Sloppiest "Release" Version Ever?

[kaety]

SMF 2.0 wasnt worth the wait!

Honestly as someone who waited for a proper (not beta) release of SMF for a year.

This client has been using SMF 1.0 versions for a couple of years with no problems
Now however, I am terribly dissapointed in the lack of support and general documentation for styling the new forum.

The software is fine, there is however NO support documentation and on the forum there is little real help offered. I have seen sarcasm from moderators and very few answers.
I am experienced in upgrades, CSS, HTML, php etc however I do not need to edit SMF daily if even weekly.


It is not as simple as replacing some css it means a complete rewrite and in my case is costing me a fortune. (Not being paid by the client to rewrite all the styles) there was no warning on the final release that it may break your CSS and I did read the documentation first. 


I administer over 100 sites over 15 yrs using lots of platforms, but this is the worst platform upgrade/migration with the least Documentation I have ever seen, How can you say that it is suitable for release when the Wiki is not updated to include the new styling/code.

Sorely dissapointed and I would like to know who should I send the invoice to for the immense waste of time I have been put through??

Kaety

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Support documentation:

- http://wiki.simplemachines.org/

What exactly do you feel should be there, but isn't? Something that was available for previous versions specifically...?

Major releases such as 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 have never been fully compatible with each other, and you can not realistically expect them to be either.
When ever upgrading is the topic of discussion, it is mentioned that older themes will not work, and mods will not be carried over from the previous version.


This package is provided "as is" and without any warranty. Any express or implied warranties, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose are disclaimed. In no event shall the authors be liable to any party for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, exemplary, or consequential damages arising in any way out of the use or misuse of this package.

[rishab555555]

SMF 2.0 wasnt worth !

The software is fine, there is however NO support documentation and on the forum there is little real help offered. I have seen sarcasm from moderators and very few answers.

I completely agree with kaety as i am also facing problems in my SMF and i have found the support of SMF team very much degraded....If we leave one or two , no one even cares to respond....

And when the matter comes about moderators and staff....I must say they are being soo rude right now. The way they speak to us is so stiff that i feel like they are made of iron or some hard metal ......

I am facing two much problem and now i  am moving from SMF (which i loved always) to Wordpress + another forum platform....

Sad:(

[MrGrumpy]

It is not as simple as replacing some css it means a complete rewrite and in my case is costing me a fortune. (Not being paid by the client to rewrite all the styles)

How is updating clients sites and not getting paid for doing so SMF's fault...

The fact that upgrading, even between 2.0 versions never mind from 1.1.x to 2.0, removes mods and themes has been well discussed many times and common sense tells you really that a completely new version with new coding, new features and new design that older themes, mods and custom edits won't work, if they did then the new version wouldn't really that much of an advancement if any older stuff would just work perfect on it and if it did so then what would of been the point of making a new version if it just done the same as an older version.

Seems to me you are just a bit pissed off that you have to do some work and venting at smf and blaming it all on them and being unrealistic expecting an upgrade to update all your themes, mods and custom edits. You say you have used many platforms over many years so surely you would of come across this situation before where a completely new version of a software doesn't convert all older stuff to the new version.

It's like saying to the DVD manufacturers how come my VHS videos weren't automatically updated to DVD's when I brought a DVD player.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

And when the matter comes about moderators and staff....I must say they are being soo rude right now. The way they speak to us is so stiff that i feel like they are made of iron or some hard metal ......

I am facing two much problem and now i  am moving from SMF (which i loved always) to Wordpress + another forum platform....

Sad:(

I am sorry if you feel this way, but honestly - moderation, and specially the actions of one moderator specifically, have nothing to do with this topic,
and would be better handled elsewhere. If you are having trouble with the support team, or someone on the support team, feel free to approach me or JimM about it,
but this topic is not the place to do it IMO.

[Kindred]

ok.... so if I get this straight...

You support (for pay) a site which was running 1.1.x.
You (or your client) decided to upgrade them to 2.0.
Now you are complaining because YOU did not investigate what was involved in the upgrade (i.e. new coding, new themes, new mods) sufficiently to provide your client with a proper quote...

First of all...  1.1.x is still supported and distributed, so upgrading is a matter of choice, not requirement.

second... the wiki does correctly cover 2.0 documentation. Not sure what pages you are looking at which you think do not... but if you point them out, we'll check and be sure to update them if they need updating. However just saying that there is "NO support documentation" is blatantly false... and useless, since if people don't point out what is specifically missing, we can not work to get it included (if it is actually even missing).

third... as has already been pointed out. 2.0 is a major rewrite. We've always said this. There are several HUNDRED topics that indicate that themes, mods, etc for 1.1.x will not work with 2.0 (and this has been stated since the beta versions, let alone the RC versions and final). As mean as it sounds: Your lack of preparation is not our responsibility.
You are absolutely correct...   it is not just a matter of replacing some CSS. It is, as I have said, a MAJOR UPGRADE, which involved recoding nearly everything. (as will be the upgrade to 3.0, etc and so on)


fourth... regarding the support on the forums here... Kaety - you have 16 posts of which **ONLY ONE** mentions any question regarding upgrading to 2.0. You posted that ONE in the announcement thread...
From that ONE POST, you suddenly go into complaint mode about how poor the release, documentation and support it. After ONE POST?

finally...don't cross-post/double-post or it will be marked as spam.
additionally, the other thread you posted this same rant in was discussing upgrading from 2.0 RC5 to 2.0 final - not 1.1.x to 2.0. I have removed your other post as duplicate and non-relevant content.

[Douglas]

You know... I was going to reply in my typical fashion, but once again, Kindred beat me to it, rather eloquently and with style and grace.

So I'll just have to avoid being a Denizen Derriere Vacuity and simply state "YEAH!  WHAT HE SAID" and be okay with it... so...

YEAH!  WHAT KINDRED SAID.

Seriously... 2.x is a *very* significant upgrade over the 1.x branch.

Then again, so was Windows 95 over Windows 3.x, and XP over 95/98.

So was a 2000's Mini cooper over a 70's cooper.

(See where I'm going with this?)

A little research ahead of time will save you a LOT of aggravation later.

[bloc]

But he is partly right.

This have been discussed before,the 2.0 default theme is very sensitive to changes in the CSS. It should have been built more robust, especially since its so based on CSS only. So while 2.0 is more complex than 1.1 its also less stable in this regard.

Other than that I agreed that users can't blame SMF for they own lack of research into what it actually requires.

[feline]

Kindred ... 1+ ... sit down 

[catfished]

I have two SMF 1.x forums and love them. I decided to install a 2.0 test forum to play with. I wanted to see what I would experience when I'm finally forced to upgrade. I found the 2.0 admin panel totally confusing. It's even worse than PhpBB's. I have been trying to put a simple link in an image in the header but find it impossible so far even though I can do it with my eyes closed in 1.x. So far no one in the charter member section can resolve this. There is one support person doing his darndest to help out but even he's running into problems with the coding in this area. I don't know anything about coding except a tiny bit of HTML but just trying to do this simple change, I'm thinking the new coding is very difficult to mess with. I have a hunch that a lot of what kaety is saying has some merit if my experiences are examples of what we have to deal with.

[Tapsa2]

I found the 2.0 admin panel totally confusing.

I agree on this one. The Admin panel is a mess. It looks "pretty" with all those dropdown menus, but it's very hard to find anything, when you don't see the whole "linktree" at once.

[Kindred]

I, on the other hand, disagree.   I find the plain menu heading with drop downs to be much more organized.

As for coding an item into the header.... That has nothingness to do wi the interface, since you have to actually modify the code to do what you are saying.

[catfished]

As for coding an item into the header.... That has nothingness to do wi the interface, since you have to actually modify the code to do what you are saying.

I don't understand how any of this stuff works but I do know that using 1.x I could change a lot of little things easily whereas with 2.0 they seem to be impossible.

[Illori]

if you click the << on the right side you will get the traditional menu on the left side back and see what you think of 2.0 then.

[ApplianceJunk]

We run SMF 1.1.x for years. Never had a problem upgrading it all the way to 1.1.14
I kept a eye on SMF 2.0 until it was finished and then watched the mods we wanted to use until they where upgraded to work with SMF 2.0.

Then before upgrading I tested everything on a local machine before deciding if I wanted to go live with SMF 2.0

After seeing how good it all worked I submitted a support ticket to have one of the SMF team experts do the upgrade on our live site for us.

I have been extremely happy with SMF and the support forums from day one and I think SMF 2.0 is awesome.

[Antechinus]

I have been trying to put a simple link in an image in the header but find it impossible so far even though I can do it with my eyes closed in 1.x. So far no one in the charter member section can resolve this.

Just saw this. Replied in your CM thread with a solution.

[catfished]

We run SMF 1.1.x for years. Never had a problem upgrading it all the way to 1.1.14
I kept a eye on SMF 2.0 until it was finished and then watched the mods we wanted to use until they where upgraded to work with SMF 2.0.

Then before upgrading I tested everything on a local machine before deciding if I wanted to go live with SMF 2.0

That's what I'm doing, I'm trying to make things work on a test forum that I've installed. The interesting thing is that back when 1.0 was just a beta, it was easy to upgrade. Even idiots like me could do it easily right up to and including 1.0 gold but this 2.o gold is impossible.

[catfished]

Just saw this. Replied in your CM thread with a solution.

Thanks, I saw your post on there. I'll try it a bit later when I get some more time.

[Oldiesmann]

We run SMF 1.1.x for years. Never had a problem upgrading it all the way to 1.1.14
I kept a eye on SMF 2.0 until it was finished and then watched the mods we wanted to use until they where upgraded to work with SMF 2.0.

Then before upgrading I tested everything on a local machine before deciding if I wanted to go live with SMF 2.0

That's what I'm doing, I'm trying to make things work on a test forum that I've installed. The interesting thing is that back when 1.0 was just a beta, it was easy to upgrade. Even idiots like me could do it easily right up to and including 1.0 gold but this 2.o gold is impossible.

Sorry you're having so much trouble finding your way around. I personally love 2.0 and the new menu system, but as others have said, you can go back to the side menus if you don't like it.

If you're having trouble finding things, the admin center has the ability to search for settings - enter something in the "Quick Search" box and choose "Task/Setting" from the drop down list, then click "Go". This is a great way to find things without spending a long time digging through the various menus.

It does take a while to get used to the drop down menus, but once you do get used to them, it's fairly easy to find stuff.

[Kindred]

I upgraded a forum with over 2 million posts to 2.0 with no problems at all...
Uploaded the new files, ran upgrade.php, installed mods - done...

If you are criticizing the lack of a package update, Upgrading major releases has always required an full file update (1.0 to 1.1 did, as well)