One month

[live627]

Are you counting those mods in the public board as part of the queue?

[FrizzleFried]

@FrizzleFried I already answered you:

As for your inquire:

Its because I got burned out.
There are 5 mods on the queue.
Only I am doing reviews.

I hope this covers all your inquires so we can go back to our normal routine of you receiving free and safe mods and me working o those mods so you can use them safely.

Thank you for your suggestions.

I already told you my rantings were not towards you personally, it was just bad timing.  Let's just move on and get busy with our own duties.

Yes, venting my frustrations is usually considered by others as drama, I got used to that already.

I have no issues with going public with the amount of mods in the queue, is not super sekrit information nor it would lead to the fall of capitalism, just next time ask directly:

why you took a month to approve mods?
how many mods are in the queue?
how many people are working on them?

So I can answer you plain flat:

Its because I got burned out.
There are 5 mods on the queue.
Only I am doing reviews.

and we can all go back to our daily activities.

I think,  again,  there is a communication breakdown due to language barriers.  All discussion since your last post has been between others and myself... none directed at you sir.    I will keep your advise in mind though...

[All Colours Sam]

Are you counting those mods in the public board as part of the queue?

Nope, non of them are in the modsite either.

@FrizzleFried no problem, but I'm not a sir

[[SiNaN]]

This is one of the reasons I wanted the review process to be public, so people can see with their own eyes how thins thing works, to people actually participate on the process and make it faster and more, more pleasant to everyone. But I realized that people doesn't want to get involve, not sir, they only want to get spoon-feed.

Not sure if repeating myself would help but I don't think the reason is they don't want to get involved. There isn't any systematic way of contributing to mod/theme approvals without becoming a part of team. Mod Development board will hardly help with that in its current state. I'll again say that allowing members of a group that anyone can join to view the unapproved mods/themes and providing them with a systematic way of providing feedback for the mod/theme (where you'll actually have a checklist they can tick and stuff) will be a lot lot more productive than a board without any direction. If you are really worried about allowing unsecure mods being downloaded by members of this group, you could introduce pre-approvals by team members where only security will be the concern. If there was such a system in place where one could actually interact with the Mod/Theme Site and the que itself, even I could have lended a hand with approvals every now and then. And I'm sure there are plenty of people bored out there but doesn't want to be a part of the team.

[emanuele]

There isn't any systematic way of contributing to mod/theme approvals without becoming a part of team. Mod Development board will hardly help with that in its current state. I'll again say that allowing members of a group that anyone can join to view the unapproved mods/themes and providing them with a systematic way of providing feedback for the mod/theme (where you'll actually have a checklist they can tick and stuff) will be a lot lot more productive than a board without any direction.

There is a group that anyone can join and that allows to download non-approved mods.
There is a check-list (see: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=477692.0 ) of things to check in a mod (nobody said it's perfect, if you have suggestions are welcome), they are even grouped in order to allow people to review few of them at a time and report back (it seems rather intuitive to me, but I'm part of the process, so I'm biased).

So, I see a direction. It can be improved with tools to support part of the work, with other ideas on the procedure, but the main thing is there: people can review mods and participate to the approval.
The only missing thing is a parser, but since just few people would rely only on the parser to review a mod (and nowadays with hooks you can't do that any more... pita ) it's not a big issue.

[IchBin™]

Sinan,

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I disagree with you and think Suki is right on the money. People for the most part don't want to get involved. They just want their mods/themes on our site without any hassle as quickly as possible.

The mod approval board gives explicit instructions on what to review for if you care to read the stickies. From which you can create your own checklist. The mod approval board is just one step toward a goal. Just because it doesn't reach the goal that you see, doesn't mean it's a failure.

[All Colours Sam]

I see repeating myself didn't work either.

There is no solution to this problem, change the system, change the persons, change anything you want, doesn't matter. Lazy people are lazy.

There is no panacea, certainly the community review system isn't a panacea, I don't know how many times I already told that (gotta put it on my signature!).

Maybe to you having the community so tightly controlled (to the point of they be able to only check some checkboxes rather than freely speaking their minds in a topic where everyone can see and participate) works, for me it just doesn't work and never will be.

Everyone thinks different and have different approaches to the same thing, if another team member or any community user gets a better idea I will support it and will offer my help on whatever I can rather than sit there and criticizes their idea, but that is just me, again, not everyone thinks an acts the same.

If everything I did fails, so be it, at least I did tried something and I don't/didn't/won't let people who always see the glass half empty to bring me down...

Anyway, people interested on actually help will always have my doors open, to the rest, I'm sorry but I will ignore them and concentrate on my work and those interested on help out.

[[SiNaN]]

There is a group that anyone can join and that allows to download non-approved mods.

In this past month there has been 3 mods posted in that board; two of them are by team members and one of them is a WIP. Are they all the unapproved mods waiting in the queue? I'm sure there are other unapproved mods in the Mod Site. If not, Customizers are burned out because of 2 mods, both of them by team members? What I am saying is, the approval process is going on in the Mod Site, not in that board. The effect of that board on the actual approval process isn't clear either. The board is good for developing ideas for the mods but I don't think it can help with approvals when it doesn't have any links to where approvals actually take place.

People for the most part don't want to get involved. They just want their mods/themes on our site without any hassle as quickly as possible.

Although the number of people who "just want their mods/themes on our site without any hassle as quickly as possible" is more, there are and will be people who will want to get involved. Just give them the chance and show them the way to do it, clearly, with the necessary tools. For example, let them be able to use the Mod Site like people with approval permissions can use, obviously with particular limitations.

There is no solution to this problem, change the system, change the persons, change anything you want, doesn't matter. Lazy people are lazy.

There is a solution to everything. But I don't think that train of thought would help finding it though.

[All Colours Sam]

In this past month there has been 3 mods posted in that board; two of them are by team members and one of them is a WIP. Are they all the unapproved mods waiting in the queue? I'm sure there are other unapproved mods in the Mod Site. If not, Customizers are burned out because of 2 mods, both of them by team members? What I am saying is, the approval process is going on in the Mod Site, not in that board. The effect of that board on the actual approval process isn't clear either. The board is good for developing ideas for the mods but I don't think it can help with approvals when it doesn't have any links to where approvals actually take place.

I'm sorry but you just don't have the right to talk about anything regarding the process.

You aren't a team member anymore, you don't have access to the team boards, you aren't here on a regular basis either.

You don't even care to read all the replies in here.

There are only 5 mods in the queue.  And not, I didn't got burned out because of those mods... I got burned out from all the mods that were approved since I got purple (there was a 10 page queue at that time) the entire team tackle down the queue to only 1 page, then everyone just got inactive or went to another positions and the queue got back to 5 pages, that is when I got burned out, by reducing the queue to just 1 page by myself so please, before actually commenting on things, make sure you get your facts right...

Oh the joy of throwing rocks to the ones who actually are doing something from the comfort, mediocre, duty-free seat you are sitting right now... it's quite tempting, but no, like I said, I'm not that kind of person who just sits there to criticizes those who dare to try something new.

Do me a favor and come back when you have something tangible to show and not just words...  contact me lead or the entire SC if you want and expose to them how exactly are you going to solve this issues.

This is starting to piss me off really, you aren't even here anymore yet you want to do everything at your own will... well, I got news for you, you aren't a team member, I am, you don't have any obligations anymore, I do, you don't have any burdens, I do, oyu don't have to worry about complains, I do, you don't have to sit and see how everything falls apart despise your efforts...  I do.

If you have so many brilliant ideas, then be a man, step up, become a customizer and

DO SOMETHING

if not, then just shut up.

******... if I see another complain from you I'm off...

[FrizzleFried]

Are you counting those mods in the public board as part of the queue?

Nope, non of them are in the modsite either.

@FrizzleFried no problem, but I'm not a sir

Pardon me,  ma'am... (I probably should have payed more attention to your avatar)...

[[SiNaN]]

******... if I see another complain from you I'm off...

You can be sure that you won't see, as you don't seem to be able to keep the discussion civil.

[emanuele]

There is a group that anyone can join and that allows to download non-approved mods.

In this past month there has been 3 mods posted in that board; two of them are by team members and one of them is a WIP. Are they all the unapproved mods waiting in the queue? I'm sure there are other unapproved mods in the Mod Site. If not, Customizers are burned out because of 2 mods, both of them by team members?

You should very well know that *any* (even the simplest) of my mods could burn out anyone!
That said Suki already explained the "how to", so no need to go deeper, just a note on the fact that as you should remember the mod queue is far from being linear so you may have 3/4 months with 2/3 mods per month, than a month with 25 mods submitted at once, so take a random month and evaluate the success of an initiative about mods in this period is not possible. Next year we weill be able to say something about if and how this board helped the mod site or not.

From the moment the board has been open on the mod site has been submitted 13 mods. In the current approval queue there are 5 mods: one is 2 years old (you may easily imagine which one is it), one was submitted a little before the board was opened, so from the list of mods submitted to the mod site from the opening of the board there are still 3 unapproved.
Of course you cannot expect that people will post immediately their mods directly to that board, that's also the reason why 2 of them are from team members (to "show the way").

What I am saying is, the approval process is going on in the Mod Site, not in that board. The effect of that board on the actual approval process isn't clear either. The board is good for developing ideas for the mods but I don't think it can help with approvals when it doesn't have any links to where approvals actually take place.

AFAIU the point of the board is to check mods for approval (that's why I find strange a [WIP], but not a big deal) in an open environment and when checked ask the author to submit the mod to the mod site.

[live627]

you don't seem to be able to keep the discussion civil

Dude, the ******. You clearly have a problem in this.  Don't do this. Just let Suki do her thing without jumping out and saying it won't work. Let it go, bro. Let it go.

I foresee this thread being locked. I'll be surprised if it isn't by tomorrow.

[All Colours Sam]

I will keep it civil when you don't come here and start attacking me and my initiatives. You get what you give, deal with it.

You don't want to discuss anything, you just had demoting everything I did, that is not a discussion by any means.

If you keep attacking me then I will keep calling you mediocre because, well, thats what you are right now, from your position it is so easy to talk and demoting since you don't have any responsibilities, you aren't working on the queue, you aren't even here, you just come here every month, leave 1 post or 2 and then leave again, you aren't even aware of all the things that happen on the forum, want to discuss with me? become a customizer, work as hard as I am, then and only then I will take your ideas into account.

It seems that you are only discharging your frustrations on me... well, please don't do that, don't blame me for things that you couldn't do back then. Not my fault and I couldn't care less.

[FrizzleFried]

Jesus... I sure opened a can of worms.  I apologize for the drama caused... it wasn't intentional.  I TRULY thought there was a "TEAM" of people working on the review process... while not specific,  that is the general "impression" one would get when visiting this site and the mod site.  I find it odd/disconcerting that only one person is running the show... and apparently quite frustrated with that fact. 

[[SiNaN]]

Regardless of your contribution and position, you do not have the right to talk to me in that manner. Please choose your words carefully and read your posts before posting them.

[All Colours Sam]

Regardless of your contribution and position, you do not have the right to talk to me in that manner. Please choose your words carefully and read your posts before posting them.

That is funny, I was going to ask you the exact same thing, looks like we finally agree on something

[NanoSector]

Jesus... I sure opened a can of worms.  I apologize for the drama caused... it wasn't intentional.  I TRULY thought there was a "TEAM" of people working on the review process... while not specific,  that is the general "impression" one would get when visiting this site and the mod site.  I find it odd/disconcerting that only one person is running the show... and apparently quite frustrated with that fact. 

It really is a come-n-go situation, you can come and review whatever mod you want and leave when you don't feel like reviewing it anymore. I've been trying to help in the reviewing process, time to pick this up.

What is your mod? I might get to reviewing it now, if it hasn't been reviewed already.

[Arantor]

Jesus... I sure opened a can of worms.  I apologize for the drama caused... it wasn't intentional.  I TRULY thought there was a "TEAM" of people working on the review process... while not specific,  that is the general "impression" one would get when visiting this site and the mod site.  I find it odd/disconcerting that only one person is running the show... and apparently quite frustrated with that fact. 

And therein lies the problem. All three of the people that are really p***ed off in this debate (Sinan, myself, Suki) are three generations of Customizer who've all been through this, all at some point being the only person reviewing mods and all of us have been burned out at some stage because of it.

The reason why we're so adamant about things is because we all want what's best and we're frustrated that nothing that's been tried seems as successful as we'd like it to be. I really hope that where we're going to is a better place, because SMF needs its customisation community, though I'm fairly certain the approval process is only a small part of the problem - better documentation and more examples of how to do things would probably help a bit more, really.

[emanuele]

* emanuele has been the only lucky one to skip the Cust stage and go directly to dev!