Stolen Code (Was Re: Objectionable Customizations)

[SoLoGHoST]

Sounds good to me.  And one thing I'd like to add also, is, if a mod author wants to redistribute a mod that is exactly the same as someone else's mod to attempt to contact the person first and see if this is OK.  Ofcourse, reading the license agreement and adhering to it should be enforced (if they are planning on using any code from someone else's mod).  However, if they are creating their own mod with their own code, than it's just polite to attempt to contact the person who originally created that specific mod and ask if they would have any objections to creating their mod (which is the same thing, but with their code).  Well, atleast this is just polite and respectful IMO.

[Nao 尚]

Is this really happening right now in SMF's mod community? People who use other people's code without their consent?

[Arantor]

Nao, yes it is happening. We have recently removed a number of mods from the mod site where this was happening.

The specific case that SoLoGHoST refers to, though, is where a mod had been given away by one person to another, then the other submitted it to another site (since mods don't have to be explicitly on the mod site if the author/maintainer wants to have it elsewhere too)

[Sorck]

Nao, yes it is happening. We have recently removed a number of mods from the mod site where this was happening.

Were these cases where large amounts of code had been used (about 30%+ other mod code) or small amounts od script (<5% other mod code)?

[Arantor]

In some cases, nearer to 85% reuse of other people's code.

There's no hard and fast rule; we don't sit and count the lines and say... that's above 10% or whatever. Sometimes there's only one way to do something so that's what is used.

[Dannii]

If mods in the customisation site were required to be released under a real OS licence there wouldn't be a problem...

[Arantor]

Can't happen unless SMF itself goes to a true FOSS license as well, but yes, you're right.

[Nao 尚]

Nao, yes it is happening. We have recently removed a number of mods from the mod site where this was happening.

Yikes!

The specific case that SoLoGHoST refers to, though, is where a mod had been given away by one person to another, then the other submitted it to another site (since mods don't have to be explicitly on the mod site if the author/maintainer wants to have it elsewhere too)

What do you mean 'another site'?

Anyway, I don't see the point in taking someone else's code. If only for pride! I would be ashamed forever if I took someone else's work and credited it as mine.

[Arantor]

OK, time to come clean about this other case.

I gave a mod away. I still have too many as it is. Anyway the new owner of one of my mods is a regular on another site that does all kinds of things, including development and publication of mods. They wanted to put the mod I gave them on that other site. As it happens, they didn't ask me first, but the owner of the site did. (In any case, I'd given the mod away for them to do as they pleased)

[SoLoGHoST]

Nao, yes it is happening. We have recently removed a number of mods from the mod site where this was happening.

The specific case that SoLoGHoST refers to, though, is where a mod had been given away by one person to another, then the other submitted it to another site (since mods don't have to be explicitly on the mod site if the author/maintainer wants to have it elsewhere too)

Actually, this is not what I'm referring to Arantor, though what you are saying is mandatory, IMO!

Here we go again... 

If people create a mod and post it up on the mod site, and someone wants to make a mod exactly like it (either paid or free), they should attempt to contact the mod author (especially if they are using any code from that mod), unless their is a license attached to the mod that specifically states that you are not allowed to modify and redistribute this mod, and in that case you shouldn't modify it and redistribute it (either paid or free, but especially PAID).  If you are making a mod that functions exactly the same as another mod functions, than letting the other mod author know of this would be polite and respectful.  HERE's an example of this:  Search Focus DropDown Request at GM, now if I wanted to modify this for that person, I should contact the MOD Author and ask them if that would be ok with them before I go making this compatible with RC2 (which it already says it is) and redistributing it (either privately and/or publicly).  Also, on the opposite side of this, if I wanted to create a mod that does exactly the same thing, but using my own code to do it, would be polite to let the other mod author know that I plan on doing this.  Especially, if I am going to sell it for money.  Or even if the original author sells his mod for money, and I am going to create an exact same mod and give it away for free.  In any case, polite and respectful to attempt to let the mod author know of this.

EDIT:  Just for the record, I'm not against competition amongst mods, would just be nice to know that it's out there.

[Arantor]

Ah my bad, I thought you were referring to the case of the mod you asked me about yesterday.

Unfortunately we can't police folks writing mods that duplicate the function if they have one thing to differentiate them, but yes it would be polite.

[onepiece]

If people create a mod and post it up on the mod site, and someone wants to make a mod exactly like it (either paid or free), they should attempt to contact the mod author (especially if they are using any code from that mod), unless their is a license attached to the mod that specifically states that you are not allowed to modify and redistribute this mod, and in that case you shouldn't modify it and redistribute it (either paid or free, but especially PAID).  If you are making a mod that functions exactly the same as another mod functions, than letting the other mod author know of this would be polite and respectful.  HERE's an example of this:  Search Focus DropDown Request at GM, now if I wanted to modify this for that person, I should contact the MOD Author and ask them if that would be ok with them before I go making this compatible with RC2 (which it already says it is) and redistributing it (either privately and/or publicly).  Also, on the opposite side of this, if I wanted to create a mod that does exactly the same thing, but using my own code to do it, would be polite to let the other mod author know that I plan on doing this.  Especially, if I am going to sell it for money.  Or even if the original author sells his mod for money, and I am going to create an exact same mod and give it away for free.  In any case, polite and respectful to attempt to let the mod author know of this.

EDIT:  Just for the record, I'm not against competition amongst mods, would just be nice to know that it's out there.

They must ask for permission from the original author, if they are using their code. I see no reason why someone should notify (I guess you don't mean asking permission as that doesn't make any sense) author of a mod which has same/similar functionality as the mod you are coding though. Coding a such a mod would not be something bad that notifying the other author would sound polite. There is simply no need if it's your code, at least how I see it.

[Antechinus]

The only questionable part comes around when you can't avoid using the same or similar code even though you wrote it yourself without actually looking at the preceding mod. I can see how that could happen sometimes simply because there are limited ways of getting the same functionality.

[SoLoGHoST]

Yeah, I see what you mean by this also Antechinus.  But how easy is it really to just grab someone else's code and change the variable names from it to whatever you want it to be and state that you created the mod?!  A bit too easy if you ask me.

Anyways, right Tenma, not saying they have to ask for permission to create a mod that functions exactly the same.  But in any case, if they are selling a mod that has stolen code in it that performs the same function as the original author's mod, how would the author of the original mod know??  I mean, why would he buy this mod if he already created his own mod that does this??  So how is he supposed to know that the code has been stolen from him without buying the mod and seeing for himself??

Well, anyways, just my 2 cents...

[onepiece]

The only questionable part comes around when you can't avoid using the same or similar code even though you wrote it yourself without actually looking at the preceding mod. I can see how that could happen sometimes simply because there are limited ways of getting the same functionality.

You could have such cases where there is a single way to add a functionality but it would be very very rare. Even in that case, there is little to no chance of giving variables the same name or adding same comment lines or the same tabs and spaces. Even if that happened, if you didn't look at the other authors' work, there is again no need to ask or anything.

Yeah, I see what you mean by this also Antechinus.  But how easy is it really to just grab someone else's code and change the variable names from it to whatever you want it to be and state that you created the mod?!  A bit too easy if you ask me.

It's easy but I, personally, couldn't care less about those people. It's just impossible to prevent, when some people don't have their characters and understanding of ethics fully developed yet. Pity...

Anyways, right Tenma, not saying they have to ask for permission to create a mod that functions exactly the same.  But in any case, if they are selling a mod that has stolen code in it that performs the same function as the original author's mod, how would the author of the original mod know??  I mean, why would he buy this mod if he already created his own mod that does this??  So how is he supposed to know that the code has been stolen from him without buying the mod and seeing for himself??

Like I said, there is no way to prevent it. If people want to violate things, they do. If you are using others' code, be it a single line or a thousand, you must ask permission and I'm sure we both agree at that point. However, you said they should notify other author when you code a mod with similar functionality and that's what I don't think makes any sense.

[Dannii]

Can't happen unless SMF itself goes to a true FOSS license as well, but yes, you're right.

Not necessarily, a SMF mod need not include any SMF code, even in search strings. I'll let someone else make a useful mod doing so though

The only questionable part comes around when you can't avoid using the same or similar code even though you wrote it yourself without actually looking at the preceding mod. I can see how that could happen sometimes simply because there are limited ways of getting the same functionality.

Such things are unlikely to be copyrightable. Noone could copyright an addition function for example.

[Sorck]

The only questionable part comes around when you can't avoid using the same or similar code even though you wrote it yourself without actually looking at the preceding mod. I can see how that could happen sometimes simply because there are limited ways of getting the same functionality.

Such things are unlikely to be copyrightable. Noone could copyright an addition function for example.

With many things there is only one simple and effective way of performing an action, it also wouldn't be possible to copyright an sql query (well, I don't think they could be  )
I've only ever used a simple 3 line function from another mod, this was because I don't really understand preg_replace() and there wouldn't be any other way of stripping <?php & ?> tags (server side, that is).

[Nao 尚]

There's nothing better than preg_replace to do things in 1000 different ways actually
(Of course that's from a guy who spent months trying to make his own regex look cool and unreadable )

[sangwe11]

There's nothing better than preg_replace to do things in 1000 different ways actually
(Of course that's from a guy who spent months trying to make his own regex look cool and unreadable )

Someone needs a life

[Nao 尚]

I mostly need to be paid for that.