[Gino1968]

In hxxp:www.mambojoe.com/content/view/250/43/ [nonactive] topic @mambojoe.com I saw no trace of a close cooperation between the developers of the MOS-SMF Bridge and Community Builder (CB).

1. Are there any plans to work together with the Community Builder's developers?
2. Shall it be possible to apply the (great) MOS-SMF Bridge in combination with Community Builder (CB RC2) in the (near) future? I guess it will be easier with the new plug-in system, not?
3. Shall the next Bridge have a new name? (e.g. JOS-SMF v3.20?)
4. When will the new version come out (estimation)?
5. Shall the new version of the bridge be distributed on mamboforge or Joomla Forge?
6. Is there a way to support Orstio's Bridge (Theodore Hildebrandt) for his (and kindred's) time, support, patience and work? By donation?

Thanks in advance,

[Orstio]

1. Are there any plans to work together with the Community Builder's developers?

In the past, I would have said possibly, but the next release of the bridge will be under the SMF license.  Add-on modules and bots will remain GPL, from what I can tell, though.  So, the answer now is "not likely".

2. Shall it be possible to apply the (great) MOS-SMF Bridge in combination with Community Builder (CB RC2) in the (near) future? I guess it will be easier with the new plug-in system, not?

3.19a works with CB.  It registers users into CB automatically if you select that option in your registration config.  It isn't as tightly bound to CB as some would like.

3. Shall the next Bridge have a new name? (e.g. JOS-SMF v3.20?)

I'm not certain about this one.  I do know that bridging Mambo will continue to be supported, so the name you suggested is not an option.

4. When will the new version come out (estimation)?

It will be released with SMF 1.1 RC2.  There were some small typos in SMF 1.1 RC1 that prevent the new bridge from functioning, so right now, only Charter Members would be able to use the latest bridge.

5. Shall the new version of the bridge be distributed on mamboforge or Joomla Forge?

Neither.  It will not be GPL, rather using the Simple Machines license, and be distributed here.

6. Is there a way to support Orstio's Bridge (Theodore Hildebrandt) for his (and kindred's) time, support, patience and work? By donation?

Well, for me, donations to SMF and Charter Memberships are always appreciated.

[Gino1968]

Thank you very much for your clear and fast answer.

I should visit simplemachines.org more often 

[rwbplano]

1. Are there any plans to work together with the Community Builder's developers?

In the past, I would have said possibly, but the next release of the bridge will be under the SMF license.  Add-on modules and bots will remain GPL, from what I can tell, though.  So, the answer now is "not likely".

Can you elaborate on the reasoning behind this? I find it hard to understand how a change in licensing would preclude the SMF bridge team from pursuing an integration strategy with Community Builder. The very nature of SMF is one of building community, and to not enthusiastically strive for integration with the most popular community building addon for Mambo/Joomla is perplexing to me.

2. Shall it be possible to apply the (great) MOS-SMF Bridge in combination with Community Builder (CB RC2) in the (near) future? I guess it will be easier with the new plug-in system, not?

3.19a works with CB.  It registers users into CB automatically if you select that option in your registration config.  It isn't as tightly bound to CB as some would like.

An answer to this question regarding "future" integration would be appreciated. Can we expect a more "tightly bound" solution down the road?

3. Shall the next Bridge have a new name? (e.g. JOS-SMF v3.20?)

I'm not certain about this one.  I do know that bridging Mambo will continue to be supported, so the name you suggested is not an option.

Am I to read into this that Joomla will not be supported in future versions of the bridge? Please clarify the position of SMF/Lewis Media with respect to future integration strategies.

4. When will the new version come out (estimation)?

It will be released with SMF 1.1 RC2.  There were some small typos in SMF 1.1 RC1 that prevent the new bridge from functioning, so right now, only Charter Members would be able to use the latest bridge.

Does the charter member version now contain the latest bridge? When will SMF 1.1 RC2 be available to the general public? Is there a licensing fee?




I have to say that the information contained in this thread as well as a few others recently has caused me some concern. I would respectfully ask that someone clarify the position of SMF/Lewis Media regarding future bridge direction in terms of licensing and platforms supported (i.e. Mambo vs. Joomla or both, as well as Community Builder.) I realize SMF is not open source, and that distinction carries a completely different set of expectations, but many people and organizations have made a significant investment of time and/or money in the technology provided here.

Orstio, I have been involved with your project from its earliest days and you know I have the highest respect for you and your contributions. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sensing that this project is undergoing a fundamental shift in scope. I'm not here to complain about that, it's your prerogative, but I believe the community deserves an explanation of where things are headed. If objectives are understood then one can make appropriate decisions.

Personally, I would like to see an SMF commitment to Joomla and CB RC2. Unfortunately, I'm sensing another strategy or direction from you and the SMF team. Unless this strategy involves an SMF branded CMS as I've seen mentioned as a possibility in the past, I can't understand why you wouldn't pursue a closer relationship with Joomla and particularly CB. Even so, casting aside the Joomla platform would seem to me a terrible mistake.

SMF is a wildly popular forum app, Joomla is using it, and CB is the foundation on which Joomla-based community sites are being built. Not to embrace these relationships leaves me scratching my head, not to mention the utter disappointment if this is actually the case. If CB is not part of the future direction of SMF an explanation as to why not would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Orstio, for taking time to read this and for any response you might have. I look forward to better understanding the position of SMF.

Kind regards...

[Kindred]

RWB...

I can't answer for Orstio, but I know the new bridge WILL support Joomla, but it will also continue to support Mambo...


So Orstio's comment about JOS-SMF being an inappropirate name makes complete sense.

[Orstio]

Can you elaborate on the reasoning behind this? I find it hard to understand how a change in licensing would preclude the SMF bridge team from pursuing an integration strategy with Community Builder. The very nature of SMF is one of building community, and to not enthusiastically strive for integration with the most popular community building addon for Mambo/Joomla is perplexing to me.

Good question.  I say not likely, because rather than spending time on integrating more Mambo/Joomla third party components, we are more likely to work on integrations with other CMS softwares, like Xoops, iGaming, PostNuke, etc.

An answer to this question regarding "future" integration would be appreciated. Can we expect a more "tightly bound" solution down the road?

Maybe, but I have no guarantees for it.

Am I to read into this that Joomla will not be supported in future versions of the bridge? Please clarify the position of SMF/Lewis Media with respect to future integration strategies.

I didn't mean to imply that a bridge for Joomla would not be supported.  Just that a bridge for Mambo would continue to be supported.  Simple Machine's position is neutral on the Mambo/Joomla situation, as far as I know.  I understand your concern, as many third party developers chose either one or the other.  That is not the case here.  As I said, I am spending time working on other CMS softwares as well.  There is no loyalty to any CMS in particular.

Does the charter member version now contain the latest bridge? When will SMF 1.1 RC2 be available to the general public? Is there a licensing fee?

I guess I phrased that a little clumsily.  The next bridge will be released at the same time as SMF 1.1 RC2.  It is not a part of the RC2 package.  Charter members are able to access it via CVS, I believe.  The Simple Machines license has no fee, other than the fact that you cannot remove or modify the copyright statement, and you cannot redistribute the code, even if you have modified it slightly.

Orstio, I have been involved with your project from its earliest days and you know I have the highest respect for you and your contributions. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sensing that this project is undergoing a fundamental shift in scope. I'm not here to complain about that, it's your prerogative, but I believe the community deserves an explanation of where things are headed. If objectives are understood then one can make appropriate decisions.

Thank you.    The project is undergoing a fundamental shift (or rather, already has).  Something that I and others on the Simple Machines team were quite concerned about was the fact that GPL integrations can turn very ugly.  It is quite easy for an unwitting developer to exchange security for functionality, for example, by changing a few lines of code and claim to have a better product, because it has a certain functionality for which people are asking.  Those security issues, if ever discovered, have the possibility to reflect poorly on SMF, or even on Mambo/Joomla.  This is better as a non-GPL project, so that will never be a concern.

There is also the fact that I have been developing the main core of the bridge on my own, with some coaching from [Unknown] to keep me heading in the right direction.  Now that the new bridge is in the hands of Simple Machines, it can be worked on as a true community project, with input from developers that are more experienced than I am. 

So, there's no need for any worry.  Mambo and Joomla (and a few others ) will continue to be bridged.  This change is definitely for the better.

[zimba]

don't spend to match time on integrating mambo, mambo is dead.
long live joomla!

[rwbplano]

Good question.  I say not likely, because rather than spending time on integrating more Mambo/Joomla third party components, we are more likely to work on integrations with other CMS softwares, like Xoops, iGaming, PostNuke, etc.

I can appreciate wanting to extend the integration strategy in as many directions as possible, but to leave Community Builder out of the picture doesn't make sense to me. A Joomla-based community site will almost certainly use CB. If current commitments are stretching your team, I'd like to offer a suggestion that you recruit someone to lead a CB integration project. I know I speak for many others who would like to see this happen. You could post an announcement here and at the Joomla and CB forums for this. Additionally, you could stipulate a licensing model that is consistent with Simple Machines objectives.

Thank you.    The project is undergoing a fundamental shift (or rather, already has).  Something that I and others on the Simple Machines team were quite concerned about was the fact that GPL integrations can turn very ugly.  It is quite easy for an unwitting developer to exchange security for functionality, for example, by changing a few lines of code and claim to have a better product, because it has a certain functionality for which people are asking.  Those security issues, if ever discovered, have the possibility to reflect poorly on SMF, or even on Mambo/Joomla.  This is better as a non-GPL project, so that will never be a concern.

There is also the fact that I have been developing the main core of the bridge on my own, with some coaching from [Unknown] to keep me heading in the right direction.  Now that the new bridge is in the hands of Simple Machines, it can be worked on as a true community project, with input from developers that are more experienced than I am. 

So, there's no need for any worry.  Mambo and Joomla (and a few others ) will continue to be bridged.  This change is definitely for the better.

I can read between the lines here and understand completely your concern for protecting intellectual property as well as providing a secure product. Since you've stated an ongoing commitment to Joomla, would it be possible for Simple Machines to publish an updated bridge before 1.1 RC2 is released that incorporates the many hacks and workarounds posted here in the forum? This would provide for a much smoother transition as upgrades are released and certainly ease the pain of many as evidenced by the numerous support questions posted here and at the Joomla forums.

Lastly, let me again offer my enthusiastic recommendation that Simple Machines establish a relationship with the Community Builder team. I believe this would serve you well as integration with CB would certainly expose SMF to a quite substantial and very receptive audience.

Thank you very much for your time and replies.

[Kindred]

Well, on one note, I will disagree....

I run 3 communities that use mambo (soon to be Joomla) and SMF....      and in none of them have I (or the other management) ever had the desire for Community Builder.

Hoestly, I'd rather work on modifying the SMF Profile page to incporate more information.

[mgrds]

don't spend to match time on integrating mambo, mambo is dead.
long live joomla!

I'm sorry - I don't think this kind of comment is at all helpful - or reflects well on those of us who have chosen to use Joomla.
Mambo will continue to be an excellent CMS - and as Orstio has said he intends to support the widest range of integrations to different products.
The Joomla developers are not taking this kind of attitude and despite some of their struggles with the Mambo Foundation have continued to be supportive and helpful and positive towards Mambo users and those of the community who continue to use Mambo. 
It is to Orstios' credit he has the same attitude - and I don't see how your comment helps anyone at all!

[rwbplano]

Well, on one note, I will disagree....

I run 3 communities that use mambo (soon to be Joomla) and SMF....      and in none of them have I (or the other management) ever had the desire for Community Builder.

Hoestly, I'd rather work on modifying the SMF Profile page to incporate more information.

Not everyone will want or need CB integration but I can assure you this is of great interest to many.

Kindred, I recall in another post of yours the advantages of using the Mambo/Joomla menu structure to truly integrate SMF into the overall design of a website. I fully agree. I also believe this philosophy should be applied to incorporate all community features (i.e. forums, galleries, newsletters, messaging, etc.)  into a logical, stylistically consistent design. For a Joomla-based website, this is what Community Builder is designed to do. Although I agree the current incarnation of CB is somewhat clumsy, the RC2 release promises to feature a much cleaner interface and flexible API.

Anyway, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here with my CB campaign.  Perhaps there will be newfound interest once RC2 is released. I appreciate your feedback, Kindred.

[gsbe]

No dead horses here, CB is critical for community-focused Joomla / Mambo sites! The importance of CB integration will continue to escalate as one of the most powerful reasons for the popularity of addon scripts.

I'd like to see SMF integrated with CB in a similar way to Simpleboard (Joomlaboard) and the new version of YaNC.

IMHO, a full CB integration keeps the integrated addon in the background. This lets you continue to use CB for the registration process and adds any of the addon's preferences and info to your CB profile. Does anyone know if this could be a possible direction for SMF? If not the long-term popularity of SMF will suffer within the Joomla / Mambo community.

[rpmilius]

I run a small community site and I depend on Mambo, Community Builder, Gallery2, and SMF working well together. Each of these packages have unique features that the others don't.

Right now I add users by hand (it's a small site). First I add a user via Community Builder, adding the personal information to each of the fields I created. Some information uses can change, some they can't (and shouldn't).  Then I run mos2smfusers.php to squirt the info into SMF. Then I have to go into admin mode in SMF and add the creation date, assign a group, and hide the email from public. Kinda of a clumsy process, but it works for me so far. At some point I'll let users register themselves, but I haven't worked out the best process that would work well for my site yet.

It's not all perfect tho... I have a lot of concerns about managing the integration. Community Builder is very important to me. There are several forum platforms I can choose from, including SMF, Simpleboard, and vBulletin. I like the management power of SMF and the support is great. Simpleboard is ok, but isn't very mature and support seems spotty. vBulletin is cool, but costs $$. I think both Simpleboard and vBulletin have said they will support the CB plugin feature being developed. I'd prefer not to have to pay for a forum, but it means having a cleaner integration, I will.

-Bob

Mambo 4.5.2
CB RC1
SMF 1.1 RC1
Gallery2 RC1

[Orstio]

I run a small community site and I depend on Mambo, Community Builder, Gallery2, and SMF working well together. Each of these packages have unique features that the others don't.

I disagree somewhat.

Fields can easily be added to SMF to make CB completely useless on a bridged site.

See more in [Unknown]'s tutorial:

http://www.unknownbrackets.com/tutorials/custom-profile

Using that method, I fail to see what CB can do that SMF cannot.

[rpmilius]

Community Builder does more than just add more fields for each user.

It has a nifty tabs and filtered/sorted lists, with a nice amount of control of what information gets displayed, in what order, for different groups and the plugin architecture planned for RC2 will have hooks for displaying information from other modules/components for each user (eg blog, gallery, etc). The interface in CB lets me control the information and how it's display with a lot of flexibility and with a user interface that's much more inviting than hacking SMF.

The tutorial you pointed for adding fields in SMF does just that, but that's all. As far as I can tell, if I want to do the kinds of things that CB does, I would need to write my own PHP and mySQL code to do that. CB takes the pain out of a lot of that.

-bob

[rwbplano]

Using that method, I fail to see what CB can do that SMF cannot.

Have you even looked at Community Builder, Orstio? Of course, I'm kidding (well, mostly.) I apologize for the sarcasm but the comments from both you and Kindred reflect either a complete ingorance of CB or a point-of-view so SMF-centric you fail to fully recognize the enormous benefit it brings to Joomla community websites.

I'm finding it increasingly frustrating to continually make the case for SMF/CB integration when I don't believe the developers here really understand CB, or are so hell-bent on an SMF only philosophy that any true integration is out of the question. I've nearly abandoned any hope of seeing this happen and have reluctantly begun exploring alternative forum solutions for three projects that require CB. I say reluctant because I think SMF is a very solid product, and the SMF community is comprised of many nice people. Also, for reasons you mentioned before, I too prefer a Simple Machines engineered integration solution, as opposed to third party options. It really is unfortunate that the SMF development team has taken this stance.

I urge you to take another look at Community Builder and reconsider your position with respect to future development objectives. Wait for the release of CB RC2 if you'd like. I'd be happy to provide a more illustrative case as to why CB is much more than a few SMF custom fields cobbled together, but at this point I'm afraid it would just fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes as it were.) Please prove me wrong.

Best regards...

[ptvideo]

I have recently moved from phpbb to SMF, but if I was read this topics first, I think that I have think a little more. Community Builder is very, very important to me (My site is essentially a directory of profissional contacts). And, if I can't get, in the near future (as I now belive) a good integration withthe forum, I will certainty change the forum again.

SMF is a great software, but please don't ignore CB, it's a very important component to many Joomla users.

[jbmix]

Quite disappointing for this newcomer to find, as well, I must say.

I was so hopeful that this would be the perfect solution, but then I find this topic...
jb

[chadness]

Orstio just said it's not his priority.  I'm sure it will happen, once someone with that magical trifecta of want, ability, and time is interested.   

[rlhenson]

Well I to am taking a serious look at other solutions. The apparent close mindedness on this subject is very disturbing. After looking at the list of developer support at http://www.mambojoe.com/content/view/250/43/ [nofollow] I think that I will be taking a closer look at phpBB or VBulletin. It is not something that I relish as I really like SMF but if I don't see some kind of support or at least a little open mindedness here then I will be moving on.

Just my 2 cents,

Rick