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Author Topic: How to turn off PM reporting?  (Read 817 times)

Offline PLAYBOY

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How to turn off PM reporting?
« on: June 08, 2018, 05:25:14 PM »
I partly ban members sometimes but they can still send me and other admins a message by reporting the PMs they have received before.

I just want them to not being able to do anything except read in the forum but they can still report the PMs and add their own comment there which goes directly to all the admins. How can I turn this off especially for a specific groupmembers ?

Offline Illori

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 05:39:53 PM »
currently it is not possible per member group. you would need a mod.

Offline PLAYBOY

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2018, 05:46:08 PM »
This is obviously a bug. Because when you ban a person and that person can still communicate with the admins or participate in the forum then it`s a problem in the default settings.

I think this should be added as a settings in the next update. It`s not only for one groupmembers but this is also happening when you partly ban a person from the group for like 30 days...

Offline Kindred

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2018, 08:11:04 PM »
its not a bug... it just doesn't work the way you THINK it should.
It works exactly as we INTEND it to work...

If you want to BAN someone and not let them do anything, then BAN them completely by ACCOUNT and EMAIL. don't ban them by IP.
Then they can read your forum as a guest, but can not log in, therefore, they will not be able to participate.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline Illori

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2018, 08:18:29 PM »
If they are completely banned they can't even read the forum as a guest.

Offline PLAYBOY

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2018, 08:37:13 PM »
I know you guys are all experienced people and experts of SMF. I understand and respect you. Also this is mostly volunteer based work so your first intention is always to push back and find a work-around. This is very normal

But Maybe try to look at it from my perspective this time. I`m a Software Project Manager (with a PMP). Delivered pretty large projects for large enterprises before. If I built SMF and a customer tells me that there`s no way to stop a person from participating while they can read their PMs, see their notifications and login to keep up with their posts I`d call that an issue because you can partially "ban" a person but they can still contact you and keep bothering you. Then what`s the point of ban at all? I`d try to fix it ASAP especially because this is a small issue with a quick fix.

You can completely ban a person but then they can not even loginso this is not what I want. Partial ban is there for a reason. My other solution was to create a special membergroup where I can remove each right from that person but even that method doesn`t have a way to stop him from sending PM reporting.

So there`s something missing here. I don`t think this is an enhancement but this is a bug because partial ban was suppose to stop that person from bothering you and other members and It doesn`t do its task completely. I know it`s a small detail and a minor issue but maybe the user case was not well thought during development of that section which is totally normal because it`s a small issue.

At the same time you`re under no obligation to do anything I say. I`m not paying your salary. Heck, I don`t even participate in this forum unless I have a problem. But I thought this could be a constructive feedback and an opportunity for the core team to improve the product.

You guys have the final saying...
Thanks for reading

Offline efk

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2018, 10:17:01 PM »
I agree with PLAYBOY on this, even if I never noticed it, for things like this should be an option in admin panel to block users completely.

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2018, 10:25:47 PM »
Admin -> Members -> Permissions -> Settings -> "Enable the option to deny permissions"

Create a membergroup that is denied access to PMs, and reporting posts to the moderators.
Add the partially banned member to the group. Problem solved.

This is obviously a bug. Because when you ban a person and that person can still communicate with the admins or participate in the forum then it`s a problem in the default settings.

I think this should be added as a settings in the next update. It`s not only for one groupmembers but this is also happening when you partly ban a person from the group for like 30 days...
However, this is in no way a bug. A partial ban is a partial ban - there is the full ban option if you really do not want to allow them any actions on the forum.

Most forums I know of, would not even try to stop a banned member from contacting the administration completely,
and bothering the administration for nothing could result in a full ban. ( I for one have a contact form on my forum that even guests can use... )
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 10:40:49 PM by Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen »
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Offline PLAYBOY

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2018, 11:31:59 PM »
Quote
Create a membergroup that is denied access to PMs, and reporting posts to the moderators.
Add the partially banned member to the group. Problem solved.

Nope. Because this is a partial ban and those people should be able to access their PMs along with everything else but not intereact/participate/communicate with anyone.


To simplify the issue here...

1- Partial ban is suppose to let them have access to everything as usual but not bother anyone anymore. However they can still report PMs with any comment added which will go to ALL admins. Not only one.

I don`t see any problem with full ban ATM.

2- Reporting a PM should be a permission just like reporting a post is already on the permission page to be enabled/disabled for any membergroup


and again guys, this is a very minor issue with quick fix. So I don`t think there`s so much to talk about here. Devs will either fix the issue or not

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2018, 11:44:30 PM »
The partial ban will let them read the forum and their PMs and not bother anyone, except Admins.

The PM reporting is not designed to be a privilege, it is designed to be a forum wide safety feature for the users, that depending on the type of forum can be enabled and disabled by the Admin.

If they are allowed to read their PMs, and if the rest of the forum can still send them PMs, then they should also have the option to report PMs if the forum has that enabled.
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Offline PLAYBOY

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2018, 11:55:48 PM »
Quote
The partial ban will let them read the forum and their PMs and not bother anyone, except Admins.
I`d agree with you if they couldn`t add a comment in those reports and keep cussing at the admins or just say stupid stuff in general.
Now, It wouldn`t be fair to kick him out of the forum because of personal issues but at the same time he ruins your everyday... It`s a privilege for them, a bug for us.

Quote
If they are allowed to read their PMs, and if the rest of the forum can still send them PMs, then they should also have the option to report PMs if the forum has that enabled.

Fair enough only if they can`t add a comment to those reports because that comment section is an outlet for a person you`re trying to silence

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2018, 12:00:43 AM »
I do completely understand that it can be a nuisance, but personally that's where I would draw the line myself - and say that continuing such behavior will lead to getting the boot completely for a while. That is what the ban hammer is for.
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Offline PLAYBOY

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2018, 12:03:41 AM »
I do completely understand that it can be a nuisance, but personally that's where I would draw the line myself - and say that continuing such behavior will lead to getting the boot completely for a while. That is what the ban hammer is for.

But again, booting someone because of personal issues and he`s bothering you personally through a right you provided him technically really doesn`t sound fair to me

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2018, 12:24:02 AM »
You can make it more difficult for them with a small tweak at PersonalMessage.template.php

Find
Code: [Select]
<div class="post">
<div class="inner" id="msg_', $message['id'], '"', '>', $message['body'], '</div>
<div class="smalltext reportlinks">
', (!empty($modSettings['enableReportPM']) && $context['folder'] != 'sent' ? '<div class="righttext"><a href="' . $scripturl . '?action=pm;sa=report;l=' . $context['current_label_id'] . ';pmsg=' . $message['id'] . '">' . $txt['pm_report_to_admin'] . '</a></div>' : '');

Replace with
Code: [Select]
<div class="post">
<div class="inner" id="msg_', $message['id'], '"', '>', $message['body'], '</div>
<div class="smalltext reportlinks">
', (!empty($modSettings['enableReportPM']) && $context['folder'] != 'sent' && $context['can_send_pm'] ? '<div class="righttext"><a href="' . $scripturl . '?action=pm;sa=report;l=' . $context['current_label_id'] . ';pmsg=' . $message['id'] . '">' . $txt['pm_report_to_admin'] . '</a></div>' : '');

This will not effectively remove the functionality, but it will hide the link for it if you can't send PMs.
A Finnish Support Specialist
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 Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

Offline PLAYBOY

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2018, 12:51:47 AM »
You can make it more difficult for them with a small tweak at PersonalMessage.template.php

Find
Code: [Select]
<div class="post">
<div class="inner" id="msg_', $message['id'], '"', '>', $message['body'], '</div>
<div class="smalltext reportlinks">
', (!empty($modSettings['enableReportPM']) && $context['folder'] != 'sent' ? '<div class="righttext"><a href="' . $scripturl . '?action=pm;sa=report;l=' . $context['current_label_id'] . ';pmsg=' . $message['id'] . '">' . $txt['pm_report_to_admin'] . '</a></div>' : '');

Replace with
Code: [Select]
<div class="post">
<div class="inner" id="msg_', $message['id'], '"', '>', $message['body'], '</div>
<div class="smalltext reportlinks">
', (!empty($modSettings['enableReportPM']) && $context['folder'] != 'sent' && $context['can_send_pm'] ? '<div class="righttext"><a href="' . $scripturl . '?action=pm;sa=report;l=' . $context['current_label_id'] . ';pmsg=' . $message['id'] . '">' . $txt['pm_report_to_admin'] . '</a></div>' : '');

This will not effectively remove the functionality, but it will hide the link for it if you can't send PMs.

Not efficient enough, but at least you tried to solve the issue. Your intentions and your understanding sir, are well appreciated.

Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2018, 02:47:26 AM »
Well, in order to actually check if a member is partially banned, and then limit functionality in a certain area of the forum,
you would need to do a little more than just add a simple check - simply because the information to check for isn't available by default.
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 Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

Offline Kindred

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2018, 11:32:02 AM »
If they are completely banned they can't even read the forum as a guest.

only if you ban by IP...  If you only ban by account and email, then they can still view the forum as a guest.


Incidentally, Playboy, I am also a PMP in software.
As I said, YOU think its an issue...   I say it's as we designed exactly for the reason that lex explained. We disagree with your usecase.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline GigaWatt

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2018, 12:59:27 PM »
But again, booting someone because of personal issues and he`s bothering you personally through a right you provided him technically really doesn`t sound fair to me

Sounds to me like you're being a bit too lenient.

If you're an admin, you're pretty much like judge, jury and executioner when it comes to banning members. If a fly is bothering you, would you take the fly's personal feelings into account before you smack it? No. Why? Because it's a fly... and also because you can't understand why it's doing that (bothering you), you're bigger than it, so... why bother understanding why it's bothering you, right. Just squish it, problem solved. The same thing applies here. The member can't harm you, because he has a partial ban and because he's a regular member, but he's bothering you, you can't seem to reason with him (flies can't talk), so just "squish him". You're bigger than him and you're the one in power, you're the one running the forum, not him. If he doesn't like the way you're running it, he can just stop visiting it, period. If he doesn't want to stop visiting it and still bothers you... that's what the full ban is for.
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Offline efk

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Re: How to turn off PM reporting?
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2018, 09:43:45 AM »
Maybe a way to stop banned user without doing any change is to place him on Annoy list https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2232 , set message and he should not be able to spam anymore.