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Author Topic: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!  (Read 28073 times)

Offline Deaks

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2016, 01:59:58 PM »
stupid autocorrect...

At least it did not autocorrect to something rude :P

Offline Colin

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Offline Irisado

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2016, 04:03:56 PM »
Besides for one being about posting and one being about an avatar

A very salient caveat, which highlights that the point you were making was not correct.  Just to be clear though:

There is a precedent, you and I both know that there is, we have both done such action previously.

There is no record of which I am aware to suggest that someone had their post count boosted solely because they wanted to be able to upload an avatar.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 04:17:32 PM by Irisado »
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2016, 04:16:11 PM »
I see nothing has changed since I left the team, where everything is discussed to death and nothing ever gets done.

 


Offline 青山 素子

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2016, 05:19:51 PM »
While there have been several instances where a forum admin would bump post count for an indvidual, it was usually over an issue with something functional (verification, manage e-mail notifications, etc) rather than decorative.

There is not a rule that all requests must be acted upon in an affirmative manner. It is up to the admin as to if the request is reasonable given the reason. It seems several of the admins feel that wanting to add an avatar isn't a good enough reason for manually bumping a user post count. Personally, I agree with that decision.
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Offline Arantor

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2016, 05:45:15 PM »
Wahoo

https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/pull/3744

Interesting that the team has chosen to ignore its own long-standing policy to limit third-party APIs, and to keep putting new features in this late in the day. Small wonder it's 5 years since 2.1 was started and the third beta isn't out yet.

Also interesting that people think it's less irritating than questions, when my experience of the past few years trying both has shown to go the other way. 'Pick all the squares that contain sushi'... yeah, pick any 3 of the squares that look vaguely like they might contain it.

I also assume that it will be in use here almost immediately, which means you might finally get less spam here even though the tools were made available a couple of years ago to do the whole question thing.
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Offline Kindred

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2016, 07:06:51 PM »
Arantor,

the one issue with the questions on this site remains the languages...  Yes, we could implement your back-port mod. However, then we have to write 20+ questions AND have the translated.

So yes...   we've decided to move past my initial disagreements with the third party, since reCPATCHA seems to be something that can be implemented faster than getting the questions written and translated
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline Deaks

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2016, 07:29:33 PM »
I may be a wee bit outdated on it but is recaptcha not easier to crack as its more common?

Offline nend

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2016, 07:56:44 PM »
However, then we have to write 20+ questions AND have the translated.
Then a month later write 20+ more questions and have them translated as the previous questions will have been harvested by then.

I may be a wee bit outdated on it but is recaptcha not easier to crack as its more common?
It does have its negatives as the spammers no longer make the forum look busier. O:)

Offline Arantor

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2016, 02:37:54 AM »
Arantor,

the one issue with the questions on this site remains the languages...  Yes, we could implement your back-port mod. However, then we have to write 20+ questions AND have the translated.

So yes...   we've decided to move past my initial disagreements with the third party, since reCPATCHA seems to be something that can be implemented faster than getting the questions written and translated

Because you couldn't have organised that in the last two years?
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

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Offline Irisado

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2016, 05:35:18 AM »
There simply are not enough translators to translate questions into all the languages which would be needed, and that has been the case for a number of years now.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Sandman1

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2016, 09:54:00 AM »
We don't increase post counts just to facilitate the uploading of an avatar.  Once you have made ten legitimate posts (i.e. not spam replies or topics) you will be able to upload your own :).

Do I really need to make ten legitimate posts in order to upload an avatar on the 2000 AD Online Forum? I don't have any interest for this site.

Offline Arantor

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2016, 10:33:21 AM »
No, you only need to make 10 posts to have an avatar here. We don't run the 2000 AD forum, we just provided the software.

You should probably contact their admin team or post on their forum, we cannot help you.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline Arantor

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2016, 10:36:43 AM »
There simply are not enough translators to translate questions into all the languages which would be needed, and that has been the case for a number of years now.

Great, so I wasted all that time and effort for nothing, good to know. I continue to be amazed at how disorganised the team is. Because you couldn't, say, spend a small amount of money paying a translation firm or anything. Or even Google Translate as a fallback. Or indeed pretty much anything except what was actually done.

You also should advise the team to stop recommending anti spam questions since it's somewhat in the vein of "do as I say not do as I do".
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline Kindred

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2016, 12:18:17 PM »
Why? Anti-spam questions are effective... and on a single language site, they are nearly perfect...   even on a multilanguage site, they are good, with your mod, if the admin can translate the questions themself...   but here, it becomes exponentially more difficult, given the number of languages we still technically support

and no... you didn't waste your time.  That mod is in use in many places... I use it on several of my sites. :D
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline Margus

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?! / Captcha / reCAPTCHA / s
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2017, 01:08:00 PM »
/a little rant top of it, please do not take it personally but this mistake is global/

What kind of BAD behavor is that by mod, that they close the topics as nothing and  point  at best to the another closed topic by taking  time telling "there is another post about it, take time to search" ( http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=552467.0 why not point to HERE?
Is this somekind of bad joke? Final closing post Have to have link to correct forum, this is so elementary why it needs to be told even? And on this same closed topic was already mentioned, that this issue did not come out in search, bdw)

posting, linking a link to a post where correct topic is, is  what  normal people would do who want to help.

Point, philosophy of SMF is Whole, making things most easy not forcing people to search and look around in sircles in hope they not find. This is not some linux mindset that some try to keep "we try to make things harded then maybe people learn". No they just choose another thing that works. I not, as i love SMF forum or linux 10+ year ago, but most others would in instant.


When board name is about "verification" and people are searching "Captcha" then these posts nessesarily do not come up in search, as other people who made same mistake noticed. I searched, i also did not see. Now after mentioning many times, they do perhaps as i added these words to subject.


And how long is this known issue been, 5 years, 7 ??

No these chaptas DO NOT need to be translated, English for starters is ENOUGHT, at least something functional. There is thousands of languages, you can not hold development back in English based software with excuses we not have translations, People have something that works in english radher then something that stops their usage of software completly, and after all, current Captcha ONLY stops humans as it seems, it is made against humans in current situation, not against rbots.

Main point:

Here is one great japanese  guy http://www.animeneko.net/projects/smf/recaptcha-for-smf/ [nofollow]  google reCAPTCHA work (out of many in modding section), just write to him, and base your work on it. It just needs little bit fixes at best. If there is something withot google eyes, maybe even better, maye.

Just replace for god sake this thing for starters in here with ANYTHING, this what for the mods was made and Your modding  system that makes easy to change parts of forum functions, this is one CORE feature, please use it!
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=213535.780


Just insane, that complete noobs have to tell professionals these kind of things, over and over again.
Try yourself few times solve these Captcha, then you know the frustruration. And huge amount  of people it has been keep away from SMF.

oh, and now 10, 15 times solving this Captcha, if i am lucky (as audio does not play on my pc)

/edit, oh sorry it is You Motoko-chan, to irritated to notice!

Offline Margus

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2017, 01:30:18 PM »
point was, that on chritical things like that, make temporally fix (yes not most popular idea) ON YOUR OWN MAIN FORUM and then work on real fix, for entire software if needed. It is shame when software promoting forum it self have epic simple failure like this, for years. (kind of like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMToNsCyFQU [nofollow] but more, you get the point)

(well it seems i have been lucky solving this chapta now, or maybe eyes getting more used to, only taking few, 5 times now, getting to be pro.. but remeberthe rage at first.. not even remeber what i wanted originally post)

Offline Arantor

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2017, 01:35:14 PM »
Quote
Is this somekind of bad joke?

No, it's simply frustration on the moderator's part because this is asked so frequently that people are tired of answering the question, when there's 100 other threads on the same subject.

Quote
Point, philosophy of SMF is Whole

I would not make such bold claims about what SMF's philosophy is or is not - and I've been a team member, I've even been part of the development team itself - and I would be wary of asserting what the official philosophy is.

Quote
No these chaptas DO NOT need to be translated

Given that the recommendation for years now has been to use questions & answers rather than a CAPTCHA, they do need to be translated. Otherwise the odds of getting the right answer are rather low (or it's too easy for bots to just search on Google, yes, bots do that now)

And there's the problem. SMF 2.0 doesn't support translations for Q&A, though I did make a mod in 2014 for it, but apparently it's been too hard getting translations for Q&A (and no, Google Translate can't be used because then you'd have the same problem as before)

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google reCAPTCHA work

There's also the small matter of 'now we have to maintain it when they change their API' and the even more complex matter of 'given that it's possible to buy 1000 solved reCAPTCHAs for $1', it suddenly starts to be less of a magic solution.

That said, 2.1 uses reCAPTCHA (much to my disgust on the subject when the tools for solving this were implemented back in 2014)

Quote
Try yourself few times solve these Captcha, then you know the frustruration. And huge amount  of people it has been keep away from SMF.

It's also the fact that it keeps away the spam too. How many spammers do you think get through here? (It's currently about 3/day. Using reCAPTCHA probably will make that problem worse, not better)

Quote
point was, that on chritical things like that, make temporally fix ON YOUR OWN MAIN FORUM

Do you support dozens of languages? On your forum, using Q&A is probably an option. It definitely is on mine. But it isn't here, so the best - and recommended - solution isn't an option for reasons already outlined.
Don’t try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person. You haven’t had enough to know what it’s like.

No good deed goes unpunished / No act of charity goes unresented.

Offline Margus

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2017, 02:03:29 PM »
Arantor, fair answers, but still, take the blame also.

Just fallowup thoughts,

Spammers not coming here on massive assult all the time as it is not a high target for spam, what to sale here, accident when they come as there is to many techiical people to beat them off in instant.
 As it has been told, this chapta is passed as nothing when they Want to come.

You not have to be afraid of spammers as much as afraid scaring people away.

Who will start to buy chaptas to break in to here, for what reason? 5 Minute fame?

Well, strange You missed whole point of SMF while being a teammember, what You mean there is no official philosophy?
Get things gone as Easy and as little effort, clean, safe, simple, as possible. Is the point.

was it not recuired to understand what "simple Machines" means, the logo it self gives an hint:

A simple machine is a mechanical device that changes the direction or magnitude of a force.  In general, they can be defined as the simplest mechanisms that use mechanical advantage (also called leverage) to multiply force.  Usually the term refers to the six classical simple machines which were defined by Renaissance scientists:
    Lever
    Wheel and axle
    Pulley
    Inclined plane
    Wedge
    Screw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_machine [nofollow]



Where Do You think the forum get the name and logo from? (?)

I am sure You can have talk with  Joseph Fung and Jeff Lewis about it if simple the name and logo does not ring the bells: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=208875.0

You can Use LOGICAL questions, math, (we still talking about THIS forum here, imidiate fix, that is not highest target for spammers) how hard is for spammers to get the question answer base and use it? 
Anyway, how many words there is to translate (if it is actual idea, that SMF go for sure, the WORK link should be added to topic all the time, so people can pick it up, only way to speed it up + looking people from language forums who do it for free), i can do the Estonian part.

And for end sentance do not say "what is outlined" but as long telling this, takes time: WHAT IS THE FINAL PLAN.
It is so liberal way always to say that it has been told, instead telling what needs to be told.

Offline CoreISP

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Re: How do we get rid of the annoying verification?!
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2017, 02:29:22 PM »
Quote
Spammers not coming here on massive assult all the time as it is not a high target for spam

Yeahhh... Our banhammers and firewalls vehemently disagree with you.

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how hard is for spammers to get the question answer base and use it?

For math questions? Like half a second at maximum (and that's already generously high.) including interpreting and submitting it, independently.


As has been said, we understand the annoyance with the captcha and are working on it.
There's no further information on that for now, so kindly be patient.
Moreover, as has been indicated - you may request your post-count to be raised to circumvent it. Considering you've been a member here for a very long time, I've raised it for you. Simple eh? ;)
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