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Author Topic: What would it take to remove the calendar?  (Read 39758 times)

Offline Angelina Belle

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What would it take to remove the calendar?
« on: November 15, 2011, 01:58:31 PM »
Wedge has decided it doesn't want a calendar.
So they took practically all trace of it out of the code.
Turns out, the calendar is so entwined with SMF 2.0 that this was more difficult than anticipated.

Interestingly, they've put in enough code hooks to allow the re-introduction of a calendar plugin at a later date.
I was going to give a count of files involved, but I gave up. Interested readers can count for themselves:  http://wedge.org/pub/feats/6108/new-revs/msg270398/?topicseen#new

The team does publish an amazing amount of detail about every rev as they check it in.  I think it is part of the fun for them.  It's documentation, too.

Hmm..  Now I have to wonder what interesting things the other forks are up to...
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- Hanlon's Razor

Offline Matthew K.

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 02:30:15 PM »
I've completely removed the Calendar from SMF 2.0, before, as I believe it should be an official modification, with a completely new system in itself.

Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 02:37:55 PM »
I guess it was a lot of work.

And I think it is worth putting forward what you learned in the process. Because, whether or not it is being considered for 2.1, it will certainly be worth considering for SMF 3.0.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- Hanlon's Razor

Offline Illori

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 02:40:50 PM »
i believe once we start using smCore for 3.0 it is norv's plan to have things like the calendar has a mod or plugin and the default forum will be all you get and the rest will be extra that has to be installed later.

Offline 青山 素子

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 03:49:02 PM »
Quote
Rules of this board
* This board is for discussion of open-source forks of SMF 2.

Quote
http://wedge.org/pub/faq/6358/faq-is-it-a-friendly-fork/
the license we chose is set to prevent SMF from re-using our implementations

http://wedge.org/license/
1(d): Any Distribution of this Package, whether as a Modified Package or not, requires express written consent from Wedgeward.
1(e): Your name is not Jonathan Valentin (aka "vbgamer45") or Alex Kühne (aka "Akyhne"), and you don't work with any company associated with them, including but not limited to Samson Software of Bloomingdale, Illinois.

Quote
http://opensource.org/docs/osd

1. Free Redistribution
The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale.

5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups
The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.

License term 1(d) violates OSD #1, term 1(e) violates #5. If we take the OSD as the general guide for what it means to be "open source", then Wedge is not open source and discussion of it is not allowed per the rules of this board, even if you try to sneak it in tangentially.

(Yeah, we can argue that as the source code is available to view, it's "open source" as was the argument for SMF itself for many years, but given that the Simple Machines Board Chairman has refuted that argument at least once since the license change to BSD, it would be silly to jump back to that argument now.)
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Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


Offline Illori

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 03:55:29 PM »
how is this *discussion* a tip or a trick?

Offline Oldiesmann

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 03:56:08 PM »
I moved it here because it's a "tip" on how to remove the calendar if you really want to... Wedge does not fit the criteria for the SMF Forks board.
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Offline Illori

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 03:57:30 PM »
there is no code provided on how to do it, so it is not a tip.

Offline Matthew K.

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 03:59:00 PM »
It's definitely not fit for the Tips and Tricks board, imo.

Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 04:33:46 PM »
Rats. It is so useful to discuss what is going on in other forks, because of what this reveals about SMF.

Maybe "development" would be a better place for it, instead of in forks.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- Hanlon's Razor

Offline Illori

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 04:37:02 PM »
how about we try the feature requests board ;) i think this would be a better place to talk about this.

Offline Norv

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 05:01:54 PM »
[off topic now]

Quote
http://wedge.org/pub/faq/6358/faq-is-it-a-friendly-fork/
the license we chose is set to prevent SMF from re-using our implementations

http://wedge.org/license/
1(d): Any Distribution of this Package, whether as a Modified Package or not, requires express written consent from Wedgeward.
1(e): Your name is not Jonathan Valentin (aka "vbgamer45") or Alex Kühne (aka "Akyhne"), and you don't work with any company associated with them, including but not limited to Samson Software of Bloomingdale, Illinois.

Quote
http://opensource.org/docs/osd

1. Free Redistribution
The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale.

5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups
The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.

License term 1(d) violates OSD #1, term 1(e) violates #5. If we take the OSD as the general guide for what it means to be "open source", then Wedge is not open source

This is correct. Not only from OSD criteria (strictly), this kind of license (in particular the discriminatory part) will never be considered [Free and] Open Source under more than one possible definitions of FOSS.

[/off topic]

Please, feel free to share ideas on calendar. Ideas are always valuable, and thank you for taking the time to bring them up. There are also enhancements on the current calendar feature that have been brought up (and we'll take them all into account). I will be back on this.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 05:06:32 PM by Norv »
To-do lists are for deferral. The more things you write down the later they're done… until you have 100s of lists of things you don't do.
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Offline live627

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 06:15:54 PM »
Interested readers can count for themselves:  http://wedge.org/pub/feats/6108/new-revs/msg270398/?topicseen#new
And even then, there were about four follow-up commits.

Quote
Hmm..  Now I have to wonder what interesting things the other forks are up to...
Most forks have already died off. Apparently, only Wedge and EoS are still alive.
Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.
- Albert Einstein

Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2011, 07:01:21 AM »
So true! I think a fork is more work than most people realize.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- Hanlon's Razor

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2011, 11:39:11 AM »
Hey, i'm still alive.. :) But then I don't have a demo up or code to show yet, so maybe i'll shut up now lol.. :P Still going strong though, but have to admit while mine will be proper BSD in the end,  I reeeally enjoy being the sole dev on it. ;D

Anyways...

Removing the calendar I think is a mistake, for Wedge(or SMF in the future) part. Events, in the broadest sense , is very useful in a forum enviroment IMO, its just that the calendar of SMF was always considered more of a "birthday thingie"..but turn it onto "events manager" and you have more use for it. It should have more options, like attaching files(well, the topic already does that, but more could be used with strictly "event" attachments), attendance features and history, and past events tied to profile for example. And of course, if enough playground is given, one can also let users dable with easy todo-lists, or private calendars of whatever they like.

It seems such a underdeveloped feature..and such were doomed to be cut out at one point or other(by SMF or forks) perhaps. I think its better to expand it though. And in ViennaBBS it will. (if not in the absolute first release, surely in the following)

Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2011, 11:52:45 AM »
Wedge actually stuck in hooks for later development. So we may see later what ideas they have for expanding on events management.

It is a natural componant of a community-building website.

When you've got a repo or demo or something to link to, we'll be sure to list your fork.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- Hanlon's Razor

Offline Kindred

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2011, 01:26:34 PM »
Oh, we have a whole list of things that were planned to add to the calendar


recurring events
event times
attendees
limited attendence/signups
load holidays via upload of CSV
download iCal/vCal for events


I actually has all of those in a 1.1.0 mod that just got to be too much for me to maintain.
(borrowed from Jack's Phat Cal Pack for 1.0 and Grudge's holiday import)

All of that, plus some other goodies are planned to be added.
the goal, however, was to make the calendar a fully functional add-on (see above) rather than an inherent part of the core product because adding all that could increase the code significantly. Additionally, only about 50% of the forums actually USE the calendar for anything other than birthdays.

wedge isn't breaking any new ground with their actions... it's something that we've been planning for 2.++ even while 2.0 was being finished (as Arantor is quite aware)
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 02:10:14 PM »
I'm sure he knows he was involved in lots of features and priorities discussions. By working on a fork, he is able to prioritize things the way he wants.

Seems to suit him.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- Hanlon's Razor

Offline Kindred

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 07:33:57 PM »
so, it's been brought to my attention that some people may read my previous statement as yet another attack....   it was not intended as such.
Just a comment and that we actually intended to do the same thing (and yes, we are aware that it is not a minor un-raveling)....


as for suiting him....   I haven't been over there for a while, so I'll take your word for it. Hopefully both he and Nao are happy. :)
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Offline ~DS~

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Re: What would it take to remove the calendar?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 12:37:00 PM »
as for suiting him....   I haven't been over there for a while, so I'll take your word for it. Hopefully both he and Nao are happy. :)
Oh, I'm sure they are, I sure am as well. They are both the most active developers I've ever see...
“There is no god, and that’s the simple truth. If every trace of any single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again."
~Penn Jillette – God, NO! – 2011