Why the dissatisfaction?

[xenovanis]

Last week I noticed several people complaining about the lack of help on this forum. I saw them threatening to use other forums like phpBB and IPB, harass teammembers, even deleting their accounts. This is something I don't understand.

Since I registered to this forum (being a complete noob, knowing absolutely nothing about php) a couple of months ago I found my answers here, learned about php and mysql and got answers to all my questions, either by asking in a topic, reading topics, reading faqs and manuals or using the search buttons. This was so even before I became a chartermember, and still is.

Why is it that people expect the teammembers of SMF to do everything for them? This forum is filled with information, you should just take the time to find what you want. You can't expect to use open source software without the needs of modifying some aspects, which is also the beauty of it because you can adjust your forum to your satisfaction. Plenty of members are willing to share their findings, themes, mods for free, which they made in their own time and with their own skills. So, maybe they are not perfect at once, with the help of others they will be.

I'd just like to point out my appreciation to the ones who made this great project possible and for the help I received. Whereever and whenever I look I see teammembers running around helping others out and I'm proud to be part of this community. It makes me want to help others as well.

So, before you start complaining, consider this:

-> You're using free software
-> Everything possible will be done to make it perfect, no matter how many upgrades it might take
-> Most of your answers are stored somewhere in this forum, use the searchbutton
-> If they are not, the teammembers will do everything within their knowledge to help you out
-> Don't be lazy and start exploring yourself, you can't expect all to be done fore you

Enjoy SMF!

[[Unknown]]

Just so you know some of these people were... uhh, the same person .

Most of the dissatisfaction you speak of comes from the highly-modded camp.  While some people feel SMF is already over-featured (and in some ways I agree), and others feel it is evenly- or well-featured, there are some who feel it is not featured enough.  This, of course, is normal and to be expected.

If you use Microsoft Word, and you want to... say, make it so when you click File -> New it just opens a new standard word document, or so that Ctrl-} sets up your favorite font... you can't.  It's just not possible.  Will Microsoft do the change for you, if you ask them?  No freaking way.  What if you want to be able to go to Tools -> Play my writing music for those long essays?  Is there a plugin already written for that?  Can one even be written?

People expect more out of this software.  They want to be able to adjust everything.  Things they know they can't in other software.... but they know they can in this.  Yet, they complain - because they are having trouble doing it!  If they were using Word, it basically wouldn't be an option at all - but in this, because it's an option, but still takes a lot of work they are not willing to do... they complain!

Most of the modding camp are teenagers or lower.  Don't get me wrong, I love teenagers - I'm 19 myself, and most of the girls I like (that is to say all) are in that same range.  Thus I can safely say, I love teenagers.  Seriously though, teenagers sometimes just want things done, and haven't gotten the clue yet that their parents won't do it.  Not all, and I think we've all been there too.... or still are... but, it's true nonetheless.  And, so, these people who want mods... have no patience for it to be done, and no respect for the work involved.  In other words, they're spoiled.  That's okay - I'm plenty spoiled too.  We all have our faults, and I bet I could show anyone else up with mine.

The sad truth is, there's no pleasing everyone.  Especially the group of people who are not satisfied currently.  And, there aren't yet enough of their group who are motivated enough to create what they all want.  So, they're gonna complain.  It's going to happen.  They want their mods, even sometimes they want them as features...

You, on the other hand, and others.... aren't scared.  You know mommy doesn't know PHP, so you take initiative and learn PHP yourself.  You know what you want, and you take it.  Many teenagers are like this too.  Many, even, of the above teenagers simply flip-flop between the two states - in fact, that's probably the most common.  And, so, because you're willing to put out effort yourself - other people sense this, and feel more like helping you.

I have seen it time and time again.  It's human nature.  If someone sees someone who wants something done, however much they nag... if they're not willing to do it themself, however difficult, they don't really care.  If they are willing, they do care.  And, people will fall over themselves trying to help another person with something they CARE about.... but they will have trouble helping someone who doesn't care.  Just how it works with most people.  So, if you care... you'll get a LOT more help than if you don't care.  Or, in other words, if you're willing to work at it yourself, you'll get enough help that it may practically be done for you... but if you aren't, you'll get little.

I know, if someone posted and said, I'm working on X, I'd help them.  Anything they need.  But, if they said, I want you to make me X, I'd say: sorry, don't have time.  And it's true: I don't.

-[Unknown]

[Pause]

My sentiments exactly 

[Jeff Lewis]

Generally I think it's human nature. We're not perfect though and at times we may let things slip. I feel that if people are courteous to the team if they have slipped up, the team is more than happy to respond back in a likewise fashion.

It's when people "attack" the team that there becomes friction. We're here providing you with free software and free support. We like to do so and one way of saying thanks for your efforts is being constructive in your crticism

[Oldiesmann]

I guess people complain because they figure we don't want to lose them as a "customer", and we'll automatically do something about it to avoid sending someone off on a bad note. While we would love to be able to please everyone, it just isn't possible, and complaining isn't going to get you anywhere. Take the time to ask nicely and we'll try to help you in every way possible.

[jerm]

i for one am very satisfied with smf forums. I was running phpbb for my first month, then came into conflicts with phpbb.If you ever noticed their webhosting advertisig on the bottom that says  phpBB Hosting at $7.95. its an actual link, not a ad that changes every so often. So i figured it was a hosting company that phpbb thought was best to run their program. I soon found out it was by far one of the worse hosting companies i have ever seen. So i messaged them on the boards about that. post got locked with a response like "who cares". So i re-opened another thread on the same topic.. and of course it got closed with a rudder comment. So i thought of emailing the "owner" of phpbb, and never got a response. So since i totaly disagreed with what phpbb stood for. I looked for a change, and another hosting company. SMF was on that hosting company as one of the options.. i installed it, and its worked great ever since. So ya i guess im just saying thanks to all the people who put together this forum package, its really quite amazing, and i dont see why i'd ever really want to use another forum again. . i could go on listing all the features i enjoy, but its pretty much all of them, and its a lot of features to list lol

[Kretz]

Currently Im using IPB 2.0.3 and it truly is a great board, not many faults... exept for one... a big one... it costs so damn much! If it didnt cost so much it would be perfect (almost). And one more thing... its not open source so its not easily modified wich I think it should be.
Therefore, after all the good stuff I've heard about this software, I will probably switch to SMF instead.

I will get back with my opinion when I've got it running and got some experience.

Oh, and by the way, I advise everyone to take my opinion seriously since Ive probably got more experience with bb's then every single one of you, Ive been admin/moderator on about 100 boards during 2004 only.

Here is my opinion about some bb softwares:

phpBB: Great software, not many flaws. Looks kinda boring tho, could have a little more graphics. Some features missing but that can often be fixed with mods from their HUGE mod database.
Their community forum is HUGE, most of your questions are answered by searching through the forums. They have alot of skins and mods on their main site. ITS OPEN SOURCE!!!
Rate: 4/5

IPB: Great software aswell, almost no flaws. Costs way too much, but if you are looking after the best bb software and are willing to pay for it, this is the one. Support is great. It looks realy good from the start, you could actually run it with the default skin without puking (u cant do that wiht phpbb)... There is some free skins out there but I dont like them. The proffesional skins costs about $20 but they do look very nice though. There is mods out there but they are little harder to find and there isnt even close to the amount of mods for phpBB. ITS NOT OPEN SOURCE!!!
Rate: 4.7/5

SMF: Comming soon...

[redone]

I love SMF myself. I have learnt and taken several of the mod's off my board! People around here have always been helpful to me.

To be honest this forum just like any will have its fair share of people who don't just expect a reply in a posting but you to login and work on there site for them!

[Kindred]

Wow, Kretz...   full of yourself, aren't you?

Personally, I love SMF.   I've been BBSing since the modem-BBS days. I originally ran Wildcat from Mustang Software... but as has been mentioned about various systems... it was expensive and they did not provide Source...

tried a bunch of others and got into WWIV software.  With a relatively inexpensive registration, I got the source code in Pascal, which was upgraded to C and thence to C++. Mods were published mostly by the SysOps... and the board was extremely customizable, once you knew a little C...

What's the purpose of this flashback into days of yore?

Well, SMF is just like that... Except you don't even have to register/pay to get the source code!

Personally, with my long time of experience with BBSs, I rate SMF a 9 out of 10... why not a 10? Well, because there's always room for improvement. (LOL!)
I tried a bunch of the other systems, and quite honestly, I don't like phpBB... I don't like IPB... I can't stand simpleboard...

I have found the SMF team to be extremely helpful... I have found the other SMF users to be extremely helpful... and I, in turn, have attempted to be helpful to others.


Now, back to the original question of the thread...   WHy do all these people (or single person with multiple accounts) complain?
Well, as people have already said, these guys want something handed to them that does everythign, including wash the dishes. They want it all with no work... They can't be bothered to learn php...
No offense to the teenagers out there (I have not been a teenager for a long time), but I see it every day in school... kids are LAZY. They've been handed things by parents, they've been handed things by teachers... they've seen that there is no need to do any real work.
(now, mind you, this may be (and probably is) particular to the US)
It's the culture... Kids (and hence the adults they become) now expect to be rewarded to doing the things they are supposed to do anyway, and the only punishment for not doing them is a delay on the reward.

[Trekkie101]

Kretz exactly who do you think you are, your ego is bigger than the biggest forum on the net. Your opinion is valued and I notice quite a few valid points, but you are treating the rest of us like our opinions don't count and you don't care what anyone says.  Those 100 boards I feel sorry for.

Currently I'm using IPB 2.0.3 and it truly is a great board, not many faults

Give it time, there will be flaws found, every software has them.

Ive probably got more experience with bb's then every single one of you

I highly doubt it, you've maybe tried a few but doesn't make you an expert, you haven't made a board software thats a major player have you? Then I suggest many people here: Developers, Mod Developers, Skinners, Support Team, Some members, all probably know a great deal more than you. (Work for AOL tech support? Always say there the best but have to call other people)

phpBB: Great software, not many flaws.

Check your mail, or check phpBB.com another two flaws have just been fixed, thats three updates in just as many months, its not there fault but theres flaws all right. Also its in 438th place for size.

HUGE mod database

Theres 100+ here already and the first version is only just out

Looks kinda boring tho, could have a little more graphics

What is to stop your expertise from enhancing it

IPB: Great software as well, almost no flaws

Maybe it does have flaws, just harder to find.

but if you are looking after the best BB software and are willing to pay for it,

In your opinion not mine

default skin without puking (u cant do that with phpbb)...

But I thought we were to take you serious, i doubt you actually throw up.

Please don't come here and shout to regular people like myself about how your an expert, and why we should listen to you more than say:
xenovanis
[Unknown]
Mattitude
Jeff
Oldiesmann
electrohome88

I took particular offense to this topic, purely the way you phrased it. It seemed awful aggressive and disrespectful to me and probably others.

[ryanbsoftware]

i like SMF, it has the main features i expect and you can almost find a mod for whatever other functinality you want, i personally have a somewhat higely modded forum but i like to have specific features.  when i first found out about SMF and heard its based off of yabbse, i didn't want to bother to try it cause i figured not much would change and it would be just as, sorry to say but bad.  but its not their were any other free bbs for me to try and it turned out that SMF is 1.00000x10^1000 times better than yabbse.

[Kretz]

Trekkie101, my post didnt come out as it was supposed to, Im realy sorry if you found it offensive.

The thing I said about I having more experience then every single one of you was supposed to be more then most of you, just a typing mistake.

And I know IPB has flaws aswell, but I havent found that many, and Ive never had a problem with the board 'couse of flaws. The same thing goes with phpBB.

The thing about phpBB looking boring is the default skin, you can always custimize everything.

About IPB being the best, that my opinion and I havent realy tried SMF yet, I will do that soon, maybe today and I will come here with my opinion about it aswell...


And one more thing, I realy think you should listen to everyone, but lets say... someone who is only here to insult people and such things... should they be taken as seriously as an expert? I dont think so anyway. Everyone deserves to be listened to, but if they come here saying stuff thats realy not true and got no facts to back it up, then that opinion should not be taken seriously...

Again, sorry if you and others found my post offensive in any way, Im here to learn about SMF not to insult anyone or post offensive opinions...

Thank you.

[Kretz]

Ive now installed SMF and tried it out a little, done some tests... and all I have to say is WOW! This bb software is great, it has the ease of phpbb and the features of IPB and it looks great... The ACP is easy aswell...

Rate: 4.9/5 (there is always stuff that can be improved)

[Amacythe]

Oh I get it.  You came here to make a first post to get everyone's attention, then ease our minds with your opinion of how much better SMF is.  Sneaky, but at least you've seen the light

[Kretz]

I said at first that I was gonna try SMF and come here with my opinion about it...and so I did... Im realy happy I tried it though 

[Jeff Lewis]

Everyone deserves to be listened to, but if they come here saying stuff thats realy not true and got no facts to back it up, then that opinion should not be taken seriously...

Fully agreed that everyones opinion matters. While you can't please everyone all of the time, there are certainly things to learn from feedback given to the team.

[[Unknown]]

Personally, I like SMF too but I'm obviously biased.

I will say one thing... excluding SMF (since I am so biased) I would prefer vBulletin over Invision for one reason: I have seen evidence that the former is much more scalable to larger situations.  It's still to be seen how SMF performs here, in many ways, but I've seen Invision flounder more than vBulletin - which flounders at a point too.

(or single person with multiple accounts)

We've had that.  They think they're so slick too.

No offense to the teenagers out there (I have not been a teenager for a long time), but I see it every day in school... kids are LAZY.

Well, I'll say two things to this:

1. I'm a geek, and I've got geek friends.  I could show you a bunch of people who definitely are not lazy.
2. Being lazy can be a good thing; the reason I'm so keen to have SMF fast is completely out of laziness: I'm way too impatient to wait for anything!  I want it now, and if that means more work programming, fine, but I'll have it now .  Many people optimize out of laziness.

I would have worded that better, but my face feels like it's melting off because of my cold, so it's hard to make accurate sentences.  I think I made my point, hopefully.

Check your mail, or check phpBB.com another two flaws have just been fixed, thats three updates in just as many months, its not there fault but theres flaws all right. Also its in 438th place for size.

Well, I think you're being awfully harsh here.  The phpBB software, while not my personal cup o' tea, has had a lot of work go into it, and can't help getting flaws found.  There are flaws in everything, because there are flaws in us, and I wouldn't say anything so strong about such well-used software.

Anyway, I think you took Kretz' feedback a bit strongly too, to me it sounded as if it was made in some humour.  Regardless, all's well that ends well so I hope we can all shake each other's hands?

The ACP is easy aswell...

Actually, I find that many - coming from Invision - for some reason say the administration center is complicated and hard to navigate.  While I've always felt that the Invision one is just that, and SMF's is much better, I am again biased.  I'm glad to hear someone who likes Invision saying otherwise.

Thanks for your comments.

-[Unknown]

[ryanbsoftware]

i agree SMF is the best, i have tried many BBS, i would say this is even beter than vb, because its free, and it still has the main features, and tons of mods for just about anything else you can think of.

[Elijah Bliss]

One of the #1 rules on my board is Don't complain about free stuff.

Get a Charter Membership, then you can complain, lol j/k

Seriously though, I understand criticisms, but people who belly ache make me sick. I've seen quite a few questionable complaints and requests since I've been here.

I came from YaBB to SMF. I love SMF. Great stuff. I've gotten more than my money's worth of help here. I even learned some basic PHP and MySQL. Beyond that, I even picked up some lateral thinking skills while modding my forum. I'm a photographer/graphic designer, both of which gives you wide latitude, to get away with mistakes, if there is such a thing in that field creatively, programming on the other hand works a different area of the gray matter an excellent mental exercise, little to no room for mistakes.

Now that's what I've gotten out of SMF.

[Unknown] is 19? No way! He's going to be the Shawn Fanning of Message Boards.
SMF is one hell of a project to have on your resume at such a young age.

[Pause]

[Unknown] is 19? No way! He's going to be the Shawn Fanning of Message Boards.
SMF is one hell of a project to have on your resume at such a young age.

Who's Shawn Fanning?