An SMF CMS?

[CarLBanks]

I wouldn't have use for a CMS. I use Wodpress, SMF, and G2 so I'm fine.

[destalk]

I'd love a CSM for SMF. But the simpler the better.

I build forum sites and, if they are successful, then I like to add other content. Such as news, reviews a links directory etc. But slowly. So it would be nice to be able to add a little bit at a time, rather than bolt a huge top heavy CMS on top of the thing and overwhelm both the users and the editors.

The problem wirth most CMS is that they are sooooo complex that most normal people give up on them. There are blocks and menus and calendars and this and that...

I know that it is very tempting to add loads of features and try to please everybody, but that results in a huge mess. I was on another forum the other day where practically everyone who contributed to the thread had given up on CMS because of the steep learning curve. Bear in mind that this was a web designers, developers, marketeers and content managers forum - more at the business end than the development end. Even Mambo is far too complex in my opinion - and Mambo is one of the best.

Subdreamer is as close to perfect as I've found, but expensive. But its simplicity/elegance of use is unique in many ways. Now, all that's needed is the SMF simple touch.

[ping]

Destalk, I'm with you on adding stuff slowly. I've had a forum for several years that I want to add stuff to, but I don't have tons of free time, so I'd like to be able to take it slowly. Of course, most of the full CM systems I've looked at have the option to turn off what you're not using, but .... it just doesn't seem the same.

[destalk]

 Hi Ping

Yes, you can switch off what you don't want usually. But, even with Mambo, it seems such a convaluted process, that I get dizzy. What would be ideal is if there were two installation options. One to install everything and work backwards removing what you don't want. And another option to install just a very basic CMS - perhaps just a single news page and a menu button - and then add features as time goes on. I prefer the latter option.

[davo88]

Have you had a look at Bloc's TinyPortal? - http://www.bloczone.net/smf/index.php.

I've tried several portal/CMS including Mambo and MkPortal. TinyPortal is beautifully simple. Well worth a look.

[ping]

That's pretty spiff! Though I confess I am in the beta stages on enough projects right now that I will probably wait for it to get a little more full-fledged before I tackle adding it on. Probably.

[destalk]

Have you had a look at Bloc's TinyPortal? - http://www.bloczone.net/smf/index.php.

I've tried several portal/CMS including Mambo and MkPortal. TinyPortal is beautifully simple. Well worth a look.

Yes, I've beta tested it a couple of times and I'm a huge fan of Bloc's work. But it's still in early days.

[CP]

I think an SMF CMS being developed is a great idea, and I wanted to encourage that it is actually fully integrated with SMF for those who choose the CMS.  The main issue with many CMS systems is that the forum component is usually developed by a different team and not part of the CMS itself, so you have integration issues with it, style issues with it, etc.

I would use an SMF CMS in a heartbeat if SMF were fully integrated and part of the CMS on the get go without my having to get it to work, get the themes to match, etc.  Synching up styles easily to where a style added to the CMS fully changes the forum theme would be great.  For true simplicity as most CMS do add a forum community, having SMF integrate as part of the CMS itself would be fabulous.

I also think that if you keep a similar admin system to SMF that would help users in SMF to easily transition to using the CMS if they choose that option.  I don't see why the CMS couldn't have a forum-type feel for the admin area where you could have just more CMS type options than a forum does.

DITTO!
I am a fan and user of many portals and CMS products. If anyone can achieve this project SMF can! They had a opportunity once... until a not so smart fellow introduced a thief into the mix and screwed things up for everybody (*sigh).... anyway, GO SMF.. GO!!

[Borys Pomianek]

Well its a pitty that most people dont understand the term open-source.

Opensource means only this thing: Open Source.
It means that the source code is the for you to look in to and change it.

That does not mean that you cant have compiled open source projects or that you have to use languages developed by the open source community.

Maby iam a little harsh but to be honest the best software that i ever used where not open source.
Photoshop CE, Corel Draw 11, 3dsmax 7, MacOS X, Windows XP (and yes i think its a really good operating system), Winamp, Truevison3D...

Ofcourse there is a lot of opensource community made software/languages that i use:

Firefox, Thunderbird, Apache, mySQL, PHP...

But to be honest if i would have the money to buy for instance Zeus instead of using Apache or to use POSTRESQL ( or how you write that ) or any other "Big" things i would do that.

Its in my opinion impossible to create good software without good funding. Even if thousand of programmers can spend 1 hour a day on a project it would be better to have 100 programmers that can spend 8 hours a day with very good managment becouse open source - FREE projects lack management and without management you dont have good aps.

Being a great programmer, great artist etc. is not enought to create a big app. Even if your the best out there you just dont have enought time or money.

Its very hard to manage a team of people without paying them. You dont have any ways to motivate those people nor ways to manage deadlines.

Look at Lewis Media. If SMF was the only thing they do it for sure would not be that great becouse it would lack funding.

BP

[[Unknown]]

But to be honest if i would have the money to buy for instance Zeus instead of using Apache or to use POSTRESQL ( or how you write that ) or any other "Big" things i would do that.

PostgreSQL is free and open source too.

Look at Lewis Media. If SMF was the only thing they do it for sure would not be that great becouse it would lack funding.

I'm afraid that's not exactly true.

-[Unknown]

[Ivan Minic]

If you need designers, count me in

[Dannii]

Its in my opinion impossible to create good software without good funding. Even if thousand of programmers can spend 1 hour a day on a project it would be better to have 100 programmers that can spend 8 hours a day with very good managment becouse open source - FREE projects lack management and without management you dont have good aps.

That's why there is sourceforge, and other organisations, and why people have created massively complicated CVS systems. Look at Debian Linux. Anyone could write something for it, but could it be put in the official release? Not until its passed numerous tests and they make sure it works on a hundred different system set ups. Compare that to microsoft where they'll include it even if it doesn't work properly. Of course everything has hidden bugs, but some are very obvious.

[Borys Pomianek]

But it still has funding. You need serwers, maintance for it, people that manage everything etc.

You dont create software without loosing money.
Even if you can work for free for 8 hours a day you have to eat something too.

Opensource community is a great thing but you cant say that it can be compared to large companies that are focused on something diffrend than what you talk about.

Windows is not to be compared with debian linux. I Dont like linux becouse as an os its a bad design imho. I dont have time to change everything everytime i want to make something differend in my os.

I used Debian on a dedicated serwer a yeer ago and administering it via schell was a big pain. It dint work the way it should and it had lots of bugs. I could not for instance make TCL.

I understand that you love opensource and that its your only thing in life maby but not everybody is a programmer that is interested in programming and have apps like gimp and think that its as powerfull as photoshop or use apache and think that it can be as powerfull as some commercial serwer technology that can run even big clasters and has special aps to manage it.

And i would like to ask people if they tell that something is not true to tell why its not true. Ive seen what you guys do for money so you cant say you dont do anything for money. Give me an example of an app with no funding that is really good.

And just for your information one fact:
phpBB group uses dedicated serwers for theyr website and they use Zeus serwer instead of apache that they used when theyr where starting the website.

It abvious that iam gona be flamed here becouse i dont like php and apache etc.
Ive seen before in this topic where someone sad that you can use java and servlets etc.
That was actually a great idea becouse its a lot more innovative than using php.
And this is very stupid to say that that would make less customers. Most of the virtual serwers out there support tomcat and other technology not only php and mySQL. To your knowledge every big hosting company in my country supports at least mySQL, postgreSQL and other type of databases along with those not opensource.

I olso understand that this topic is pointless for any biger customer becouse even if you create the next big thing in cms it will still be php with mySQL and if you dont know the flaws of php then you for sure wont develope a great app and only the next Mambo wich is a cool thing but still not suited for someone that needs things that can really on.

BP

[bloc]

I olso understand that this topic is pointless for any biger customer becouse even if you create the next big thing in cms it will still be php with mySQL and if you dont know the flaws of php then you for sure wont develope a great app and only the next Mambo wich is a cool thing but still not suited for someone that needs things that can really on.

BP

I am probably not the best to argue..but it always takes money to do something , that true..BUT I think most people doing open-source don't rely on that for their income. So the development is from their willingness rather than needingness.

Anyway..I am curious, what are the flaws of PHP?

[[Unknown]]

The point is this:

  - if the server is not dedicated, it's highly likely it will have MySQL and PHP.
  - if the server is dedicated, it is likely PHP and MySQL will be installed.
  - if the server is dedicated and without either PHP or MySQL, it is likely they can install PHP and/or MySQL.

So where's the loss?  But let's look at Tomcat:

  - if the server is not dedicated, it's highly likely it will not have Tomcat.
  - if the server is dedicated, it is likely Tomcat will not already be installed.
  - if the server is dedicated and without Tomcat, it is likely they can install Tomcat.

This is better... why?  I recognize it is better if you think Tomcat is, by and of itself, a goal.  I do not agree here, and that is a matter of opinion.  So you won't get anywhere with that.

It is also true that it takes more knowledge, experience, and intellegence to administrate a Linux server.  But then, it also takes more of those things to be a doctor than a nurse.  Do you want heart surgery from the doctor, or the nurse?

-[Unknown]

[Borys Pomianek]

Its not a matter of intelligence nor knowledge but a matter of time. If i dont have time to learn linux and to read all the documentation where is what even if its the best os on the planet its alos the less usable in my situation becouse i dont have the time.

Also a doctor and a nurse does not do the same things and this is what you forgot about. If a nurse costs less to hire ( so you loose less time that you would need to spend on working for that money ) and is good for what you need there is no point in hiring a doctor.
A more acurate story would be: Why become a doctor when you need the skill to take blood samples only becouse the main thing that you do is research and you dont need to know how to do heart surgery.

If i will try geting another dedicated server for sure i will chose windows serwer or mac serwer or anything with a gui.

Also many host providers can install tomcat on demand without any problem and java is becoming a standard to have on your serwer.
Also java is compiled. php no.
It is not possible to create using php for instance a full fledged gui for a cms, and you can do that using java and as one olready said here you would only need jre in your browser for administration.

But the main point that iam making here is whats the point of using complicated tools when the time to learn to use them efectively and to customize them to your needs is the same or bigger than the time you need to create everything from scratch. If i need a texteditor its a lot easier to install windows and use word 2000 than to compile linux and then spend a lot of time serching for that one file where you can change that thing you olways needed to download the package that will let you finally use that text editor you wanted that you olso need to compile using tools that you first have to download...
Even if in the end you get something "better"  by the time you get there i will finish all the things i needed done on windows. Thats the strenght of windows for instance. The strenght of Zeus serwer is that you get a client app that you run on your dekstop do manage your serwers elsewhere along with other apps to acces on your serwers for management.

And if that lets for instance an artist manage his own serwer about art without hiring a specialist for it its a great investment becouse you pay more on the start but you save a lot more later.

If you know who Jef Raskin was and other people like him you know what iam talking about.

We can olways get back to the point where a computer could be only used by a programmer.

BP

[Kindred]

There is one MAJOR flaw (as well as a host of minor ones) with your logic here...

The glory of Open Source is that it can be easily customized.  If I want Feature-X, either I can pay someone to make it, or I can make it myself...  but Joe-schmoe, on his site, doesn't want that...   and doens't have to pay for it, doesn't have to use server-overhead for it and doesn't install it.

Let's take one of your previous examples...  Photoshop.   There are hundreds of functions that I just don't use in Photoshop. Honestly, I would LOVE to be able to get a trimmed down version that doesn't take as much of my system resources and does essentially, just what I want.   However, that is not possible.  I am stuck with what Adobe thinks is the "standard".



I had this issue way back when... when I started with dial-up BBSing.  I started with Wildcat from Mustang software.   After 1 month, I switched to WWIV. Why?   Because WWIV offered the source code (then in Pascal) with registration. I could customize my BBS, easily... with my own mods or with mods from other SysOps who ran the software.

And your rebuttal to [unknown] about the nurse/doctor doesn't stand up...   
You're right, doctors and nurses don't do exactly the same thing...  however, most doctors can ACT as a nurse, if it's needed (at leats they have the training to do so).   Nurses, however can NOT act as a doctor... no way, no how.

[[Unknown]]

(nor do Windows and Linux do the same thing.)

Edit: and to clarify, that's what I mean.  Nurses are generally good at what they do, and better nurses than doctors would be.  But, I still wouldn't want a nurse to do heart surgery: nurses just aren't good at that.  Now, take my above and replace "nurses" with "Windows" and "do heart surgery" with "host my website".

You only helped prove my point.  Most people hire a professional when it comes to important things, not the cheapest slob they can find.  And the fact that Windows Server costs a few grand (although Web Server is much cheaper) and Linux is free... helps offset that a bit.

-[Unknown]

[Borys Pomianek]

Yes but i can make this decision:
Hire a pro that will use linux on my serwer.
Work ony me own using windows on my serwer.

And when i can have windows serwer for 20$ additional bucks at most hosting companys it might be just cheaper.

BP

[bloc]

PHP/mysql is gaining popularity fast..and there must a reason for that.