Recent Travails of SMF Team and Friends

[Akyhne]

Quoted from somewhere:

A true leader knows when to step down, even if they've done nothing wrong.

Since i joined the team 8 months ago, more than 20 team members left the project. I know for a fact, most left due to poor management and the recent hijacking of the project.
Is a few leaders worth that? No matter if they are right or wrong, I'd say no.

[godboko]

Something doesn't jive here, no accountant would ever recommend shielding tax laws, ever. Well no certified accountant would. The accountant might recommend changing corporate structure to achieve a more favorable tax rate.

The only accountant that would recommend you take a salary is your personal accountant, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

That's what many of us have said as well, and even Amy just told us that the costs were approx. The same, so why bother even?

[stardx]

Yes, I think such a poll is a very bad idea because at best you'll have the people who actually have some idea of what's going on involved, and at worst you have everyone who has NO idea involved voting because of what little is public knowledge.

welcome to democracy 

[Eliana Tamerin]

My whole point is Don't make these sorts of allegations over each other in public,something is know as site image which everyone must maintain.

This is exactly what happened for a number of years. Team members left the project quietly, for the most part, and didn't cause a fuss. Essentially, they spoke with their feet. The buildup of tension over those years is what you see exploding now, this isn't some overreaction to a single event or decision. The issues which caused the problems were routinely discussed between Friends and team, with very little progress in the past.

[CountryLady]

SMF has come to a rough patch for sure, and it is a sad state of affairs.

For the leadership on all levels to expect the members of the community they serve to stand silent on matters that affect their lives & businesses, while said 'leadership' proceeds to trash each other AND the well-being of the project/community itself is unacceptable and contrary to the overall well-being of said project/community. And NO, I am not just jumping into the fray. Here is why I say this...

Every organization is 'at risk' from a variety of problems, such as how to handle the business if a tornado were to destroy the documents and structure that houses them, what to do if a member of the mgmt team were to die, how to go about contending with a leader who has conflicts of interest, what to do if a member of the core leadership were to become mentally unstable, what is the best way to limit the damage of leaders who have lost the trust of the workers, membership, and the end users of the many SMF forums? When risk mitigation is not built into a project/community's foundation, it loses its flexibility and its leader's ability to lead, manage and guide the community back to stability is lost.

Rarely is a problem any ONE person's fault. However a community problem that cannot be successfully resolved in a way that publicly demonstrates stability, fairness and integrity for all who contribute to it, has already failed. The reasons WHY is fodder for future discussion, but a successful remedy needs to be found and implemented immediately.

When a community leader 'refuses to acknowledge' that they are no longer able to successfully lead the community, there must be a process that can quickly minimize the resulting damage that the ineffective leadership causes. Problems that are not attended to quickly and efficiently will create additional problems, and the downward spiral generally results in the destruction of the community as a whole.

Those who created SMF hold the key to the SMF Community's well-being. They are the ones who deeply understand the Spirit of SMF and they must be called upon to preserve and protect the core mission of the community so that the members needs are met. This is a TRUST issue, and the MEMBERS of the SMF Community owe it to the leadership to adequately communicate what it will take to assure their CONFIDENCE in the SMF Project/Community. Therefore I believe it IS my responsibility as a member to speak up, clearly, without emotion, or attacking individual people, in order to encourage those ultimately responsible for SMF's success to take action quickly to insure their forum's continued success.

If those who created SMF did not properly protect the community from mis-management when they originally setup the SMF organization as an Open Source project, they should be allowed, if not required, to step forward and do so immediately. Let the lawyers or a Mediation Team work out the aches and pains of this current fiasco. No community can last without having that degree of protection, and those who started and built SMF, who convinced the public to 'believe in SMF' as a software and as a productive community project have a DUTY to rise to the occasion and swiftly resolve this conflict BEFORE the community is irreversibly damaged.

This is not about demanding anyone step down, but is totally about maintaining the trust of the workers, membership/users, and the participants in the SMF forums around the world. MANY people have given their time, effort and energy to SMF. It would be beyond insulting to abuse the gift of their talent and time by minimizing their contributions and ignoring their needs now.

Please understand that this is not a matter of 'taking sides'. This is a matter of personal integrity, of successfully earning and keeping the trust of those who use SMF, and of proper business management for the continuity of the overall SMF project/community. SMF is a TEAM effort and in my opinion needs to have a Core Advisory Team to prevent leadership matters from becoming entangled in emotions, personality, etc. Problems will ALWAYS come up in every organization, and in the end, no one person should have absolute power over an Open Source Project, or be/feel irreplaceable.

SMF belongs to ALL of us.

Thank you for hearing my perspective.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

CountryLady - I thinks I loves ya

[TurtleKicker]

I want the negotiations to work, I really do. But what little optimism I had vanished after reading  Amy's post.

I guess I don't see, within her words, what room there is for any sort of negotiations to accomplish anything. Negotiations require a willingness to compromise, a willingness to admit one's own wrongdoings, and a willingness to reach out and work the opposing team towards the greater good, putting the needs of the many over the desires of the few.

There is none of that in Amy's post, unfortunately.

I am willing to wait, but please... someone give me a sign that the waiting has hope. Amy's post, and its rebuttal by people who (unlike me and most of us) are in the know, just seem to re-emphasize earlier feelings that there is only one solution to the problem, but that solution won't happen because the person with all the power won't let it.

I have the utmost respect for those involved with the negotiations, but they can only work within the confines of the power and leeway they are given by the one person who has sole, complete and absolute power. Otherwise it's just a PR distraction.

[Tony Reid]

I think its important to realise that the community will not be a loser in this situation.

SMF is unlikely to die, worst case scenario is that development is further delayed. My only concern if that happens is the speed of security updates... there are still outstanding security issues from October last year.

If negotiations fail - which (in my opinion) is looking like they will fail, then the SMF friends will certainly not let the community down.

Either way - the SMF community will be looked after.

[~DS~]

Amacythe's post clearly show contradictions.

[ForumGuy789]

Honestly, the only people that REALLY REALLY matter in this project are the coders.

Everyone else is highly replaceable and expendable. Some of you may not want to hear that but it's the truth. Anyone can write some docs or give forum support but not just anyone can write good clean and safe code.

That isn't to say non-coders are not helping out the community greatly. But the coders should really be considered the most important asset to keep in all of this.

So basically, I support whatever option that will keep the most, best coders around. Everything else is just self-important politics and a waste of time.

I'm not sure what faction can keep the most coders around but that's all you people need to figure out!

But looking at the "accomplishments" Amy posted I'm not impressed. Over 3+ years it looks like all you did was set up some servers. Organizing meetings is not something to brag about. Sure it's nice, but let's be realistic here.. WE NEED CODERS not Martha Stewart.

So, IMO Amy is highly expendable. But if her faction keeps the most Coders than she should stay. If the other faction keeps the most Coders then they should definitely win out here.

All that matters is Programmers.

[Nibogo]

But looking at the "accomplishments" Amy posted I'm not impressed. Over 3+ years it looks like all you did was set up some servers. Organizing meetings is not something to brag about. Sure it's nice, but let's be realistic here.. WE NEED CODERS not Martha Stewart.

x2

I would also like to know why SMF 2 is taking so long to be developed.

As you can see in the Team page there are only 4 Developers and one of them is On Hiatus so actually 3 developers for such a big project isn't enought, as you can see in other big projects like MyBB, phpbb, Joomla...They have more than 5 developers and that is actually obvious and you should count that actually a lot of great SMF developers aren't in the team due to the issues with the current Project Manager like JayBachatero, Thantos, Unknown...

[~DS~]

But looking at the "accomplishments" Amy posted I'm not impressed. Over 3+ years it looks like all you did was set up some servers. Organizing meetings is not something to brag about. Sure it's nice, but let's be realistic here.. WE NEED CODERS not Martha Stewart.

x2

LOL, Martha Stewart
x3

[Rowdy]

Disgusting to see all this altruistic nonsense thrown around about who sacrificed themselves more for the software, as if whoever destroys their own life for charity to the greatest extent is the most noble.

No wonder support on this site has dropped off so steeply the last few years. Its to the point now where the last support request I made got me a rude command to write a mod to do what I asked is possible or not and then you have "associates" of the community who attack their own users. if you report such a post, you are ignored. If you respond, you are censored.

No one matters but the coders, eh? I guess that shows the attitude in operation.

[青山 素子]

I hate to say, but I'm a bit disappointed by the post as well. I do understand the need to defend one's self with all the bad stuff going around in public, maybe only half of it true (with a very loose definition of "true"), but one also needs to look reasonable, and that wasn't shown.

I think on both sides of the matter there are people who are so determined to prove they are "right" that they will do anything they can to achieve that goal. They may not want to kill the SMF community, but they aren't seeing that their pursuit of their goal tramples all over the project.

Both sides have committed poor actions and both sides also need to realize that they must compromise to save the project they claim to love. I see too many people taking a hardliner stance of ultimatum, but that won't serve anything because their minds are closed to any other possible solution.

Please, for the love of SMF, both sides please be prepared to give on a few points to save the project. Campaigning to force Amy out won't achieve anything but anger and a further hardening of positions. You feel it may prove you right, but it's a road to failure. Rather, aim to reduce the influence she can have in the areas you have a problem with her being. Get some more managing partners added, work on finding the right company structure for the project to survive, and leave the ultimatums at the door.

The problems didn't occur overnight and they won't be solved instantly or by any one action.

[Eliana Tamerin]

Honestly, the only people that REALLY REALLY matter in this project are the coders.

No one is irreplaceable. Even Joseph Fung and Jeff Lewis, who coded YABBSE into php/mysql from the original YABB in perl, or [Unknown] who wrote most of SMF 1.0, were irreplaceable. They left, and the project survived. The same can happen for any developer, any project manager, any team member.

[Arantor]

I would point out that also pissing off the current team - and possible future developers (I was considered, note) - is not really a way to go.

[ForumGuy789]

No one matters but the coders, eh? I guess that shows the attitude in operation.

You're just here to troll because no one liked your attempt to bring in ridiculous non-SMF politics into the discussion. You fail, move on.

And yes, No one... NO ONE.. matters but the programmers. Everyone else in the team is just there to support them. Let's be realistic. SMF is a program after all!

Oh also I'm just a user like you, so your comment about "this shows the attitude in operation" makes about as much sense as your other posts.

[Arantor]

ForumGuy789: Not even potential members of the programmers' team? People to join the ranks and help the program grow?

Oh, and I won't disagree about the trolling comment, eh, weightman?

[ForumGuy789]

Honestly, the only people that REALLY REALLY matter in this project are the coders.

No one is irreplaceable. Even Joseph Fung and Jeff Lewis, who coded YABBSE into php/mysql from the original YABB in perl, or [Unknown] who wrote most of SMF 1.0, were irreplaceable. They left, and the project survived. The same can happen for any developer, any project manager, any team member.

True enough, coders can be replaced, but the process of replacing the core development team is much more difficult than replacing other team members.

Your only real assets are your coders. I'd work this situation with that in mind. But that's just my opinion I suppose.. but it makes a lot of common sense to me.

Arantor, potential members of the programming team are important as well. But I'm just saying that this whole discussion should be focusing on the programmers, current and future. What option will bring the best programmers in both short-term and long-term. Current programmers are the most important asset IMO though. And if all programmers on all sides could stay that'd be the best option obviously.

I tend to sound too harsh when posting sometimes so will try to refrain from posting much more on this. It's just hard not to throw around an opinion now that you've brought it into the public arena.