains how the previous admin of my website installed SMF. Also explains why they had no idea what I was talking about when I asked about FTP etc. for the upgrade to 1.1.2 

[青山 素子]

It's not that I "can't be bothered" to learn anything. On the contrary, I have learned a great deal since being thrown in off the deep end with the upgrade to 1.1.2. But am I confident enough to go into my cPanel and start fiddling around with stuff on my own? Hell no, because I've read enough anguished posts on here made by people new to SMF who tried doing things completely on their own and lost their entire website. I have 50 people relying on me to keep my website up and running, so from that perspective, yes - I'm very afraid of messing up my website. I would far sooner ask for help here and have the SMF help team think I'm the wrong person to be running my website, than fiddle around with things on my own and possibly destroy what 50 members are counting on me to maintain.

Perhaps that wasn't the best word, but I couldn't think of one better. I don't mind people asking for help, it is the helpless ones that annoy me. I would much prefer to have a user check their stuff and see an option that looks right and post a question if it is the right thing than a user that doesn't even want to do that. You certainly seem to fall into the former group, and that is good because that group usually turns out to become knowledgeable and better able to cope with possible issues.

[Blackhawk40]

I would much prefer to have a user check their stuff and see an option that looks right and post a question if it is the right thing than a user that doesn't even want to do that.

Ah, I see what you mean - sort of an "SMF helps those who help themselves" approach 

[青山 素子]

Ah, I see what you mean - sort of an "SMF helps those who help themselves" approach 

Indeed. It is very hard to solve problems without that. In an old topic I was in, someone wanted a step-by-step on backup of the SMF database. Now, each host has their db tools in a different place, so without knowing that host, it would be very difficult to guess. So, the general backup instructions were linked to and the user was asked to read over them and see what they could make out. Instead of looking at their host's tools and either looking for something similar or asking the host where to find it, they insisted that they must receive hand-holding. That led to some interesting drama that wouldn't have resulted if only they had at least made an effort on their part to just look.

But really, we should get back on topic, which is to determine why so many support topics are created (especially duplicates) and what can be done to lower this volume.

[KGIII]

BlackMage got it pretty well. Fantastico (or any one-click installation process) has been good in a lot of ways. It has exposed people to the value of web-based software for their sites and given greater exposure to SMF. However... It has also, at that same time, lowered the required skillset and enabled people who have little or no skills in this area to install it. I realize that this may sound untoward but this single click installation process has resulted in people who are over their heads when it comes to even some of the more basic things and thus increased the support load with repeated questions and basic questions that are often covered many times over and even in the documentation.

[Blackhawk40]

I realize that this may sound untoward but this single click installation process has resulted in people who are over their heads when it comes to even some of the more basic things

Doesn't sound untoward to me. I've already freely admitted that I was in way over my head just trying to upgrade from 1.0.9 to 1.1.2. But by diligently reading everybody else's help threads and the responses, and looking at the Online Manual, and some private tutorial from an exceptionally helpful member of the support team, and - yes - some anxiety-inducing fiddling around on my own, I've managed to learn a lot more than I knew a few months ago.

Staying on topic though, it really sounds to me from what KGIII, BlackMage, and Motoko-chan have said, that the SMF 'Help' section needs to be big, bold, extensive, and in our (the members') faces. Imho, the word HELP is far more of an attention-getter than the word DOCS. After all, what do the vast majority of the people who post support requests on here want - do they want DOCS? No, they want HELP.

(Kind of relates back to what I said earlier about the KISS principle. Okay, it relates for me  )

[oliveskate]

I know my navigation better now, and the support is great. Thanks again!

[Joshua Dickerson]

One way to make it easier is by allowing for urls like "index.php?search=foo". So, I quickly hacked that up...

open up index.php and search for...

Code Select Expand

// Action and board are both empty... BoardIndex!
if (empty($board) && empty($topic))

add before

Code Select Expand

// We're searching.
if (!empty($_REQUEST['search']))
{
require_once($sourcedir . 'Search.php');
return 'PlushSearch2';
}

PS: I didn't test this

[Sarge]

Imho, the word HELP is far more of an attention-getter than the word DOCS. After all, what do the vast majority of the people who post support requests on here want - do they want DOCS? No, they want HELP.

I agree, at least from an end user's perspective. A link that says Docs is somehow reminiscent to RTFM -- which is often (though not always correctly) associated with the idea of an obscure, technical and lengthy manual that end users would so rather have not to go through.

Actually, the SMF documentation is very good (at least as reference) and quite readable.

[destalk]

One way to make it easier is by allowing for urls like "index.php?search=foo". So, I quickly hacked that up...

open up index.php and search for...

Code Select Expand

// Action and board are both empty... BoardIndex!
if (empty($board) && empty($topic))

add before

Code Select Expand

// We're searching.
if (!empty($_REQUEST['search'])
{
require_once($sourcedir . 'Search.php');
return 'PlushSearch2';
}

That gives me this error;

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '{' in /home/user/public_html/forum/index.php on line 281

[Sarge]

That gives me this error;

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '{' in /home/user/public_html/forum/index.php on line 281

You probably didn't include the } (curly brace) from the code by groundup.

[destalk]

That gives me this error;

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '{' in /home/user/public_html/forum/index.php on line 281

You probably didn't include the } (curly brace) from the code by groundup.

I definitely did.

Code Select Expand

// We're searching.
              if (!empty($_REQUEST['search'])
               {
                        require_once($sourcedir . 'Search.php');
                      return 'PlushSearch2';
               }
// Action and board are both empty... BoardIndex!
if (empty($board) && empty($topic))