Not sure what to call this feature...trackback-non? Tree View?

[Clara Listensprechen]

I've been going 'round many mulberry bushes about this feature all because of somebody whose name I dare not bring up lest this get confused with what he wants--------- and so I propose an alternative which will work for my needs in similar vein. The goal is to trace a line of discussion from an offshoot branch back to the original to get a handle on where the discussion has been to get to the current point (and all the research data, links, development) that has occurred to date. There once existed another board that had this method of trackback without necessarily giving each post a unique ID or link that a spammer could use to exploit as a vulnerability.

It was a button that would select Flat View or Tree View. Flat View is pretty much what SMF already operates on, and I've seen one SMF board that used what limited Tree View operation that it is currently capable of doing (so I know this is doable).  I would like for that capability to be expanded to where a person could indeed select from viewing each post in chronological order that they were posted (Flat View) or be able to view who responded to which post and all the other branch-offs of the original discussion like sort of a thread map (Tree View, or Branch View; the now-defunct board that offered this utility called it Thread View).

On boards where the community is research-oriented, this capability is invaluable. Thank you for your consideration.

[Clara Listensprechen]

Well, I can't find a cached shot of the defunct board I was referring to, but here's a shot of the sorta-Tree View I had in mind--difference is that posts are also mapped out in the ...what is it you call it, linktree? If so, what I ask is a more sophisticated linktree including a map of what messages are responses to what other messages too, plus a button that provides a toggle between Flat View and Tree View.

[live627]

I've been going 'round many mulberry bushes about this feature all because of somebody whose name I dare not bring up lest this get confused with what he want

So you come here crying for help like a baby just because Arantor pissed you off by saying no when you wanted him to implement that in Wedge. Sure, sure, bang your head against a desk!

I'm certainly NOT happy with you!

[Antechinus]

Umm, it's just another feature request. There's no need to attack her over it. What other people may or may not be doing with their fork has no bearing on what we do here. We make our own decisions independently.

Anyway:

There once existed another board that had this method of trackback without necessarily giving each post a unique ID or link that a spammer could use to exploit as a vulnerability.

All posts on any forum application have a unique, linked ID. They have to have this or it would be impossible to find them. Finding things like that online relies intrinsically on them having been assigned unique url's. It's not a vulnerability at all. It's just another url like any of the billions of url's on the web.

I'm really not sure what you are hoping to achieve with your proposal.

[live627]

Umm, it's just another feature request. There's no need to attack her over it. What other people may or may not be doing with their fork has no bearing on what we do here. We make our own decisions independently.

Well, she ran here hoping you'd do it after getting a no. Therein lies the problem.

[Clara Listensprechen]

Umm, it's just another feature request. There's no need to attack her over it. What other people may or may not be doing with their fork has no bearing on what we do here. We make our own decisions independently.

Anyway:

There once existed another board that had this method of trackback without necessarily giving each post a unique ID or link that a spammer could use to exploit as a vulnerability.

All posts on any forum application have a unique, linked ID. They have to have this or it would be impossible to find them. Finding things like that online relies intrinsically on them having been assigned unique url's. It's not a vulnerability at all. It's just another url like any of the billions of url's on the web.

I'm really not sure what you are hoping to achieve with your proposal.

I hope to achieve a user-friendly toggle between Flat View and Thread View similar to what was in use on another community, refugees of which I hope to attract now that that board has gone belly up. It was heavily used, and I was one of many who found use for it. WE have a use for it even if gamer types don't. And I'm no coder who can just dash off a few lines to make SMF work like this.

It helps with building a specific type of community (PBS Discussions Board people)...you know, like ANY other people who are used to using this feature elsewhere.

==============

Oh--and I sure could use an Ignore button right about now...

[Kindred]

oh, come on Live...   if one group says no, then why is there a problem asking another group?

However, I tend to agree with the refusal here.
SMF made a decision, ages ago, to avoid tree view for a number of reasons.

Tree view discussions are so....   umm.... last decade.


However, first and foremost, tree view threads discourage community participation. They result in multiple side conversations that essentially exclude others by their very nature.

Additionally, I have never had any use, whatsoever for Gri's form of "tracking"... and I don't see any use for it here, either. Post/response tagging would be more useful than a tree view, IMO (and I hate tagging as well, so that lets you know where tree-view sits, LOL)

[Clara Listensprechen]

Not sure why you're bringing up Gri in re: a feature used by another brand of boardware, and I'm sure that no gaming kid has any use for ANY feature useful in research.  But you're quite right--if that feature is not available here, i'll keep seeking out your competitors until I find it.  I would use the exact same boardware as PBS Dicussions used but for the fact that I didn't get that information before it disappeared. That you choose to specialize SMF to appeal only to kids/gamers is unfortunate.

Gri was not on the PBS Discussions board and bringing up Gri is off topic. This is not a matter of what YOU have a use for (nor is it a matter of any coder's personal prejudices against whomever is your scapegoat du jour, or in cases of a certain fork, misogyny)---this is a matter of what I and others like me--my fellow adults, a full demographic--have a use for.

==============================

AHA!!! I finally found a cache of one of the sections of the board in question. It's boardware by DCScripts.com, but it also appears that PBS modified it considerably, so a pristine copy of that isn't necessarily going to help. Their being out of business doesn't help either.

Screenshot of cache:

[Kindred]

excuse me... but I am not a kid or a gamer. I am a web professional and have been for longer than there has been a web... and I agree with the decision to avoid tree view.    That being said, you could ask for a mod. If it turns out to be popular it might be included in a future version... but almost definitely not the next version of smf.


BTW: Although I have a good grasp on what is actually usable, I admit that I also have bias toward certain styles of website. That being said...   unless one of the devs seriously agrees with you and decides to do it on his/her own - our target for enhancements are things which are frequently requested and/or popular features. In the last 6 years, I believe that I have seen a total of THREE requests for this (including yours)... which leads me to the conclusion that it is not as popular, even with that "full demographic" as you seem to think.

[Clara Listensprechen]

You presume that the full demographic visits SMF. The full demographic is user-only. Kid or not, an absence of prejudice would be nice...for starters.

[Antechinus]

I hope to achieve a user-friendly toggle between Flat View and Thread View similar to what was in use on another community, refugees of which I hope to attract now that that board has gone belly up. It was heavily used, and I was one of many who found use for it. WE have a use for it even if gamer types don't. And I'm no coder who can just dash off a few lines to make SMF work like this.

I think it would require rather more than just dashing off a few lines of code. TBH, offhand I'm not even sure how it would be organised. My initial reaction is that it would be a nightmare.

Mind you, I have to confess to loathing that sort of site. It's probably related to the fact that I'm fifty years old and don't play games. This means that whenever I see a site using that system I simply never bother participating in it at all, so I've never given a thought to how something like this would be done in practice.

Now I accept that other people may have other preferences and that's fine. However, we already have a list for enhancements to the next version and that list is already too long. We're trying to prune it to something reasonable at the moment so the next version doesn't take as long as the last one. Because of this, I would suggest that Kindred's advice is sound and you would be most likely to get the result you want in the least amount of time if you got someone to make it as a mod for you.

[Kindred]

because I disagree with your assumption - I am prejudiced?   Wow... way to call the kettle black, mrs pot.

As I said: I have been building, running and using forums since before the internet existed. I have always hated the tree view design.
Never-the-less, as I also said, it might be considered if there is enough support for it from other forum admins.

I presume nothing about your so called demographic.
See...  you represent one (or maybe a few) forum(s). Regardless of your users, you represent ONLY those forums. If enough OTHER ADMINS express an interest in this, we would probably re-think our assumptions... (since admins running smf are the demographic that we can measure here)
I also have to argue about your assumptions of your demographic, since at least one of the forums that I have run had an average age of 40+ and I never heard any complaints about the thread view or desire for tree view.
What I think is that your demographic is actually a very limited subset of users who used one specific (apparently heavily modified) forum software - and they just want others forums to be like the one they are used to...

[Clara Listensprechen]

Whatever.

Getting back to the topic, this is a feature that I and other PBS community people have a use for. Period. If this is not a feature to be had, I would like to hear from a genuine professional here if this would be better posed as a mod request.

...and there's a number of instances where an Ignore button would be handy. Thank you.

[青山 素子]

I know some code has been written for a tree view which gets 80% of the functionality. The problem is the other 20%, which would require a lot more code.

Of ask the forums I visit, I can't think of a single one that uses a tree view by default. The only sure I have seen use this style successfully is Slashdot.

[Kindred]

Wow...   You like to throw those insults, don't you?

Clara,
I am a genuine professional. I work in web development and have for years. I am a former support staffer, former project manager and current marketing coordinator. In addition, antechinus, one of the developers has indicated that he agrees with me....    This should be a mod request, because we have not seen enough evidence that it is a feature which we should spend time working on.

I suspect that You and other PBS people make up less than .01% of the user base of SMF. Which is not to say that you might not have a point... But in this case, it would seem that there is very little, if any, additional support for your request.

[青山 素子]

If a modification can be built and becomes very popular, and seems to fit the direction of SMF, I can't see why it wouldn't be considered for a feature in a future version. Modifications are excellent places to test different functionality before forcing the SMF development team to support the code.

I agree that a modification would be the best place to try out this functionality and see if it proves popular or not.

[Clara Listensprechen]

I know some code has been written for a tree view which gets 80% of the functionality. The problem is the other 20%, which would require a lot more code.

Of ask the forums I visit, I can't think of a single one that uses a tree view by default. The only sure I have seen use this style successfully is Slashdot.

Thank you greatly; I could kiss your feet for actual help on this, having "support" telling me that I don't want what I want and a bazillion reasons why they can't do this or that.  I love people with a can-do attitude who is actually receptive to suggestions.  I've been around too many mulberry bushes with people who just CAN'T.  MmmmmmWAAAH!

A screwdriver is obsolete technology, too, but a person in need of a screwdriver should be able to find a screwdriver when one needs one, obsolete technology or not.  You're the greatest! Commencing to check out Slashdot, hoping for better support (support is important; if being a coder one's self is a prerequisite for simply using SMF, then "SMF support" is an oxymoron).  And it wouldn't take much to get better than what I've experienced here so far.

Kindred, if Slashdot is a healthy operation, the question of popularity is answered. Face it--the coders here consider their world of "popularity" to exclude all  other worlds and demographics outside. It's clear that there's enough "popularity" to operate an industry on.

A professional isn't one who simply makes money by making stuff--a professional is a person who knows how to deal with customers. Such people HERE are extremely rare indeed.

[青山 素子]

Found the actual code. I'm not sure if it still works, or how the license would work. Also, there are several things (that last 20%) that it doesn't do. For example, it doesn't handle deleting posts that have children. That's a big problem, IMO.

The code is on an older feature request for a threaded view.

[Clara Listensprechen]

Found the actual code. I'm not sure if it still works, or how the license would work. Also, there are several things (that last 20%) that it doesn't do. For example, it doesn't handle deleting posts that have children. That's a big problem, IMO.

The code is on an older feature request for a threaded view.

Code writing is beyond me, but code modification I can handle. I LOVE YOU!!!!!

[Kindred]

well, as you can see from that thread, even though someone did code some of it, it's still not a popular request.

And on the subject of professionalism...

Actually, taking money for something is exactly what makes someone a professional. Regarding dealing with customers... I do it all day long... and I say the same sort of thing to them that I say to you (although I may be a little more blunt here).
Just because I disagree with you or tell you that we won't do what you are asking does not mean that I am wrong...  and often "NO" is the correct thing to tell a customer....