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Author Topic: Gender Equality  (Read 69284 times)

Offline Beowulf1976

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Gender Equality
« on: August 29, 2017, 06:54:19 AM »
One of my members asked if there could be an "other" setting in the gender selection.


I created the attached gif for an "other" selection.


In the interests of gender equality, instead of the "more genders" mod being updated/implemented for 2.0 - perhaps there should be an "other" option NOW, as standard?


Anyone? :)
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Offline Illori

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2017, 07:25:06 AM »
SMF 2.0 is not having any features added to it, it is feature locked.

Offline Antes

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2017, 07:27:19 AM »
In SMF 2.1, development team moved gender section into different area so in next version you can add extra genders if you wish.


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Offline Beowulf1976

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2017, 07:36:43 AM »
SMF 2.0 is not having any features added to it, it is feature locked.

I thought I had edited all my bits about 2.0 out (I read the section about not requesting features for previous versions than 2.1 AFTER my op) I have asked for a mod request for this to be implemented as I imagine with all the mods and work I have done with 2.0.* it will be a LONG time before I even contemplate 2.1.*
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Offline Beowulf1976

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2017, 07:39:30 AM »
In SMF 2.1, development team moved gender section into different area so in next version you can add extra genders if you wish.

That will be AWESOME!

I am so going to have a "unicorn" gender option :D
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Offline shawnb61

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2017, 07:53:06 AM »
Check the link in your mod request post.

There is a good thread where options are explored.
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Offline d3vcho(void)

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 08:19:08 AM »
SMF 2.0 is not having any features added to it, it is feature locked.

In SMF 2.1, development team moved gender section into different area so in next version you can add extra genders if you wish.

I'll mark this as solved.
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Offline almond

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2018, 05:26:53 PM »
One of my members asked if there could be an "other" setting in the gender selection.


I created the attached gif for an "other" selection.


In the interests of gender equality, instead of the "more genders" mod being updated/implemented for 2.0 - perhaps there should be an "other" option NOW, as standard?


Anyone? :)

Very late reply but you can do what I did. It's a "dirty" way.







Offline SaltedWeb

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 10:58:11 PM »
I find this an interesting add on as right now for the most part the USA only adds ( other ). There are many other countries that use SMF where this area is not as accepted. It would be better if it was a mod add on and not a core product, I can think right now of about 30 countries that might even find offense to it.  Me, I could care less whats in a software I just use it for my needs I never look at how politically correct a software is ??? I do however notice when someone pushes their point of view and puts politics into their software Facebook is a prime example and is guiding members to their ideology.  Please no flaming, I am not against or for it either way, but many other countries use SMF taking a political stand may offend some people that all I wanted to say about that. Looking back since 2005 I have not seen any addition in SMF that took a world political stand ? Slippery slope is all I was saying...
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Offline Suki

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2018, 11:03:59 AM »
As the one who did that change. Please do know that moving the genders and all the other "hardcoded" fields into custom profile fields obeys solely to a dev decision.  It makes sense to have all those fields moved to custom profiled fields.
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Offline SaltedWeb

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2018, 11:31:53 AM »
As the one who did that change. Please do know that moving the genders and all the other "hardcoded" fields into custom profile fields obeys solely to a dev decision.  It makes sense to have all those fields moved to custom profiled fields.

Right, but it would be the first political choice made on this software, looking back at the original concept of SMF was created with
neutrality in mind. You don't have to explain to me why you did it or how, its irrelevant to the point that a once a politically neutral software made a choice to add a politically motivated choices it may effect how the rest of the world views the software. I think and correct me if i am wrong, the addition was thought to be more modern and main stream, I get that. But being this software is not only used, but translated in to many other languages and countries some may not find they political choice adequate and may view it as a political choice. This is a very sensitive topic viewed in extremes on both sides of the spectrum.

The reason software has to be neutral is because its used by all people. I have a LBGT section on my website even so the topic is not opposing to me personally. But I also have a degree in Cultural Anthropology and can tell you 100% cultures vary allot on political tolerance and SMF used to follow that neutrality.
You will no doubt have those who support that life that is reflected to be acceptable, there will be those who will not was all my point was about. And it would be the first time a political choice was added to the software when compared to world views. I have been using this software since its inception and beta tested the first releases so my point was stating this will be the first time a political addition to SMF was made and cautioning on that choice. That was all, obviously I am a huge fan of SMF and my site supported civil rights for LBGT  so I think my comments are quite valid. Was not commenting to create a debate was just making and observed statement as a long time user of SMF. Thats all best of luck.
 


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Offline Gwenwyfar

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2018, 11:47:44 AM »
If I understand correctly... ALL fields were moved to custom fields. It wasn't treated in any special way by being moved along all others. Seems pretty neutral to me :P

Which, by the way, I'm also glad to confirm this the reason behind the change :)
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Offline Kindred

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2018, 01:28:12 PM »
also, it's not a political choice.

As a custom profile field, you can have any combination of choices that suits YOUR beliefs
How is that, in any way, political?
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Offline Sesquipedalian

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2018, 12:42:23 PM »
FYI, the default options for 2.1's gender profile field are still None, Male, and Female.
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Offline SaltedWeb

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2018, 01:27:07 PM »
also, it's not a political choice.

As a custom profile field, you can have any combination of choices that suits YOUR beliefs
How is that, in any way, political?

Being you are calling it beliefs you kinda already are validating what I said, as being Male and Female is not a belief
yet "other" is a established as cultural distinction for if there was a solid distinction it would be Male Female Blue, Green etc?
Other is established within our western culture not defining a sex but a unknown distinction. You guys are all developer and bless you all for what you do, but you are not cultural specialist that takes decades of studies to understand how cultures are founded and operate.
It was a leap whether SMF recognizes it or not, as it may not be relevant here, but it has possibilities elsewhere.

The downside is that this can be made fun of and bantered and allows those whom do not approve of that particular life some have, and now can use  SMF software to exploit that option it has, why it may be said any addition could be manipulated in such ways this particular option allows that opening to be exploited. Having worked with many in those varied communities, there is a fine line between validation and condescension.  As I said don't have to agree and seems you all don't, but not looking at this from other angles and not recognizing this is a political western culture choice addition in the software was my point. If you don't see the point, does not make it invalid as this is something SMF could not be experts at as no previous experiences suggest otherwise even in this topic no one mentioned any research or studies were done on impact, use etc.  The fact there is a topic such as this, and an addition to the software shows on its own the significance of such an addition since it was added based political knowledge in our own culture for we would have no reason to see such an addition otherwise. 

Just answering a question since it was asked.

SW
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Offline Kindred

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2018, 02:29:54 PM »
Actually, I am a teacher (amongst many other things) and have a degree in Psychology.

Recognized Gender is and always has been fluid in most cultures until the rise of the abhramic religions.
Even then, gender fluidity/nonconformance was accepted within many subcultures -- and is recognized as a biological truth, regardless of physical characteristics.


regardless of that...   whether I call it a belief or a truth...   the FACT is that SMF has not taken a stance on this other than to provide a way to add/change more/different options than none/m/f.  Therefore, there is no political stance. We provide for the changing needs of the world that best supports our users.

even if that still bothered you, MOST of the profile options were changed to customizable fields...   so you can't even point to gender and say that we singled it out.

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Offline Suki

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2018, 02:39:21 PM »
And I'm a sociologist :P


The OP asked for a particular user case, 2,1 happens to solve that particular case incidentally. The change made in 2.1 does not obey  to this particular case and does not obey to any cultural/political/sociological urge.

You can see a spoon as a weapon of mass destruction, someone else sees it as a tool to help you eat. If you already have your mind set in stone regarding this change being "politically oriented" then theres nothing much we can do about it but stating what was the original and true intention of that change, which we already did.

Yes, ALL hardcoded fields were moved to custom ones, every single one of them :)
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Offline SaltedWeb

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2018, 04:32:27 PM »
And I'm a sociologist :P


The OP asked for a particular user case, 2,1 happens to solve that particular case incidentally. The change made in 2.1 does not obey  to this particular case and does not obey to any cultural/political/sociological urge.

You can see a spoon as a weapon of mass destruction, someone else sees it as a tool to help you eat. If you already have your mind set in stone regarding this change being "politically oriented" then theres nothing much we can do about it but stating what was the original and true intention of that change, which we already did.

Yes, ALL hardcoded fields were moved to custom ones, every single one of them :)

Actually you have not provided any information to convince anyone with cultural training that this is not political.
If can't convince me of something that doesn't exist by using trigger words with no evidence to dispute what I said. However and I really enjoy this software always have and support all the very hard work that goes into it. This however does not provide you with a unique knowledge of culture none that you have shown to date.  Trying to explain the complexity of human culture in a topic space, would be like one of the developers here showing me how to understand all PHP code on a napkin.It acceptable if one doesn't agree but please don't insult my intelligence on a topic you won't show any proof you have advanced knowledge on.  So its not my software, I gave feedback you don't respect differing opinions thats fine. I am always polite and courtesies to everyone here at SMF, all I ask in return is that people are not condescending or disrespectful either. I will consider my opinion given, you don't agree and we will move on to enjoy the rest of our days.

SW
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Offline Kindred

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2018, 05:16:07 PM »
See, that's the thing -- we were not disrespectful or condescending.   We provided the reasoning behind the choice (ALL settings were moved to the configurable fields, including gender - because configuring those profile settings (not just gender) was a frequently requested enhancement)

We have proven that there was no political aspect in that decision.

You keep trying to suggest that even giving the option of changing/adding gender choices is a political decision - but it's not.
You keep trying to make it seem like there is some sort of human culture issue to be aware of with this decision - but there is not.

You assume that the people working on this project are all technical... but we're not.
We have teachers, psychologists, sociologists, linguists and probably a few other social-science folks...  So many of us ARE aware of the greater world culture and decisions...  but this choice to move the profile fields to configurable settings had nothing to do with any of that. It was actually a technical decision.

Now, My personal politics is another matter... but that has nothing to do with the decision of the SMF developers to change the way that profile fields are configured.
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Offline Sesquipedalian

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Re: Gender Equality
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2018, 11:42:44 PM »
Um, is this an argument about the software anymore? Because it seems like it has become an argument about how much knowledge people do or don't have, and I don't see that going anywhere useful to anyone.

SaltedWeb, I am having a bit of trouble trying to understand what your concrete proposal here is. The current plan is that SMF 2.1 will ship with the same three predefined gender options that it always has, but that set of options will also be able to be adjusted by the admin if the admin chooses to do so. What exactly would you change about this, given that our goal in this regard is to be as apolitical and anodyne on these matters as possible?
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