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Slick but boring

Started by KarterJK, August 06, 2003, 11:25:56 PM

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KarterJK

I learned how to create a BBS using the original Yabb... I just installed the YabbSE and now SMF seems to be the next generation.  There are things I loved about YabbSE that out weighed the original Yabb.  The database support was genius. but to be truely functional, you needed to understand MySQL (whiich is not SIMPLE).  Plus encrypting everything and using TINYTEXT is a nightmare.  I wished you had allowed two modes of installation via the database. straight text data, vs encryption.  

As, it is now, I have to extensively learn not only YabbSE but how to convert encryption.  God, one can only handle so much. I dont do this for a living as you do.

In the YabbSE forum, I have seen debates about supporting Netscape, differences over the name, charging for customer support, la, la, la, la the list goes ons.

Personally, I think the developers have done a great job.  But I am not certain my needs, really need this slick, new, commercial look.  Somethings are better left simple.

So, here is my wish list....

If its possible, retain the HTML coding for the templates, for the old style format.  But encourage small changes to let people absorb the new information at a gradual pace.

SMF and or Yabb definately needs to still support Netscape.  As much as I dislike Netscape and spent many an hour programming special routines for it.  The point is!  Different strokes, for different folks.

Do, I like the new look?  It reminds me of every of website out there. (slick but boring).  the nice little margin on the left, and ahhhh maybe one on the right and while I see this quite unique for SMF.  I am not certain, I wish to conform to norm or the commercialized look.  Thats why I liked YabbSE and Yabb, it allowed extensive changes.

As for charging for support.  Absolutely!!!.... I think it is imperative that you be able to sustain your efforts.  I have faith, that you will not forget your loyal members and retain an open forum.

Do I like the new??  Not sure yet, not seen the final product.  I know I liked YabbSE and my heart still lies in Yabb for all it has taught me.  

I am learning SWISH and Flash and have started adding buttons, etc. to my Yabb site that matches my over all site. Its easy to do with the current templates.    My only hope is the new version will allow the same ease and functionality that past versions have.   Just dont stray to far, or I know as one, I will abandon it, if it is truely not that SIMPLE any more.

Joshua Dickerson

1.) there is only 1 encrypted thing in YSE/SMF, passwords.
2.) After getting past the initial block of the template system mentality (which will be EXTREMELY well documented and will be very easy for you to pick up once you look at it) templates turn out to be easier.
3.) what is wrong with using tinytext? Maybe you didn't upgrade to 1.5.3?
4.) using a flat text system at the start of YSE would have been exactly what they were trying to avoid.
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Need help? See the wiki. Want to help SMF? See the wiki!

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Douglas

QuoteI learned how to create a BBS using the original Yabb... I just installed the YabbSE and now SMF seems to be the next generation.  There are things I loved about YabbSE that out weighed the original Yabb.  The database support was genius. but to be truely functional, you needed to understand MySQL (whiich is not SIMPLE).  Plus encrypting everything and using TINYTEXT is a nightmare.  I wished you had allowed two modes of installation via the database. straight text data, vs encryption.  

As, it is now, I have to extensively learn not only YabbSE but how to convert encryption.  God, one can only handle so much. I dont do this for a living as you do.
I'm not qualified enough to comment on the straight text vs. tiny text stuff, so I'll defer to the Devel team on that.

What I CAN say is that none of us do this site for a living.  This has been a labor of love for several people for a few years.  Before we switched over to SMF, I volunteered my time to help people out on YaBB SE.  I still do.  Why?  Because since I cannot contribute financially right now, I can help support something that I truly enjoy by giving free support to help take the load off the Development and Mod teams.  Even with paid support, this isn't my full time job, I support these guys because I believe in the product they're delivering to it's members.

QuoteIn the YabbSE forum, I have seen debates about supporting Netscape, differences over the name, charging for customer support, la, la, la, la the list goes ons.
Right now, we're having problems with Mozilla 1.4, HOWEVER, that's been attributed to the ads put out by one of the advertisers, and NOT the system itself.  That's a far cry from it being a Netscape problem.  We've got people using Opera, IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Firebird, Lynx and several other types.  I have the first four browsers, and can view this site without problems.  Call me a sellout, I don't care.  I prefer to use IE.

QuoteIf its possible, retain the HTML coding for the templates, for the old style format.  But encourage small changes to let people absorb the new information at a gradual pace.
Templates are going to be totally customizable on the new system, with improved handling and SO much more.  It's 1,000% better than YSE's system, which was fair.

QuoteSMF and or Yabb definately needs to still support Netscape.  As much as I dislike Netscape and spent many an hour programming special routines for it.  The point is!  Different strokes, for different folks.
See my answer above my previous answer.

QuoteDo, I like the new look?  It reminds me of every of website out there. (slick but boring).  the nice little margin on the left, and ahhhh maybe one on the right and while I see this quite unique for SMF.  I am not certain, I wish to conform to norm or the commercialized look.  Thats why I liked YabbSE and Yabb, it allowed extensive changes.
You're going to love SMF, then, cause it's even easier to customize your layout.  I've never conformed to the norm (see http://forums.therealms.net/forums/ for an example).  You'll be able to do your customizations and even MORE with SMF.  Hands down, no questions asked.

QuoteAs for charging for support.  Absolutely!!!.... I think it is imperative that you be able to sustain your efforts.  I have faith, that you will not forget your loyal members and retain an open forum.
The only difference basically is that Charter Members get support on a one to one basis, and in a private area.  Everyone else will still receive the same level of support they've come to know, expect and love on the YSE site.  Being that I'm a proud member of the support team, I have full expectations of myself to support both Charter Members and regular members equally.  My focus is Charter Members, however, I'll still give everyone the same top notch support that I can, as quickly as I can.

QuoteDo I like the new??  Not sure yet, not seen the final product.  I know I liked YabbSE and my heart still lies in Yabb for all it has taught me.
The Devel team is FAR from being done with adding features in and fixing bugs.  Every time I come on (averaging once every two hours or less), I see a new bug reported and see that it's been noted, or in the process of being fixed.  Features are being built in around the bug fixes.  There's a LOT of activity going on, and the Devel Team is to absolutely be commended for the level of work they're doing.

QuoteI am learning SWISH and Flash and have started adding buttons, etc. to my Yabb site that matches my over all site. Its easy to do with the current templates.    My only hope is the new version will allow the same ease and functionality that past versions have.   Just dont stray to far, or I know as one, I will abandon it, if it is truely not that SIMPLE any more.
Hey, if you can handle the variables that will be coming in the completely revamped SSI.php, you'll be just fine with adding in Swish and Flash menus.  Looking forward to seeing what you can dish up!
Doug Hazard
* Full Stack (Web) Developer for The Catholic Diocese of Richmond
(20+ Diocesan sites, 130+ Church sites & 24 School sites)
* Sports Photographer and Media Personality
* CFB Historian
* Tech Admin for one 1M+ post, one 2M+ post and one 10M+ post sites (last two are powered by multiple servers)
* WordPress Developer (Junkie / Guru / Maven / whatever)

[Unknown]

A lot of poeple learned off YaBB, it was a great thing.

In my opinion, SQL is much simpler than Perl, PHP, or Spanish - all languages people manage to learn.  I'm sorry if you find it difficult at first - perhaps you need a new perspective.  I'm always willing to ask questions posed in Scripting Help.

A lot of people don't like having to support the fact that the old Netscrape didn't support CSS.  I am one of them.  No one uses it... :P.

If you are tlaking about the password encryption, that's done for the protection of users and I am MORE THAN for it.  It is irreversable and you cannot get their old password back - just the way I like it.  The forgot password tool is there for a reason.

TINYTEXT isn't that hard to understand/use.  Basically, it's a lot of data.... and, in SMF a lot of column types are smaller... because TINYTEXT is usually too big.  (it allows for 255 letters.)

Yes, all the templates are in the CVS with it still looking like YaBB SE.  Blue, and all.  It will be retained... and most likely released, but not as the default template.

A lot of people use Netscape 7.x, but hardly anyone uses Netscrape 4.x... support for that old browser has no reason as it's obselete and I've never seen anyone using it.

HA!  YaBB SE let you make about as many changes as hitting a pellow changes your mother.  SMF lets you change EVERYTHING.  And yes, you could make it look exactly like YaBB SE - or phpBB, I did that once too.

I leave the moment it's not free.  Period.

You will like SMF.  Just look at it's new features... more over, look at just how fast it is.

It's easier and yes simpler with SMF...

-[Unknown]

KarterJK

#4
Ok, okay, okay

I wasnt bashing.  I was just at the old forum.  I heard so much chatter, about everything.  I was just concerned.  Some friends are trying to get me to switch a different forum format (XML).

I have been and hopefully always will be a Yabb/SMF supporter, excuse me SMF/Yabb supporter.

As I said, I thought YabbSE was genius.  To me if it wasnt broke, why fix it.  I have just upgraded in the last few months and walked into all these changes. And I was thinking, OH NO, now I will need to re-learn everything all over again and try to convince everyone else I know that it is still worthy.

Just nervous, I guess.  I didnt mean to offend

As for the password encryption, I am still not familiar enough with MySQL to be comfortable with it.  and I searched everywhere for answers on how to decode it.  I was able to accomplish it.  But I still dont understand it.  and the TINYTEXT is fine except, every program i use seems to have problems with it.  for instants  '  apostrophes print out &c9  or whatever the hex value is, and trying to understand phpmyedit (I just shake my head) query, select, change use grrr.  Thank goodness, I have another program that allows easier editing and viewing.  

Its just alot to take in, in just a month or so....and support is not that great.  It can take 3 days just trying to find the solution to one answer.  As for the passwords, where is it documented that its password encrypted? and where is it documented how to deal with the issue? I spent hours just going through the forums, trying to see someone elses response. then another 2 days to 3 days with just trial and error programming to get it so I can read it it.

It works but, I still dont know why..

Yes, its frustrating.  when you are learning Yabb(SMF) PHP and MySQL all at once,  but I really want to use it....sometimes, I think I must be a masochist or something to endure it all.





[Unknown]

Heh, sorry... I didn't see that either of the others had replied, I took too long to type my response.

-[Unknown]

Joshua Dickerson

Karter: your problem isn't with SMF. It is with PHP and MySQL. The reason that passwords aren't documented on how to decrypt them is because it is near impossible, and I mean that with all sincerity. Also, it is a potential security risk (for people registering) to allow you to view their passwords.

About the support not being great.. I think you might not be talking about the same forum software ;) This is probably the best support ever. Replies usually take place within minutes/hours
Come work with me at Promenade Group



Need help? See the wiki. Want to help SMF? See the wiki!

Did you know you can help develop SMF? See us on Github.

How have you bettered the world today?

[Unknown]

You saw that here!

And, the issue of &#whatever; - why are you editing it directly with phpMyAdmin?  You can edit it so easily with YABB SE/SMF!  But, use htmlentitydecode()... err I think that's the function name.

The SSI for SMF includes a checkPassword function to check and authenticate log in information....

-[Unknown]

Joshua Dickerson

btw, an XML forum is going to be unbelievably slow.
Come work with me at Promenade Group



Need help? See the wiki. Want to help SMF? See the wiki!

Did you know you can help develop SMF? See us on Github.

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Overseer

is the password encrypted? i thought it was a hash.. in which case it cant be decrypted... thats why u have to get a newly generated password... look up hashing and not encryption. (try looking up SHA-1 or MD5 )  

mattsiegman

Quote from: groundup on August 07, 2003, 03:02:54 AM
btw, an XML forum is going to be unbelievably slow.

You'd be surprised....
-- Matt Siegman

[Unknown]

Quote from: mattsiegman on August 07, 2003, 06:39:46 PM
Quote from: groundup on August 07, 2003, 03:02:54 AM
btw, an XML forum is going to be unbelievably slow.

You'd be surprised....

Well, using flatfile is always slower than MySQL... but, it could be amde to be... decent...

-[Unknown]

mattsiegman

Yup.  YaBB 2 using MySQL renders the page faster than flat text, hands down, but we have some cool things in our flattext driver that speed it up a helluva lot.
-- Matt Siegman

Minion

Quote from: KarterJK on August 06, 2003, 11:25:56 PM
Do, I like the new look?  It reminds me of every of website out there. (slick but boring).

I knew the mac feel was gonna tick-off the elites.   :D

Joshua Dickerson

Quote from: [Unknown] on August 07, 2003, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: mattsiegman on August 07, 2003, 06:39:46 PM
Quote from: groundup on August 07, 2003, 03:02:54 AM
btw, an XML forum is going to be unbelievably slow.

You'd be surprised....

Well, using flatfile is always slower than MySQL... but, it could be amde to be... decent...

-[Unknown]
* groundup could name a few times when using the filesystem is better than using a RDMBS
Come work with me at Promenade Group



Need help? See the wiki. Want to help SMF? See the wiki!

Did you know you can help develop SMF? See us on Github.

How have you bettered the world today?

Spaceman-Spiff

isnt the SQLite in php5 gonna make loading flat files faster & better?
http://news.php.net/article.php?group=php.internals&article=2715

Tim

#16
Quote from: KarterJK on August 06, 2003, 11:25:56 PM
SMF and or Yabb definately needs to still support Netscape.  As much as I dislike Netscape and spent many an hour programming special routines for it.  The point is!  Different strokes, for different folks.
I test all of my HTML (which is valid) in Opera, Mozilla and in IE.

Meaning there is no need to test it in NS, since the claim to be valid. Netscape lies, so the way I see it: crappity smack netscape!

But all of my woes will end in a couple of months when Netscape is shut down.

* Tim does a happy dance :)

Jack.R.Abbit™

Quote from: KarterJK on August 06, 2003, 11:25:56 PM
SMF and or Yabb definately needs to still support Netscape.  As much as I dislike Netscape and spent many an hour programming special routines for it.  The point is!  Different strokes, for different folks.
And what version of Netscape?  4.x is like 5+ years old...  I see no reason why a web site should have to support a browser that is using old technology.  I've had no problems viewing the forum on any of the more recent browsers.  Look at it this way... at some point the music shops stopped selling 8-tracks... ;)

Ben_S

This forum doesnt display right in IE3 :'(

;)
Liverpool FC Forum with 14 million+ posts.

Jack.R.Abbit™

Quote from: Ben_S on August 08, 2003, 12:14:55 PM
This forum doesnt display right in IE3 :'(

;)
LOL!  How freakin' old is that?  The other day I happened upon an old Netscape 2 CD in one of my many junl piles... I almost installed it just for grins... maybe I should.  LOL

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