blocweb.net????

[Antechinus]

Can't think of any offhand. Got some examples?

ETA: TBH, having themed both 1.1.x and 2.0.x, I know which one I'd rather be working with if I wanted to get creative. 1.1.x templates are an absolute nightmare once you get into them.

[ARG01]

I am thinking more of the areas that the main_block.png has taken the place of. Good examples would be the flexibility with graphics that we had with the old TP themes that we used to build for 1.1.x.

[Antechinus]

Ok, but main_block.png is only the most handy way of dealing with Curve itself when trying to support older browsers, which was a consideration during 2.0.x development.

You can't tell me........well ok, you can but.........................that the default theme relying on a particular image is a limitation for creative themers.

That's rather like saying that since the 1.1.x default had a particular image for catbg.gif, no custom theme can change how the presentation of header bars is handled. It would seem to be a very limited way of defining "creative".

If you're writing a custom theme, you're changing CSS anyway. The calling of main_block.png is only CSS, and pretty basic CSS at that. If you want to have a custom theme that doesn't use that image, simply call something else. I see no limitation.

[ARG01]

As I stated: 

The same can be done with 2.0.x but not without a lot of custom code changes.

Besides, I no longer use the main_block or menu_gfx images in my themes.

[Antechinus]

Yeah but it's only a bit of css.

[bloc]

Its been said before - but the CSS code in SMF 2.0 is absolute necessary for making the pages show up in a readable way.

In 1.1 themes you could get away with removing most styles since the markup relied on tables primary + it had fewer common classes. In SMF 2.0 there are a serious amount of styles that needs attention if you want to do anything other than just color changes, not to mention changing the markup.

That said, I prefer SMF 2.0. But its taken me quite some time to get acquainted enough wit it, to replace it fully. I can't see many others doing that, and thus its a less creative system than before. Its no good if only the devs can work with effortlessly. Maybe my own version is just as hard, but I do use more classes/grid system, which lend me the freedom the tables did in 1.1. If you look at http://www.bjornhkristiansen.com/index.php you see it in action - requiring no extra styles save some inline stuff on the frontpage.

But again, I don't want to try to make squares fit in round holes anymore..SMF should have had that versatility from the start since it has such a powerful theme system. But lets face it, SMF themes are *never* going to be as creative as blog themes, even if I personally think it should..heck, I KNOW it can. So what is the point trying to? People seem quite happy with Curve variation number 999 anyway.

[Antechinus]

Yeah I know. The problems are several IMO. One is the number of classes in 2.0.x. There are too many, and they are sometimes in conflict if you want to get creative. Part of this comes down to the amount of markup, which was a consequence of supporting prehistoric browsers. Some of it is just because the templating was a bit of a "horse designed by committee".

The main problem though is as you said: people are happy with not being creative.

Although the 1.1.x tables meant you needed less CSS, they also meant you had fewer options for being creative unless you entirely rebuilt the templates. That's possible, but is beyond a lot of people and can be, depending on the template in question, and absolute nightmare to figure out due to the number of nested tables.

I get the distinct impression that what many people mean by "creative theming" is changing the basic wrappers in a few places without touching any of the details. That's not my definition of the term.

ETA: The other point is that back in the days when 1.1.x themers were "being creative" they didn't care about breaking mod installation. If a mod didn't work, too bad. Do the changes manually. These days everyone seems to be freaked out at the idea that every mod might not install automatically, which does limit your options.

[bloc]

True, but unfortunelately neither Elkarte, SMF 2.1 or Wedge(the 3 most active afaik) makes that situation much better. In the little I have looked SMF 2.1/Elkarte doesn't change that much from SMF 2.0 but Wedge makes quite some changes, although not so much from a themers point of view, but more from the modders(though i know the devs will disagreed, neither of them have made any themes to speak of so its more an exercise in what they *think* will be helpful ).

Thats fine actually..but if those are all there are to choose from, then I'll stick with my own brew. Not because its necessary any "better" than the others mind you, but because its the result of working with tens of themes through the years. Its just works for me.

[Antechinus]

Fair enough.

[Biology Forums]

I'd love access to bloc's old 1.x themes. I try looking for them on Google every now and again for inspiration

[Antechinus]

I've got over 30 of them stashed on my pooter, from the old 1.1.x days.

[Biology Forums]

I've got over 30 of them stashed on my pooter, from the old 1.1.x days.

That's way more than I thought existed...

Bloc, please consider releasing them on Github or something.

[ARG01]

I've got over 30 of them stashed on my pooter, from the old 1.1.x days.

That's way more than I thought existed...

Bloc, please consider releasing them on Github or something.

I still have almost every SMF 1.1.x theme ever made. 

[kat]

People seem quite happy with Curve variation number 999 anyway.

I, for one, am certainly not. Each time there was a new theme, I always took a look, just to see if anything "Wow!" turned-up. I haven't bothered to take even a peek, for ages, coz I got bored to death with the "Same old, same old" stuff turning-up. They're all so bland.

I almost prayed for a v2 version of TechHead to arrive.

[bloc]

I'd rather not put those on Github, but if you need any drop me an email and I'll send it over if you like, Liam.

Fair enough.

It might seem I am being "difficult" here lmao, but its really what I landed on, after trying all the current scripts and seeing how those need so much work, for my stuff. I want to change so much, too much I fear...

Anyways...I am leaving the door open for future themes though. Particulary some recent redesigns of Facebook/Linkedin posted on Behance for example(as well as the fortcoming FB facelift itself) have spurred me to try out some "redesigns" of SMF. Maybe I'll post those eventually.

People seem quite happy with Curve variation number 999 anyway.

I, for one, am certainly not. Each time there was a new theme, I always took a look, just to see if anything "Wow!" turned-up. I haven't bothered to take even a peek, for ages, coz I got bored to death with the "Same old, same old" stuff turning-up. They're all so bland.

I almost prayed for a v2 version of TechHead to arrive.

Ah, TechHead..that was some years ago.

[kat]

Just a few.

That was entirely unique, that one. Rather like Helios, in that. I remember quite liking Cerberus, too, around the same time.

[bloc]

I was in a very "try everything" mood then I think, inspired by games etc, which had all these metallic surfaces. It was fun, and really no reason what it can't be used today too. The real lesson from those was how to make tiny image bits repeat in a good way, and still look like one image more or less. Using sprites was already then something I used, although I used PHP to repeat these image parts - saving bandwidth , true, - but hopelessly table-based.

[kat]

So, as someone who knows little about such matters, what would it take to get TechHead to work with v2? Could it be, in effect, converted? Or, would it need rewriting from scratch?

[Antechinus]

It might seem I am being "difficult" here lmao, but its really what I landed on, after trying all the current scripts and seeing how those need so much work, for my stuff. I want to change so much, too much I fear...

Oh don't worry. I mean in case you hadn't noticed, I can occasionally be slightly difficult myself.

I also have my preferred way of writing templates and css, and it's a bit dfferent to yours. IIRC, last time we disagreed you were more into OOCSS than I was. I understand the attractions of it, but I can't get past the feeling that it's hardly different to inline CSS, because it requires declaring a lot of presentational classes in the markup.

IMO, that is much like having actual presentation in the markup, not only in conceptual terms but also in the amount of HTML you need to generate. It also makes for some rather convoluted CSS declarations. I'm not at all sure this is really the way to make things easier for people. Although some people rave about OOCSS, I have heard less favourable opinions, even from some who worked in the same teams as the originator of that style. Check reply #28 here for an example.

So, as someone who knows little about such matters, what would it take to get TechHead to work with v2? Could it be, in effect, converted? Or, would it need rewriting from scratch?

Converting any 1.1.x theme to 2.0.x is basically a matter of writing it from scratch. TechHead should be fairly easy as such things go, from what I remember of that theme.

[kat]

Not easy enough that I could even begin, of course.