Can I have different Board level permissions for Old members and New members

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

It really does not matter if your users already have some other groups, all that warning is talking about is the effects on that specific group. Nothing changes regarding other groups.

The choices are:
Visible, shown in user profile (if set as primary), in the mini profile next to posts (if set as primary) and in the group key on index. Means group membership is basically public.

Visible, except group key, is exactly as the previous option minus the group key.

Hidden, not shown in profile, not shown next to posts, not included in the group key, ever. Basically a private club. That's it.
This should always default to being hidden, even if mass added to users blindly.

And believe me, when I say that's what you want, it really is what you want IF you want to do what I suggested.

Hmm, well either I'm Completely 'Missing' something or I have perhaps Not described my requirement Correctly but having now tried adding Members via the Box in the Lower right, 'Singularly' or by Comma delimited lists, it Adds the New "Older Members" Membergroup as their 'Primary Membergroup' and that is NOT what I wish to acheive.

If you edit the membergroup, and make visibility "invisible", it should stop that from happening and make it default to a secondary group.

[stoo23]

Hmmm OK,.. I'll have a further Play around      and get back to you 

OK. As far as I can figure out, it would appear to be No Different as far as the Display next to posts.

You cannot view this attachment.  You cannot view this attachment.  You cannot view this attachment.

Left to Right;
Group Set via Primary & Visible | Group Set via Primary & Invisible | No Primary group Set via Additional Visible

As far as I can tell from testing, When visible, the New Group, can be Selected via either the Primary Group Drop Box OR via the Additional groups check boxes.

When selecting Invisible, it removes the New Group from the list in the Primary Drop Box and assigns the New group by Automatically selecting the appropriate Check Box in the additional group list.

TBH  I'm not experienced enough to completely 'Grok' the fullness of the difference, as I am unsure Where the Member Would ever See the New group they have been Assigned, Unless it is Done by the Primary member selection and it was set as Visible.

Unless I am missing something, Primary and Invisible, appears to present the same to the User, as additional and Visible.

Please understand I'm NOT arguing or disagreeing, just not sure what the Subtlety of the difference is 

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Are you serious? I just explained the difference. An invisible group CAN NOT BE MADE VISIBLE, meaning you will not end up with users showing the "Old members group" title, no matter how you add it. THAT is the difference, as shown in your attachments. This allows you to use the moderation center to add multiple users at once, without risking anyone getting new public titles.

Normally, A Primary group = A visible group, A Secondary group = A Hidden group.
But an invisible group is ALWAYS hidden.

[stoo23]

Gee OK,.. thanks, but hey, I have been using SMF Since June this year when I took over trying to run and update a couple of forums run by a friend who passed away in May after updating SMF & reconfiguring and fixing the server setups etc, and am only now trying to do something vaguely clever.

I am a Noob to SMF and still learning and, as further explained in my Edited post above am simply trying to learn and understand the subtle differences between doing it either way.
Only Now after your Statement do I fully appreciate the previous advice regarding the facility of being able to add the members in Bulk.
Pardon my Slowness !!

It's Late, I'm not well and it's been a Long day and I have more pressing matters to be concerned with,.. like I said, I was simply trying to be a bit clever and quite simply, did not fully understand your advice.

Thank you for your help,.. 

You know, perhaps I'm Not the Only person who does not fully understand the subtle difference and simply figured my posts and images might help 'descriptively'.

In closing, may I add that the forum I am administering is for assembler programmers and we have a section Specifically for Newcomers to assembler, called the Campus, where New members that are learning are Expected to be treated appropriately.
Your recent response to me,

Are you serious? I just explained the difference

, would probably have had me reprimanding you (as a vastly experienced user), for being 'Brief' or 'Turse', with a newcomer, who is still trying to learn  the 'ins & outs of SMF
Not Everyone understands the intrinsic Logic Instantly.

Hopefully, I will Not annoy you further in the future. 

Regards,
Stewart

I will Mark this tread as SOLVED

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

I'm sorry, but when I've outlined the same thing three times in 3 different ways, and told you it does exactly what you need, and you still seem to feel the need to doubt it - I get annoyed. Can't help it. But I do hope I managed to explain the difference in the end, and that you get things sorted.

The different membergroup related settings, and their explanations can be found in the online manual as well if you need a reference while testing https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/SMF2.0:Membergroups ( 2.1 Work in Progress: https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/SMF2.1:Membergroups )

[stoo23]

you still seem to feel the need to doubt it

You obviously misunderstood, I was NOT Doubting it, simply trying to Fully understand the difference.
cheers
 

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Then I apologize, but that is how it came across a couple of times in this topic. I offered a solution, which you didn't want to just accept, but didn't really explain why that is.

[Kindred]

So, actually, I forgot about the invisible option --- but it solves your problem.

1- create the group (but do not make it invisible)
2- use the mass-assignment to put all of the users into the group.
2a- all of your users in the group will now have that group as a primary group.  Since you don't use primary groups for anything else, there is no problem with this....
3- CHANGE the group to invisible....   per the instructions, this will AUTOMATICALLY move everyone's group assignment to a SECONDARY group --   which is not visible unless you have a mod to display secondary groups.




and secondary groups are very purposefully NEVER DISPLAYED to anyone except the admins.  The USER doesn't have to KNOW that they are in that group -- although, if you base permissions on that group, the user can probably figure out that they belong to the "older members" group when they see access to an "older members only" board.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

It should work either way I believe, invisible from the start or switched to invisible after the fact, the end result should be the same. I haven't tested this too thoroughly though.

[Kindred]

yes -- but the advantage of switching it is that it allows you to mass-assign people to the group as a primary group.

[stoo23]

Well, just to Maintain my consistent level of stupidity (along with the extremely capable assembly language programmer helping me,.. neither of us can See Any way of 'Simply' selecting and Bulk Adding Members from My Post Count groups, to my Special New group, Primary, additional, visible or invisible.

Perhaps sometimes a Picture might be Worth a thousand words.

We have written a Plug-in for the MASM32 SDK qEditor to collect, collate and comma delimit the users to add them and that works 

I offered a solution, which you didn't want to just accept, but didn't really explain why that is.

May I respectfully suggest you are reading that the way you wish to.
I quite simply could Not Simply 'Accept' your solution, as I could not See or understand the real Exact difference to the methodology I had already enacted upon.

Plus, in life I believe caution and self proven Facts are a far worthier and safer option than blindly accepting some advice as Absolute fact,, in the first instance.

BUT as suggested, I was not arguing or disagreeing and once again, I thank you all for your assistance in the matter.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

I quite simply could Not Simply 'Accept' your solution, as I could not See or understand the real Exact difference to the methodology I had already enacted upon.

That may very well be because there was none to find - I told you where to add multiple members at a time, you tried that and told me it added the group as a visible title to the members and that is not wanted. I then told you what to change to stop that from happening, and then we basically started going around in circles because you didn't believe this solution to lead to your desired outcome.

[Kindred]

Adding Members from My Post Count groups, to my Special New group, Primary, additional, visible or invisible.

that's not what you asked for....

You asked for a way to bulk add members...  there is no way to bulk add members from one group to another - especially not post-count groups which are automatically assigned based on post-count and not direct assignment.
... but we DID both tell you the way to bulk add members into your new group from that new group's moderation page -- and then told you how to make that new group not-visible to normal users.


As a note, however -- sometimes, experts do tell you something, you should be willing to accept what you are told - especially when multiple experts are saying the same thing. After all, you can't become an expert and/or trial EVERYTHING yourself.   Do you try to get a home virology kit to test the efficiency of a vaccine?
(Yes, that's an extreme example, but it proves the point).   Although you can BECOME an expert in the forum system -- accepting advice and statements from already experts frees up your time and energy to learn other things.

[stoo23]

Well, whilst Not wanting to get into or continue any form of argument,... whilst my initial post may Not have expressly suggested the scenario I have 'at hand'.
I began my explanation in my post #2 and then set out Quite clearly I believe exactly What I was trying to do and why and included screen grabs showing the current (and created) situation.

In my post #13, I clearly suggest I wanted to add the existing members in the Post Count groups (that have existed for years) into my New 'older member' group, simply to maintain their access to the 2 x old boards.

With new members eventually advancing in the post count groups, disabling the access there seemed appropriate and Worked.

It was just simply a finite misunderstanding of the effects of the visible/invisible setting I initially did not 'get' and I don't know what or why your suggestions re; Bulk adding of members should differ for my install, but it does Not appear as simple as you have suggested.
Never did it show or allow me to see and select members from my Post count groups to bulk add them to my new group and maybe it won't and I would suggest therein lies the basic issue. A simple misunderstanding.

I never even remotely suggested I did Not believe any of you and am very sorry if that is how you perceived my comments.

I'm NOT a complete Idiot or Ratbag and am happy to accept that maybe I didn't initially get some things and evidently Still Don't, but I honestly believe I have been and remained pleasant and civil, even if perhaps annoying to yourselves.

I don't want this to get ugly or continue and am more than happy to leave this where it is,.. We have 'Sorted' what We/I need to do, once again most appreciatively, with your help, so no need to keep 'kicking' a dead horse.

Thanks once again.
regards,
Stewart

Feel free to head on over and have a peek if you wish masm32 dot com  and hey, if you fancy learnng assembler, well this is where the MASM32 SDK was created    Cheers

[Illori]

you cannot add members to post count groups manually the only type of group you can add users to manually are the primary and secondary groups.

[Kindred]

And we never said that you can add members from one group into another.  I literally said that you can not do that.

You CAN bulk add members into the NEW group by username in the moderation/board settings

[Sesquipedalian]

I don't want this to get ugly or continue and am more than happy to leave this where it is,.. We have 'Sorted' what We/I need to do, once again most appreciatively, with your help, so no need to keep 'kicking' a dead horse.

Thanks once again.

Glad to hear that it is all worked out.

[stoo23]

Oh dear,.. OK

you cannot add members to post count groups manually

I know & I wasn't trying to !!

the only type of group you can add users to manually are the primary and secondary groups.

Yep I also know and realize that !!

And we never said that you can add members from one group into another.  I literally said that you can not do that.

ALSO OK &  understood Now, BUT, I NEVER intimated that you DId say that !!

You CAN bulk add members into the NEW group by username in the moderation/board settings

Also OK, & understood.

After creating the ASM Plug-in for the MASM SDK editor, it was an almost instantaneous process and has been done.

SERIOUSLY Guys, I am completely happy, what I wanted to try and achieve has been done, I have NO 'Bones to Pick' with Anyone here, nor am I in any way angry or accusing ANY of you of saying or doing Anything untoward but Sadly, you guys don't seem to be happy or finished with myself.

Like I have said innumerable times here and in Other threads, I have fully appreciated both your Prompt and helpful replies to all of my queries !!

ALL I can do, is apologize again, for seemingly causing some of you such Angst.

Sorry, it is ALL good here and seriously hope it is there !!
Can we move on in 'Neutral' mode now and for the future ??

Thank you 'Sesquipedalian', I believe it has 

Once again, thanking you in advance.
Regards, Stewart 

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

All good, but for the future ... it is completely fine, advisable even, to strive to understand what you are doing and why, especially when following the instructions someone else gave you. I can not blame you for that. But perhaps next time, consider simply asking the person giving the advice to explain further what the steps accomplish, if you do not understand.
What made me so annoyed, and I do apologize for showing it so clearly, is that your screenshots while testing actually proved my advice correct.