New SMF Interface - Next Generation?

[青山 素子]

Grudge, while I appreciate the efforts put in. Last I heard and saw, it fell a long way short of being good, decent code and from what I know from my stint, I don't see how that will change.

--- snip ---

It requires more then just saying, we plan to change it. It requires a new way of thinking about it, and with due respect to the people in charge of creating it, they don't have that mindset. I think the little piece of code above shows that...

Not to be completely rude, but you are not actively on the team here. You are not involved in the project anymore. While you may be able to speak with some authority on how things were handled, you certainly cannot speak on the current state or efforts of SMF as you have no knowledge of what is being done on the development edition.

Being able to deliver good code when we can is one of the major things we are working on for DE, and much work is being done in this regard to reduce the number of items that need to be worried about when displaying. Once done, it should lessen the effort needed to produce a good theme.



--- mini-rant ---

Seriously, with all this new interest in "semantic coding" I wonder how we ever got along for over 8 years without it. It must have been so difficult, not being semantic. Heck, look at search engines. If they do so well with semantic code, how did they ever manage AT ALL with FrontPage-induced crap and the braindumps of bad coders? It must have been impossible!

Seriously though, semantic coding is a good idea, but it isn't a new thing and it isn't "The One True Solution" to search engine rankings. Nothing ever is, and if you hear someone trying to market their idea as that, run. Proper solutions to complex problems usually involve more than one thing. Many people manage quite fine with the default theme, others not so well (and they are the ones who complain). There are more factors involved than code and the forum system you run.

Of course, that doesn't mean things can't be improved. They certainly will be in the Development Edition when it is released, and probably that will continue to happen even after.

--- end mini-rant ---

[Tim]

Oh, but I have seen some of the efforts that were put in and they fall a long way's short of what it should be. I'm not completely in the dark

And your "mini rant" says to me that you have no interest in lifting the standards of the HTML and CSS code. Semantical code shouldn't be done because it is in, or because of the search engines, it should be done because that's the way it is supposed to be done. The very fact that you don't consider it to be important says a lot about how little interest there is in the team to do things the right way.

And that is a sad, sad thing because SMF has always been a Ferrari engine stuck in a 2HP chassis. So, do rant on, the fact that you did so only underscores the fact that it is not going to change unless you're forced to.

So I will continue to push you, I will haunt you, I will track you down to the ends of the world and I will not rest untill this team improves an area of this program that is seriously lacking. Because it needs to be done someday. There's absolutely no arguement to be made why it shouldn't be done.

[Joshua Dickerson]

Semantic markup isn't something new. People using it and being adamant about it is. Especially with all of the new technologies coming out. Using better code only allows the web to achieve its true power. Using the standards makes it easier to adjust code. It makes it more usable. It makes it smaller (usually). It makes it parse faster. SEO is just another thing on that list.

Do you really think what we are moving to now isn't better than the Frontpage crap that we've dealt with for years?

[Tim]

And it isn't that dificult or hard or even impossible, in fact, I'm staring at it in another tab

[青山 素子]

And your "mini rant" says to me that you have no interest in lifting the standards of the HTML and CSS code. Semantical code shouldn't be done because it is in, or because of the search engines, it should be done because that's the way it is supposed to be done. The very fact that you don't consider it to be important says a lot about how little interest there is in the team to do things the right way.

Oh, I'm not saying I have no interest. I am simply saying that I dislike the hype around it. Everyone is concerned with this now because it is the "in thing" and "cool". It might be indeed, but what will happen once the hype dies down? Building clean, correct HTML should be done because it is a good practice. The fact that you didn't see what I was saying just tells me you didn't read my words. The fact that you say I am unconcerned about standardizing HTML and CSS (all my new sites that I code are pure-CSS layouts in XHTML with proper MIME-type) when I say in my little rant that it is a good thing just shows me you are being a troll right now.

So I will continue to push you, I will haunt you, I will track you down to the ends of the world and I will not rest untill this team improves an area of this program that is seriously lacking. Because it needs to be done someday. There's absolutely no arguement to be made why it shouldn't be done.

Wow. That sounds like a tiring job, but don't worry, it is being improved, and not because of you pushing. It is because it has been on the list for some time and there is finally time to do it right.

[Dannii]

I didn't know that there was any hype about semantical html, except, perhaps, that more people are finally realising that it actually works.

Motoko-chan, hasn't there always been time?

[NEMINI]

perhaps its time for all this staff/friend/ex-staff infighting to go private?  Not a very appealing thing for anyone wandering in from the outside to walk into.

[Thantos]

perhaps its time for all this staff/friend/ex-staff infighting to go private?  Not a very appealing thing for anyone wandering in from the outside to walk into.

I tend to agree.

So let me wrap this up by readdressing the OP's concerns:

but, there is only 1 thing tah never change since year ago... the interface... well, i wonder that SMF team might want to re-desing the interface for the default themes to be more interesting and beauty rather than current interface.

We are taking steps to improve the interface.  This includes the actual look, the html code, the css code, and even the PHP code.  Now as far as "beauty" is concerned I'd like to use the old adage "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."  While we are taking steps to "modernize" the look, we also realize that not everyone will end up liking it.  As such one of our main concerns, when making these changes, is making sure that theme authors can easily change them to fit with what they want to do.

Will the next version of SMF be the end all be all?  I can safely say, nope.  However it will be a step in the right direction.

[Amacythe]

perhaps its time for all this staff/friend/ex-staff infighting to go private?  Not a very appealing thing for anyone wandering in from the outside to walk into.

Thank you NEMINI.