The one and ONLY thing SMF needs to be PERFECT.

[Jumpmasterrt]

You can do what you want yes. But that doesn't mean anything you do will be accessible.

Anything? I would venture it would be "not EVERYthing will be accessible".

[ccbtimewiz]

*blinks*

I'm lost. Did I miss something here?

[青山 素子]

I'm lost. Did I miss something here?

Not really, just a topic that got sidetracked into an argument on table-based vs semantic design.

I do agree with Dannii that a semantic design is much more accessible. Semantic designs are much easier to work to meet Section 508 guidelines and the WAI.

The problem with table-based designs is that they are very visually-oriented. This makes things much harder for vision-impaired users and even automated bots.

The vision-impaired users often browse with much larger font settings and often higher-contrast colors. A table-based theme turns into visual soup very easy when enlarged, although full-page zoom helps quite a bit.

The bots will have a much more difficult time parsing your page and determining what goes where in importance, making it more difficult to rank on search engines. Of course, they have experience in dealing with tag soup, but if you can help guide the indexing to your important content, you make it that much easier to rank.



As for table-based themes being easier, it depends on how comfortable one is with CSS and the ability of that person to think in terms of layers and positioning. If you are used to frame-based layout tools like Quark Xpress, you might already have that ability from using those tools. The thing is, styling for layout is much different than using a table-based design, and the ease is based on what you are used to.

Semantic coding requires that you start your page design with an outline and structure your page before touching most of the layout (you can do both at the same time, but it isn't easy). It takes a while to wrap your mind around things the semantic way, but once you do you'll appreciate how flexible and powerful it is.

Even with the awful CSS support in IE6, you can make some awesome designs without touching the underlying HTML code (if that is properly semanticized) all that much or at all. You can even do some really powerful effects. This is why semantic coding is important and a good idea to learn.

[Jumpmasterrt]

Yeah, after discussing this with Dannii in PM's it's now clear to me how many web sites are inaccessible to challenged users. I found a site that analyses websites based on WAI guidelines. http://www.tawdis.net/taw3/cms/en

I agree with Dannii that the CORE should be written with a lot more care (or an accessible friendly version) due to it's unknown deployments. This could in fact open up another facet of theme and mod code development for accessible friendly sites. Using the above analysing tool I analyzed a site using the default theme and SMF core, (http://www.simplemachinesforum.org/community/) and the "errors" were astounding.

It should be understood that this would take an enormous amount of work, I have no idea if it is even feasible, but it could be considered for future releases.

[青山 素子]

It should be understood that this would take an enormous amount of work, I have no idea if it is even feasible, but it could be considered for future releases.

It's being/been considered.

[Eliana Tamerin]

IMHO, SMF is a giant step ahead of many forum softwares in the semantic theming and their accessibility advancements. Not just to users with physical challenges or restrictions but to mobile users and offering a variety of features for pleasing its memberbase.

[Mac_Hines]

I'm lost. Did I miss something here?

...
Semantic coding requires that you start your page design with an outline and structure your page before touching most of the layout (you can do both at the same time, but it isn't easy). It takes a while to wrap your mind around things the semantic way, but once you do you'll appreciate how flexible and powerful it is.

Even with the awful CSS support in IE6, you can make some awesome designs without touching the underlying HTML code (if that is properly semanticized) all that much or at all. You can even do some really powerful effects. This is why semantic coding is important and a good idea to learn.

I could hardly wrap my mind around the issue without such cogent distillation.  That is a great skill.  Thanks as always!

[aldo]

SMF + Web 2.0 Theme <> Good

Lol. I mean, I just can't see any forum of any type having a Web 2.0 theme... unless phpBB3 is one, lol, that default layout sickens me :X

[Eliana Tamerin]

Web 2.0 themes, for the most part, sicken me. They're too glitzy, IMHO.

[yashmaf]

a "web 2.0" theme would be great in the sense that it would (or, should) be easy to customise. that's something i hope the new core theme aims for..

[SleePy]

Well we only can wait to see what the developers have in store

As the developers have mentioned that they are working on more semantic coding, so it would be more easy for anyone to create a web 2.0 theme for SMF.