[WIP] rc3 avatar link mod!

[Arantor]

*headdesk*

It's not about that. The rules say if it's a valid package then it's allowed.

However, there is a very messed up mindset around what is a mod. Do you consider a smiley pack or an avatar pack to be a true mod? Same deal goes for a few lines of mod; it's not really a modification, it's a tweak.

[Liam.]

No, I believe that Smilies/Avatars should have their own site like the Mod/Theme/Upgrade sites...

Everyone has their own opinions on what's what, so I suppose you can't really say anything about it since there will always be people fighting back...

[DoctorMalboro]

Ehm... Lab... i told you that idea a time ago...

[Nick Whetstone]

While I do agree that it maybe should simply be a tip/trick, looking back, I'd be hypocritical to say I didn't upload should-be tips and tricks as well. I would not upload similar Mods today.

Examples:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2421 - should be a tip/trick.
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2451 - should be a tip/trick since it's a simple theme tweak.

But I do agree with Arantor/JBlaze/perplexed.

[Yahmez]

I also think that people need to stop discouraging younger coders who could be future mod authors.

+1
That's my point here.

I just submitted a very simple mod...
Anyone want to take a few shots at me for it? 

*headdesk*

It's not about that. The rules say if it's a valid package then it's allowed.

However, there is a very messed up mindset around what is a mod. Do you consider a smiley pack or an avatar pack to be a true mod? Same deal goes for a few lines of mod; it's not really a modification, it's a tweak.

It's not about that either. This topic was started to notify members of an upcoming mod. Not for a hijack into a discussion on what is or is not a mod, and certainly not to discourage the OP. What a shame that this cannot be discussed somewhere else other than Kcmartz's [WIP] topic. Funny though when I read the board description for 'SMF Coding Discussion' it says 'need help?' not 'need discouraged?' 

I would not upload similar Mods today.

Examples:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2421 - should be a tip/trick.

Thats too bad Ha².

I know two admins that were very happy to see that mod because they don't know a lick of code and cannot do any of the tips & tricks with the code on their own.

Sadly what is being missed in translation is that there are many end users with no real coding experience that rely on some of these (even very simple) mods. When new prospective mod authors are berated like we see here, it hurts the potential author and might dissuade him from helping the community and it also hurts the end users that can never use that 'one line mod' they need... because it was never created. 

[Mick.]

All of the sudden i got weird vibes.  Im no mod maker like the pros here but after reading this thread now i feel my 1-2 mods are just too cheap to be considered mods.   Bummer..

[KensonPlays]

Sorry blue, didn't mean to make you feel that way. Well, what if, like above, admins didn't either know, or like to go into the code to edit it? This would then be helpful. If it doesn't get accepted, either me or labradoodle could put it in one of our sigs (I'd do it), and I or labradoodle could host it somewhere, I would most likely host it on mediafire, i have a account there...

[Mick.]

Sorry blue, didn't mean to make you feel that way. Well, what if, like above, admins didn't either know, or like to go into the code to edit it? This would then be helpful. If it doesn't get accepted, either me or labradoodle could put it in one of our sigs (I'd do it), and I or labradoodle could host it somewhere, I would most likely host it on mediafire, i have a account there...

Its not that KC,  its that i feel if a script is packed, installs right and makes no errors,  then is a mod no matter what size.  1kb or 45kb.

Besides, not everyone that just got his brand new forum, wouldnt know how to open up index.template to look, find and replace manually when it can be uploaded by the push of a button.

Keep learning man.  Maybe tomorrow you can write a 1,000 line mod.

[Nick Whetstone]

I just submitted a very simple mod...
Anyone want to take a few shots at me for it? 

Nope. I'm not trying to discourage people from making "smaller" Mods at all, and I'm sorry if my post came off that way. I never took a shot at anyone that made so-called "smaller" Mods either, which would be hypocritical (like I said) since I made some myself.

   I'm simply stating that, in my opinion, I should not have made those into Mods. Tips/tricks can also have packages attached that can be run through the Package Manager. I just no longer feel it was the most efficient method (submitting and waiting for approval, that is) for those specific Mods.

   For instance, the "Center Post Box" Mod I submitted above was submitted on February 15th. This was during the time where the Cust. team was far understaffed and Customizations were not being approved as often, so it was not approved until March 5th. RC3, which adds the tweak, was released less than 3 days later. Had I simply uploaded a package on a thread here in Coding Discussion (and then moved it to Tips/Tricks when I received TEH POWARZ to do so ), it could have been released even before February 15th (I kept forgetting to upload the package; I would have been less likely to forget had I not had to fill out the entire submission form, but only a topic form). So, let's say I would have released the Tip/Trick on February 10th. It could have benefited RC2 users for nearly a full month, instead of the less-than-three-days that it actually did (though some people are still on RC2, I archived the Mod since it was a security release).

So, my Mod benefited several (possibly even hundreds) fewer people than it would have had I simply posted a Tip with an attached package.

Hope that explains my position better.

[Matthew K.]

Its not that KC,  its that i feel if a script is packed, installs right and makes no errors,  then is a mod no matter what size.  1kb or 45kb.

Besides, not everyone that just got his brand new forum, wouldnt know how to open up index.template to look, find and replace manually when it can be uploaded by the push of a button.

Keep learning man.  Maybe tomorrow you can write a 1,000 line mod.

I definitely agree with this.

[Arantor]

Let me make my attitude plain, since I think a few people are missing what I've been trying to say.

To me, a mod is something that modifies how it actually functions, not just how it looks.

And I get most annoyed with people that publish a ton of tiny tweaks, claim they are mods, and then use that as somehow proof of experience (and yes, I know multiple people do this)

I'm guilty of this too, remember. There's a number of the mods I produced that aren't really mods, definitely in the tweaks category and in hindsight shouldn't have been published on the mod site (remove reply prefix and show unread personal messages being the worst two offenders)

Thing is, if you can write a 5 line hack, you can write a 1,000 line mod, and if you can do that, you can write a 10,000 line mod, and so on. The only difference really is in your mind, it's a perception thing.

In fact, let me expand on it - if you package tiny changes as mods, the following happens:

What it does is this:
* slows down approval of bigger mods
* bulks out your profile with mods that aren't really mods, which means when you go on to bigger things, it actually can hurt your rep (it did mine)
* means you have to wait for approval, when really publishing it in a tip/trick would be more advantageous since it's available immediately, and ready packaged is just a bonus
* makes SMF look less attractive for modders

That last point is weird but very relevant. Most of the mods on the mod site are small theme tweaks. To someone who's new to SMF it can make it look bad that to achieve simple things you have to install a whole mod. I hear people complaining that to get it to look how they want they need to have 50 mods installed.

I've also heard people complain about not wanting to write mods because there are so many little mods out there, and that's also to a point why paid modding just isn't attractive, even aside from all the 'must be free' crap; where there are so many little tiny mods that are better in Tips/Tricks than actually being mods, there is a perception that writing mods must be easy.

[Mick.]

What it does is this:
* slows down approval of bigger mods

So bigger is better?  Since when?

Grab a ticket and wait in line.  We all do it at the meat market.

I still dont agree.   When i first started with SMF, i was told to open templates files here and there and it petrified me every time just because i wanted  to do something out of the tips and tricks boards.   Its much easier with a zip.

[Arantor]

No, I didn't say bigger is better.

I simply said pointed out that if there's a flood of little mods, bigger mods don't even get a look in, let alone starting a review. I know multiple mods that waited weeks for anyone to even look at them because there were a flood of smaller ones.

*headdesk*

I NEVER SAID THEY SHOULDN'T BE PACKAGED.

There's nothing wrong with writing a thread for T&T and packaging it there too. I'm just against publishing them on the mod site when they're not really mods IMO.