Tabbed Boards

[Illori]

i think this thread started somewhere around here http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=441673.0

which includes a sample image.

[Antechinus]

There's a screenshot in another thread of the way MyBB does this, and it looks like category view (ie: all the boards in one category) with the other boards from other categories lined up as tabs. That's one way of doing it, and that could be done on BoardIndex.template quite easily.

[bloc]

Ah. With just the boards under each category its quite another thing. I remember I used that approach in a old 1.1 theme once. Didn't quite catch on though and I can't remember which one now lol.

I can def. see that as an alternative for long boardindex'es though. It would be many tabs for many categories, true, but one alternative then is to make the tabs act like Google Chrome tabs do: showing less and less of the title depending on how many tabs show up.

[edit] in fact, one fun idea would be to link the upshrink feature of categories to a "close" button on those tabs. Of course, you need to show somewhere to expand them back - but that could go under a link saying "closed categories" which then expand the closed links upon a page reload. Hm, I quite like that.

[xrunner]

Not sure what the idea is here..but as I understand its about showing all boards as tabs? with the selected board's topics underneath that row of tabs? That presents a small problem: in Boardindex you have all the boards, but no topic-index for any of them, in messageindex you do have the topic index for current board - but not the other boards names.

Yea that's the concept. You could still have banner labels for each category, and under those list the tabs for the boards. Of course it all requires re-coding a lot of things, but this is an idea for the next version of SMF.

Again, not sure if this is what you intended to do - but it echoes my thoughts around a theme draft I made last year with similar issues.

I think you got the idea, as I've said I think it's the way to go for a future design.

[smtek]

@Antechinus actually i am taking about what you did. Can you tell me how to make the category as tabs. I was finding this pretty hard .lol.

[Sverre]

I'm not sure if it's necessarily something I would use myself, but if I understand the proposal correctly, it would be very interesting to see a working example of a tabbed interface where the Board Index and Message Index have been "merged" into one.

[Kindred]

All I can sau is ICK, NO....

Mre specifically, this had darned well better not be the default because I despise tabs and would have to spend time disabling such functionality....   Especially on some of my forums which have 50+ board in more than 10 categories.

Oh, and Ant... I use boardindex regularly.... Every time I visit a forum, actually...

[Antechinus]

No it wouldn't be default.

If we do this I wouldn't make it admin's choice. I'd leave it up to the individual user. Admins tend to think the more complex their site is, the better it has to be.

But hey, don't read what I post. Nobody else does anyway.

[bloc]

All I can sau is ICK, NO....

Mre specifically, this had darned well better not be the default because I despise tabs and would have to spend time disabling such functionality....   Especially on some of my forums which have 50+ board in more than 10 categories.

Oh, and Ant... I use boardindex regularly.... Every time I visit a forum, actually...

Don't anyone here proposed it for default..default theme is (read: will need to be) a dull theme in terms of innovative features, catering as it must for a lot of different user's taste. Like yours.Like mine. Like No.obi-e1299.

No, this sounds like something for a custom theme, perhaps even JUST the changed template(s) to be added to a theme manually. The sad part(for me) is that someone prob. will make a small mod out of it, further watering down the no-moddding-inside-templates goal. Oh well.

[IchBin™]

Oh the Heresy Bloc! We must not deviate from the norm!! Would be nice to see us step out from the norm a little even if it means risking some bad feedback. Who knows where we might end up.

[bloc]

Oh the Heresy Bloc! We must not deviate from the norm!! Would be nice to see us step out from the norm a little even if it means risking some bad feedback. Who knows where we might end up.

Yeah..I almost betrayed myself there

But seerizly, do you ever think such a feature would fly in default theme, taking into account it has to be uniformly accepted by the small(ish) team first? That is a real problem, most times, for anyone doing something outside the normal: unless he/she can have the power to make changes and try out something new, without having to be at all times accepted by a sceptic team(which cannot be a good representative for all users), it just *won't happen*...

Luckily authors of custom themes don't have that barrier though, which is why I think this is meat for that creature and not for the default.

[xrunner]

Well, I just don't see why it's better the way it is now. I realize that's my opinion, but here's why -

I'm looking at my forum's front page. I see, going from left to right

1. A new post/no new post icon
2. A board label, and under that a short board description
3. Number of posts/topics
4. Last post by xxx, name of thread, date

All of that takes up the screen going from left to right. Is all that space/information really needed? I say no, not at all.

First off, A whole indicator to show new posts/no new posts isn't needed at all, that can be accomplished simply by some type of highlight or outline or small icon around or in one of the other info spaces - a whole standalone icon and the space for it is not necessary.

Number of posts/topics - IMHO it's just jazzy tech stuff that I've already said people don't care about, it can just be dropped without any problems.

Last post by stuff - again, I don't really look at it. Most people I think, including me, either look at their unread posts list or the most recent posts at the bottom of the screen. So, I think that block can be dropped.

So, IMHO, three blocks can just be dropped in a new design because the majority of people don't really care about that stuff. Now to the tabs, tabs are now perfect for the design, given my opinion of the information that isn't really needed on the page. Just make tabs for the boards, make them appear with a highlight or outline if there are new posts, Make the tabs dynamic where they expand when moused-over to show the board description perhaps. that leaves a whole lot of space under the tabs for a default or selected board to appear, along with some of the things that are there now at the bottom of the screen.

I think people are just used to looking at the way the forum is now and can't imagine a better design, but I think if you step back and think about it, as I said, much of what you see is not really useful, it's just been like that for so long it just seems "comfortable".

Another idea if you go with tabs is something FF uses now - Tab Groups -

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/what-are-tab-groups#w_why-should-i-use-tab-groups

[Kindred]

and see, this is one of the main things....   you have your preferences about looks, others have theirs...   only occasionally do those seem to overlap.
I am with Bloc... not because I think this "will never get done" as a default, but because I believe that it should be attempted as a custom theme and see the response before we make such a (poor, IMO, but that is just my opinion) major change.

The stuff which you say "most people ignore" is actually all stuff hat I use, regularly.


this is definitely the realm of theme, not mod.

[xrunner]

The stuff which you say "most people ignore" is actually all stuff hat I use, regularly.

Thanks for your response. I laid out my objective reasons for each block, so that others could respond to it analytically, but you didn't really do that, you just made a blanket statement that you prefer it the way it is. Could you tell me why you prefer those things? I'm trying to make this an objective conversation about the design, not subjective.

For example, why does anyone (you for example) want to look at look at the number of posts/topic of each board on the main page? Why is it important for that to be there. To me, as I said, it useless for the front page - maybe in the information center, but it's not something that regular members care about. Why do you like it on the front page, and the other things?

[Kindred]

you can't have a truly objective discussion about design...    The fact is "I like it this way" is as valid as your list...

And many of my members use those sections as well...
I have experimented with moving sections around, turning display on and off, etc.

[xrunner]

you can't have a truly objective discussion about design...    The fact is "I like it this way" is as valid as your list...

Maybe not totally, but you can try. That's what I'm attempting to do, try to make it as objective as possible. That's why I explained why I did not see those blocks as valuable. At least I put down reasons. You did not even try to explain why you like them. Can you not do this? I think we are on a pretty far end of the subjectivity scale here, we're not talking about colors and backgrounds, we're taking about why certain objective forum information (such as # of posts/topics) is displayed.

If the current design is subjective, then how was it arrived at? You mean there was no objective reasons for doing any of the design of the front forum page? I can't believe that. Did they throw darts?

And many of my members use those sections as well...

Why? What for? Am I missing something?

[Kindred]

why do my members use those sections?   Because they contain information which the users feel is useful or otherwise interesting.

Ant said that he thinks most users never use the boardindex...    I disagree, I ALWAYS use the board index...  I red recent replies and then start trolling the index for other stuff in sections that I like.

Many users base their "interest" on a section or topic based on the number of posts/topics in that section or the number of views a topic has received.

so, of your four items, I and many of my users DO use all four of them...   

[xrunner]

OK, thanks for engaging on this Kindred, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just think the design can be improved for the next version.

why do my members use those sections?   Because they contain information which the users feel is useful or otherwise interesting

...

so, of your four items, I and many of my users DO use all four of them...

I'm not making an absolute assertion that no members find the information useful/interesting on the main page. I'm making the assertion that most members don't care about it being there. Even I, as the Admin of my forum, don't care about it being there (I care about the information, but not there). I accept that you do, however. But the basis for design should be what's best for the many, not the few. And, even if you care about it, I'm not saying it should be deleted. It should be available elsewhere for people to look at OR an option for the page. SMF has lots of options that can be changed, why not these things (in the next version)?

Many users base their "interest" on a section or topic based on the number of posts/topics in that section or the number of views a topic has received.

OK, lets say that's it's true that many do (I don't believe it, but let's go with it for the time being). I believe users are interested in content, but let's talk about it the way it is.

The way it is now, it shows absolute numbers on the main page, let's use actual numbers from my forum from several boards -

Announcements

1819 Posts
148 Topics

New Member Introductions

6523 Posts
387 Topics

Main Think Tank

33472 Posts
1391 Topics

Science & Technology

11065 Posts
833 Topics

Literature

2699 Posts
142 Topics

If a member joins the forum, and is interested in Literature - not Science, are you saying that they will avoid Literature and try to post in Science, because Science has more topics/posts, and avoid Literature because it has a low post/topic count? Do you think they look at those numbers and think "Oh well, there's not as many posts in Literature, so I might as well not even post there". I just don't think members do that. I think they will respond to topics they like no matter what, or start topics they want to talk about no matter what the board count is. I just don't see where you are coming from on this. I mean, take a new forum with essentially Zero posts. How does it even get off the ground if what you are saying is true?

For example. If I started a new board with ZERO posts/topics, and the subject of the board was

"Soft Porn Pictures You Like"

I will GUARANTEE it will fill up faster than all the other boards. That really refutes your logic (for most people) - because people want content they like - they don't care about those absolute numbers of posts/topics.

But, even if you wanted an indication of board activity, you could do it smaller and take less space than what it's doing now. For example, you could create a little bar, the length of which corresponds to the board activity. For example take my Science board. You could multiply the post * topics you get a magnitude: 9,214,145. Simply scale this down by a number such as 10,000. You get 920. Make a bar for each board indicating the activity level and the length will be the result of the calculation. I just don't think many members use those absolute numbers, but if they want relative indications of activity, then they can see that with scaled bars, and it will take less room than the way it is now and look a lot sleeker. Put the bar under something else being displayed. If anyone wants the real numbers they are welcome to look for them in the Stats area. Why they would want them I've no idea, but they will be there.

[Kindred]

Oh, I am not trying to be (particularly) argumentative... I'm just a blunt sort of fellow..

again, I am not arguing that the interface might not be simplified or improved...  it obviously can be.

I disagree with taking out most of the stuff you have listed... and I strenuously disagree with the whole "tabs" concept (on a personal level, I despise the frequency that people want to and do use "tabs")

As I said, it's not necessarily a bad idea to simplify. However, such a major redesign as you are suggesting should be tested as a custom theme first, IMO.   Get a theme designed that does what you are saying and see what the community says about it.

[bloc]

Thats true - many of my theme experiments have been "lets try it and see, before we conclude".

Going back to why stats and last post are important: like Kindred says they DO say something about amount of participation. It doesn't really help with forums that have exact type of boards like "science" and "movies", where users have no choice..but these forums are (IME) more seldom. Most times the boards simply fill up with lots of general names and users can pick and choose.

In those cases, and there are many, the stats and the last post have a meaning.

That said, I personally like a boardindex without them. I look at "unread" page mostly, and even more so, at "replies" page. So if those could be toned down, one idea is to make small icons and only show stats and last post inside a popup. That would leave each board on a single line, effectively reducing the height with 2/3 of it current height.

Tabs look nice..but they also make the page less easy to read in a single scroll. You must click all those tabs then, cumbersome if you just scour the index for new stuff.