Thinking of migrating to another forum

[Antechinus]

Here's a challenge for you: find me a bunch of devs who love IE.

[Arantor]

Correct, we're not telling you what to use. I use Chrome, a number of my colleagues use Safari on their Macs, a number of other people I know use Opera.

You will find most web developers are anti-MS because MS don't adhere to even their own standards, let alone internationally agreed standards that have been around for years. Most of the standards even pre-date IE6 (2001!) and still aren't properly supported in IE8.

For example, Open Office XML was released as an ISO format, meaning it is an international standard. Not even Word 2007, then the only program that saved in OOXML format, actually supported the format as they had stated it to be.

[青山 素子]

So again expect better support for IE with groups that aren't anti Microsoft.

I wouldn't say we're anti-Microsoft. Heck, one of our head developers used IE as their main browser! I believe several of our other developers also use IE a good bit of the time.

I'll try to make a somewhat official statement here concerning browser support. Our new semantic theme is being coded first to standards so that it works well in many browsers right away. This means that WebKit (Safari, Chrome, many mobile browsers), Opera, the Gecko Family (Firefox, Camino, Seamonkey, etc), and even KHTML (Konqueror) all display fine. That leaves Internet Explorer. It's a bit more difficult to work on since version 6 almost completely ignores standards, 7 fixes some things but is still broken on some, and 8 fixes many other things but still has issues. For all this, once the template works well semantically, we look at its behavior on Internet Explorer and see what is needed to fix things. A lot of fixes have been put in place since RC1, and a lot of template changes have happened since then as well. We'll get it working to the best of our ability by gold release time, but we need to do it the "standards" way first before we can start on workarounds.


That said, you could use the old table-based Core from Beta 4 if you need stability right now.

[aldo]

To be perfectly honest I think the main problem is that you and your members predominantly use IE, of one variety or another, while almost everyone on the SMF team avoids it like the plague.

Or tell them to use a different browser all together, or to at least update their OS once in awhile and install IE8 (It should be in Windows Update now)

I've been expecting this and it would explain a lot.  So you are saying SMF is anti Microsoft and this does force IE users to change.  Not a very nice way to treat IE users who make up the vast majority of online users is it.

I hope others are reading this

I'm not anti Microsoft. I am anything but that... Not only that, I still use IE as my main browser. (8 of course)

[septa/njt rider]

Heck, you guys think Simple Machines Forum software has compatibility issues with IE browsers? IPB is worst. sometimes, the stuff that's supposed to show up on the bottom of the page would mix in with the top. ugh. And if you ever saw a Zetaboards forum, you'd be grossed out too with the issues involved in Netscape usage,
lol I never wanna upgrade though because Netscape has that restart setting that Firefox doesn't have (if it does, oh well, Netscape is green). And let me tell you about the issues involved with viewing phpbb with IE6, lol. But here's the thing, my site runs with 2.0RC1-1 and it's pretty much public and no one complained there. All i'm sayin is.... you shoulda just stuck with SMF 1.1.x unless you were absolutely positively sure that 2.0RC1x would work properly, AND upgrading your internet browser is just a few clicks away 

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Bottom line with IE issues is that SMF is aiming for IE compatibility as well, so it's not like SMF is really against IE or IE users...

[wimvincken]

Try TikiWiki when you want to see something in action. It will bring down all computers in the network, or it will bring down the database for you and all hosting customers, or it will do something very bad on your disk, or it eats bandwidth, or suddenly your database is empty "... for no reason ..." and they do not speak about a release candidate, but a real release. And when you report it, they say "... I didn't know that!" and more of those jokes.

vbulletin is not much better, but not so radical. You pay more then $100 and what do you get? I look at the set of functionality and thought back to my old Writing Center III with SMF 1.4, which had more functionality and nobody was screaming that I changed the code like what happened with vb.

Well, there are not many other alternatives out there. The SMF is still the most advanced forum system out there and nobody can beat it until now. All the guys are volenteers and I appreciate their excellent work very much. I installed the latest version and I'm amazed because of so less bugs and problems. And all the problems there are easily overcome by alternatives or some coding from my side.

No, what ever the ones with problems claim, try to go to another. Can't imagine what they will do with other forum software, which is simply not there. Maybe you can try to use pen and paper and use US-mail instead of computer to have a nice discussion.

I personally think that the SMF is the best forum software out there and with the new version 2.x it becomes even better and the TikiWiki is the best software for the wiki-engines, which I both use. I survived all the problems TikiWiki caused and was very patiently and with the SMF, I was in charge. Thanks to both of the software I have a dedicated server and it pays itself back.

So, guys. Thank you so much, good work. The next release will be when it is ready.

Wim

[TheDisturbedOne]

About SMF being anti microsoft: Microsoft is anti web.  There are tons of things I have seen work fine in my ancient version of Netscape, but fail to work in IE (mainly IE6).

I have a good idea though.  Make IE open source!  Rarely do you see an open source project that has tons of bugs, unless there have been major changes to code. One of the reasons why FireFox is so popular.

[karlbenson]

I have a good idea though.  Make IE open source!  Rarely do you see an open source project that has tons of bugs, unless there have been major changes to code. One of the reasons why FireFox is so popular.

Not really. I've got just as many bugs in the Firefox 3.5 or 3 that annoy me as in IE8 (which is my primary browser).
I've also got several that annoy me in the latest versions of Chrome, Safari (besides its crashing/memory leaks), and several for Opera too.  So basically no matter what browser your using, there are bugs.  Its whether or not we (smf) can provide workarounds/temp fixes to limit the discomfort (or sometimes anger )

[TheDisturbedOne]

Oh, I never updated to 3/3.5, and don't think I have used a computer that has (suprisingly all the public computers I have used still have 2.0.20 or something like that).  The latest version of FF, I haven't seen many bugs in.

[Antechinus]

You're still using 2.0? Sheesh. Do yourself a favour, mate. Get 3.5. Seriously.

[Arantor]

I'm still using 2.0 on one test system (runs Win98 virtualised), 3.0 on my main system - I haven't moved to 3.5 yet because a lot of folk are still using 3.0.

[TheDisturbedOne]

You're still using 2.0? Sheesh. Do yourself a favour, mate. Get 3.5. Seriously.

I have, but it doesn't run on my OS
I have ancient operating systems.

[Antechinus]

Damn. Doncha just hate that?
At the risk of being burned at the stake for heresy I'd suggest checking out some of the other options if you want fast browsing and don't require a lot of the FF add-ons most of the time. Not sure offhand what OS Chrome will run on but it is very quick, if a trifle too basic and ugly for my liking.

I'm still using 2.0 on one test system (runs Win98 virtualised), 3.0 on my main system - I haven't moved to 3.5 yet because a lot of folk are still using 3.0.

Sure, I have a test copy of 2.0 but from what I saw there was no difference in rendering between 3.0 and 3.5, so I run two copies of 3.5 now (one general browser without the heavy duty web dev add-ons and one with a full-on toolkit).
You don't need to use virtualisation for multiple copies of FF of whatever version. You can run them all on the same drive simultaneously and completely independently.

[Arantor]

Sure, I have a test copy of 2.0 but from what I saw there was no difference in rendering between 3.0 and 3.5, so I run two copies of 3.5 now (one general browser without the heavy duty web dev add-ons and one with a full-on toolkit).
You don't need to use virtualisation for multiple copies of FF of whatever version. You can run them all on the same drive simultaneously and completely independently.

If only it were that simple... I'm essentially lazy and I hate messing round upsetting my hosts file regularly to do some light testing, so I have a given domain, www1.game.net (it's not actually that though), that locally points to localhost. But due to how I have VMware set up, browsing there in VMware resolves it to the test server that is on the internet, meaning I can separate local and remote testing. But because I only have two licenses - 1xXP, 1x98 - that's what I do.


I do think we've strayed from topic though.

The one question that has bugged me: if IE 8 is so great, why have they added EmulateIE7 rendering? Answer: because great swathes of the internet are broken unless rendered in IE's Trident engine.

[Antechinus]

Yup, and why are they broken? Because some sites are set up to detect IE7 and not IE8 yet, so they demand to be rendered as IE7. The good news is that IE8 is more compliant than 7, so hopefully in a few more years (decades?) the bodgy old Trident standards will be forgotten.

[rune-coders]

when did smf come?

[stog]

hi
interesting thread
ive just had to deal with members who are finding our forum screwed in IE 7

so i crank up the windows (On a mac) and updates await me - i havent had it on since testing our last software release in spring) - sure enuff the forum is screwed in IE7 and so i go to get firefox, meantime windows wants to update me to 8, great i want to test 8, but no it gets bogged down installing (could be the car registration i used as a serial number when i installed the virtual set up) anyhow...........

wga - so i go to firefox and find a d'load for ie 8 and its trundling thro those updates agian


anyhow i have had a look through the boards here this evening and although my forum - just updated 1.1.10 is fine on all other browsers - it does have 60 or more WWF errors, which id love to fix but -


i will do some testing this week
i have somewhere a copy of the forum as it was in 1.7 mode in february and i wil see if it works in IE.

also i read that tp blocks can interfere so although i turned off a few suspects before - i'll do some more on it and get back to you.

essentially i have mods and blocks and the front page really screws up with the forum boards not bad but without the log out/messages/home bar on top......

thx for a great smf - i really like it and look forward to trying out 2 when u recommend i do

and yes i want to be able for folks to see the forum in IE7/8, but i ain't missing sleep and meals over it, if the problem is really with the browser

2 hours later......

ok maybe i am loosing sleep...


it doesn't work in IE8 either, and im wondering how long it has been amess in windows- if it ever worked and why no one said anything!

I'm telling folks =ok just got word it's NOT ok in IE8 either so use firefox in windows sorry - but you will probably find other sites appearing better too!
http://www.fibsboard.com

latest (sat 11.12 am)
ive managed to get IE8 installed and fibsboard is not ok although other upgraded smf installations i manage do work - so i need to find what is giving problems - and to do that efficiently i need to know when fibsboard was last ok on IE7/8 roughly - 2 weeks ago, a month etc....(ive asked the members to help)

"you may notice areas of the front page disappearing as i try to isolate the culprit code, although i suspect it could be a combination of issues."

this experience could be 'beneficial' as when we do start migrating to the new version of fibsboard, i will systematically test on IE8......

OK FIXED IE7/8 NOW WORKING
sun nite!
ok found the culprit!!!
some trial non-working java script i had in the welcome area (via tp ad management) was doing it and i had failed to remove it sry!

so while firefox and safari will continue loading the page, IE errors

and yes it had only been there for a day or 2 -- so that's good

thx for alll your help and apologies as it was me!!

[gonemental]

@riker :

what do you expect as long as you're paying ZERO money for it ?

go pay for VB or IPB and you'll see patches and upgrades and bugs
every other month, don't think it will be much better than using SMF 2.0 RC...

i'm so sick of people wanting everything for free.

my 2 cents : if you can't code PHP, JS, HTML, you should stay away from open source
cms.

[Drumstick]

I think free is better but I do agree that you can't expect from free software that it has every month a few patches. But IPB and vB are overkill in my opinion....