What's new in SMF 2.0 Beta 4?

[SleePy]

I suppose the only urgent thing is to remove the height: 1% hack, if only for Opera... (It's an IE-only thing, right? Then why not put height: 1% !important; height: auto;?)

Your a beta tester, was that logged that way for a possible solution?
Do you know of any side effects it may have to other browsers as well?

[Nao 尚]

Your a beta tester, was that logged that way for a possible solution?

Yes, sort of...
http://dev.simplemachines.org/mantis/view.php?id=2649
I didn't copy the contents of the topic in the description, though. bloc self-assigned it and that's it so far.

Do you know of any side effects it may have to other browsers as well?

I'm not sure. I mainly test on noisen.com, which has its own custom theme (and even the profile stuff mainly uses Ultimate Profile for the summary's templating), so testing templates isn't exactly my strong area.

Just have a look at my original topic if you'd like, it's really the only time I seriously tested with the updated Core profile layout

[青山 素子]

Edit: I guess there is no possibility to limit smileys nor limit bbc code usage per board (for example disable img-tag on certain boards)?

Use permission profiles.

[Owdy]

How can i limit smilies by permissions?

[青山 素子]

I believe you can limit the use of BBC at least. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[ct1]

When is the final release of 2.x scheduled for without being a beta?

Fonts are to big on default theme.   
Also posts are in signature line and not lining up correctly.

[W. Riker]

When is the final release of 2.x scheduled for without being a beta?

We all want know that...

[babjusi]

When is the final release of 2.x scheduled for without being a beta?

We all want know that...

The official answer to that question is ''It will be ready when it is ready". However, seeing how slow the things have been/are going, I do believe that at least it will be another year before the final release of the 2.0 will be out. Hope I am wrong but I don''t think so.

[青山 素子]

However, seeing how slow the things have been/are going, I do believe that at least it will be another year before the final release of the 2.0 will be out. Hope I am wrong but I don''t think so.

I really doubt it will be another year unless there are some major issues we wind up having.

[Nolt]

Ech lot of other projects release theyr newer versions, only SMF is on last place. Not good for our community. I hope that you will release your 2nd SMF soon. I know that you developing this for free, spend for this your own free time but if you will do this so slow other projects (like phpbb, mybb etc.) will be way ahead than you and our community will die. Nobody want to use old software its normal thing. Dont get me wrong but... its sad but true.

[青山 素子]

I know that you developing this for free, spend for this your own free time but if you will do this so slow other projects (like phpbb, mybb etc.) will be way ahead than you and our community will die.

PHPbb had their 3.0 release in development before we had 1.1 out and didn't release until we were well into 1.1's life. MyBB had a lot smaller changes between their 1.2 and 1.4 release.

Remember that the difference between our 1.1 and 2.0 editions is huge in terms of base. We're going to be supporting different database backends (SQLite, MySQL, and PostgreSQL should be supported at release, possibly others) with a custom-written abstraction layer that reduces the speed impact of that support, a built-in WYSIWYG editor, full-blown moderation center with tiered warning system, built-in paid subscriptions support with an API so you can plug in different providers, even a Search API so you can use tools like Sphinx for searching, etc.

Heck, even in 1.1 we have features that others do not (quick reply is still not core in phpBB 3.0).

Nobody want to use old software its normal thing. Dont get me wrong but... its sad but true.

Those that actually have to run their community for a while know better than to keep switching software unless there is a critical missing piece they must have. It is about stability and not having downtime to upset your community.

Also, we know a lot of people depend on our software, so we want to make sure we get it working right when we ship it. We recently discovered a few possible ways an attacker could cause trouble on our 2.0 software. It's a bit tricky to do, but we want to make sure it won't be possible. As a result, we've delayed our next development release so we can get those fixes in.

[rommul]

Actually, if the team leaders are fair they should accept that they failed big this year. I'm not talking about the developers, they probably are doing the best they can, and they are doing what are told to do.
I speak about project managers and team leaders. How that? 
First, they failed to promote and to develop the SMF community, this year you have less new users, less new posts, and almost no development.
Second, all the time you are saying that smf is free: heck, the smf is basically free, but most of the mods and most of the themes are paid, and are promoted on others team members sites/portals. And that can be understood up to a limit, but hell, there are users you are promoting them and they are few (up to five) free themes and lot of links to their site to sell tons of themes and mods. And you now what: their 3 themes are always the theme of the day, or the favourite mod. Me personally I can't care less, I have two forums both of them with default theme, one with 3 mods, one no mods at all, but for the majority of users here you are suppose to try to convert or attract to SMF, that count. So you should think a different approach
Third the no development part: even all of you are going to say, wow, we are making big steps to the next release  you should be looking of that thru the users eyes. In the 2.0 at least at beta 4 there are no to minimal new faatures for the regular users part. Instead yes there is a great step for the admin panel.
But you forgot something: the SMF community is much younger that the phpbb for example and the most users have new, small to medium forums. At that point they need mostly tools to attract people, features to impress them because the users make forums, not the admins. Maybe you in the team all have big forums, and you need to feel that you are in control, other users have nothing to control, they are missing the users, because smf put on the table less features than other free software's. (again as an example I have a small to medium forums, with ~500k posts and 15k users, and we are only two admin's with 2 moderators for two very limited sections, and our admin/moderate actions are almost invisible, because I respect my users, they are my forum, without them I'll only have a very nicely designed php/mysql web site with 5 visitors, me and few spiders )

I can't imagine a new admin, willing to start a new forums saying: hi people, welcome to my forum, those are my admin tools, and wow look what nice features to moderate you I have.
Instead a new admin should say look at that feature to keep you in touch with my forums and with other users , looks how many tools you have to posts, integrate with your other sites you prefer, look at those features to modify your look as you want and so on. With that kind of attitude people will might start to look at his forum, and so new peoples maybe will be more willing to try SMF and stay with it.

Common people, lets be serious, we all know that you are doing that freely, in your free time and we all respect that, but same the others. Someone who want to be a team member should be OK with the fact that his time will be part dedicated to this community and part dedicated to his own forum or community. If he wants to have a SMF team member badge, he should be earning it. That badge has rights, obligations and commitments. Like everyone else.


sorry, about my bad English, the english is not my first, not even my second language

[metallica48423]

I'll be the first to admit that we have had some missed opportunities, especially in terms of Marketing, in the last year.  I'm not going to blame anyone as it is really a group thing.  Even our visit to OSCON wasn't as good of a thing as it should have been.  This year has been turbulent for SMF, for sure, but I personally have been very involved in pushing things in a better direction.  Its time consuming for sure.  It is one of the reasons I assumed a project management role in November and why we had a slight reorganization of some of the team.  I won't say that there were failures involved though... certainly things that could -- perhaps should -- have happened, but didn't.

I'm not quite sure what your meaning by saying theres only 3 themes on the theme site and hardly any free mods.. *all* of mods on the modsite are free to use and download.... we don't allow paid mods on the modsite.  Now, some ask for donations, true, and some do have paid versions, but those paid versions won't be found on the mod site.  However, we can't really restrict people putting copyrights on their works.  They are legally entitled to copyright their work under US law.  So... i'm not sure how you gather that most of the mods and most of the themes are paid.  And, actually, the number of mod authors has actually increased greatly in the last year, so that is a good thing.  We'll see what comes of it.

Some communities feel that features is the way to keep members happy... some focus on content and the community itself as a means of community growth... it really depends on the people involved.  I suppose it depends on the general viewpoint.  2.0 itself was not necessarily intended to have the latest features -- though it did have some things sorely missing from 1.1... a lot of it is to make a more solid base for building onto, easier to build onto, and easier to hook into the system -- part of our efforts to improve third party development.  I've seen SMF 2.0 referred to as "one big API.." Its sort of funny, actually.  In time, that addition will, with any luck, drastically improve third party development... but it will also, conversely ease the development of new features and whatnot, in time, perhaps leading to reduce development time.

So no, there may be few immediate benefits... but there's more to it than just the features of the software.  I sort of see SMF 2.0 as the start of a better direction for the software.

[bayGaReZ]

I think, new version is coming up for SMF isn't it?

[HecKel]

I have to disagree with something, it's true that the development is very slow, I even remember what Grudge said about SMF 2.0 final, but ****** happens! In the last weeks I was looking at the bug tracker and I have to admit that they return to work again! They are really trying to get SMF 2.0 out ASAP!

About the features, I don't care if they are only admin or user end features, what I don't want is only security upgrades as SMF 1.1.x is, from 1.1 to 2.0 was an HUGE step that I just don't understand, could be softly and faster but no, you decide one HUGE step..., your choice.

[青山 素子]

I have to disagree with something, it's true that the development is very slow, I even remember what Grudge said about SMF 2.0 final, but ****** happens!

Yep, it does. We've had some setbacks that weren't expected that kinda threw off the schedule. First, we had a few developers leave for their own thing. Then, we had the unexpected security issues with 1.1 that made our developers examine the code for 2.0 to make sure those vectors couldn't be used there. They then decided to add a few more safeties to be careful.

Just most recently, we had our development repository (where we track development revisions) down for two days because of server issues. While our developers can still work during that time, they couldn't check any new work in for our beta testers to examine.

In the last weeks I was looking at the bug tracker and I have to admit that they return to work again! They are really trying to get SMF 2.0 out ASAP!

We have one pending thing to land still, and lots of little bugs. We're preparing for RC1 realsoonnow (timeframe to be established), so the bugfixes are being concentrated on.

About the features, I don't care if they are only admin or user end features, what I don't want is only security upgrades as SMF 1.1.x is, from 1.1 to 2.0 was an HUGE step that I just don't understand, could be softly and faster but no, you decide one HUGE step..., your choice.

There are a lot of interface refinements from 1.1 to 2.0. They aren't major things that will smack you in the face, but they will be noticed as you work with the software (anyone notice the new postbox resize feature in the post form?).

[metallica48423]

that is mostly due to the massive infrastructure changes that were needed to spike development and not stagnate or limit it like 1.1 did.  while its true that the step longer... i really do think it needed to happen.  it really is a lot easier to develop for 2.0 than 1.1.

[SleePy]

There is currently 838 themes and 922 mods. All free to download. I would love to see "most" of these paid mods and themes as I have not seen a site bigger than our third party customize site for users to obtain SMF mods/themes.

[uberjon]

way i see it, its not the "directly visible" things that are important, but the indirect things.

such as:

features in the core files that enable easier writing of themes
features in the core files that enable easier writing and installing of mods
features in the core files that (wow i sound like a broken record!) let people integrate custom setups into the forums (i.e. through SSI)

what matters is the ability to customize (for a large majority) if feature XYZ is available from a mod easily. vs manual code edits for php and templates.. people tend to be happier..

i for one would not be here right now, looking to switch from VB if i couldn't have easily integrated my "system (custom code)" into the forums.. the ease of SSI in 2.0 (not sure about 1.1....) makes what i need possible (so far)

[metallica48423]

I see it this way: you have to lay down -- 1.1 -- and reinforce the foundation -- 2.0 -- before you can build the house -- 2.0 and beyond.