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Author Topic: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?  (Read 1977 times)

Offline mnn2

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How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« on: November 26, 2018, 10:31:50 AM »
How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?

We have this kind of dishonest user that filed refund at PayPal after he has enjoyed the paid premium content for months.

Now refund has been granted and how do I fight back against such dishonest user in the future?

I think since this is a core feature, SMF team should do something about it.
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Offline vbgamer45

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 10:35:34 AM »
Not much you can really do with paypal on non physical goods. You can have them sign an agreement works 50/50. Or send something physically.
SMF can't really do anything about that.
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Offline Arantor

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 10:36:32 AM »
If the premium features are downloads, I’ve usually had good experiences proving that the user downloaded the premium downloads without too much pain.
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Offline mnn2

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 10:42:16 AM »
Quote from: vbgamer45 on November 26, 2018, 10:35:34 AM
Not much you can really do with paypal on non physical goods. You can have them sign an agreement works 50/50. Or send something physically.
SMF can't really do anything about that.

I have this idea but I do not know how to code or whether it will convince PayPal to believe us.

Let's say we have this built-in feature that will send an email to an email account (gmail for example) each time a paid subscriber login and access his paid subscription account. The email content will contain his IP, his browser info, list of premium paid topics he has viewed and when he viewed them, etc. We will let PayPal staff to access this email account whenever there is refund request by such dishonest user.
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Offline mnn2

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 10:44:12 AM »
Quote from: Arantor on November 26, 2018, 10:36:32 AM
If the premium features are downloads, I’ve usually had good experiences proving that the user downloaded the premium downloads without too much pain.

It's not a downloadable items. A paid subscriber would have access to membergroup which has been granted to view premium topics in premium boards
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Offline Shambles

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 11:01:25 AM »
Have a look at the raw access logs on your server. They should contain links that your member has clicked, possibly useful in proving he accessed protected/subscription content.
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 11:45:04 AM »
I'm surprised PayPal allowed the refund.  Did they contact you?
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Offline mnn2

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2018, 11:51:37 AM »
Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on November 26, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
I'm surprised PayPal allowed the refund.  Did they contact you?

Yes. I think PayPal even not bother listening to my explanation. Very quick decision from PayPal side.
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Offline CoreISP

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2018, 11:52:21 AM »
Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on November 26, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
I'm surprised PayPal allowed the refund.  Did they contact you?

You are? :P I’m not. Especially the “unauthorised access” claims can be hard to combat. The payments for services are often easier to solve, granted you give them something to work with along with a clear explanation.
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Offline Gwenwyfar

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2018, 01:26:05 PM »
Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on November 26, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
I'm surprised PayPal allowed the refund.  Did they contact you?

Some companies close Paypal payment to certain countries for this very reason...

They're not the only company that favors an unproved customer complaint over the seller.
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Offline landyvlad

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 09:56:08 PM »
Paypal sucks.
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Offline Study Force

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 12:14:30 PM »
Quote from: landyvlad on December 03, 2018, 09:56:08 PM
Paypal sucks.

It's known to increase sales due to their trust-ability compared to other companies. They only suck when you're banned lol
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Offline landyvlad

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2019, 11:39:51 PM »
I'm just not a fan. Another forum I'm a member off had a SUBSTANTIAL amount of money (thousands) held ransom for a long time.
It was a forum for shooters and hunters, and paypal took a moral exception ....
IMHO a payment portal should be just that. Not sure how it's their place to judge who isn't "worthy".

/end rant mode

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.  :D
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No hack nor blackhats, just persistent asshats.

Offline ikramkhan

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2019, 04:59:20 PM »
I was also planning to create a special board (subscription type) from where members can get the YouTube Video Lecture links (Unlisted on YouTube).

So, should I use another payment method?

Also, as you all have good experience, can you tell me if there is any difference in the refund policy for Personal Paypal and Business Paypal?
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Offline SpacePhoenix

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 05:20:17 PM »
Quote from: ikramkhan on January 06, 2019, 04:59:20 PM
I was also planning to create a special board (subscription type) from where members can get the YouTube Video Lecture links (Unlisted on YouTube).

So, should I use another payment method?

Just had a quick google, looks lie potentially that could be against Youtube's TOS. You'd better check with Youtube if it would be against their TOS
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Offline ikramkhan

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Re: How to prove user has used paid subscription to PayPal to prevent refund?
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 05:29:27 PM »
Posting an unlisted video is not against the TOS... They have the option to upload the video as public or unlisted or private. YouTube also has a subscription system for such work. So it shouldn't be against the TOS...
But I will have a second look for sure.
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