Post Font Size

Started by Paulsa, May 04, 2022, 04:23:22 PM

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Paulsa

The default post font size is too small for some people with poor vision or older ones.
It would be a courtesy to those who cannot see tiny font to increase it. The ability to change this in the Admin panel would make this a quick and useful option.

Steve

Except that you would be making the font too large for members that don't need it.
Autocorrect is my worst enema.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

These days browsers and operating systems have handy features that allow every user to set their own default fonts and zoom levels. I don't think the default install of SMF needs anything more really.
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Steve

Autocorrect is my worst enema.

Kindred

plus, if an individual admin wants to bump it for their own site, then a simple CSS modification is the easiest.

Adding a whole bunch of options into the admin UI that only 1 in 100 admins might use (or less) just makes the UI look crowded.
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Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

FrizzleFried

Would it be beneficial to put together a stickied post of CSS TWEAKS for 2.1.x which includes things like this... how to center the logo above... how to keep the top bar on screen during scroll... etc?

I know of at least 3 or 4 tweaks that would be perfect additions... and I am sure more come out they could be added?

Now,  PERSONALLY,  I've saved each of these tweaks locally because I found I was "searching" for them on here and thought to myself (durr... save `em as txt files!)... but I digress... a centralized depository for these kinds of CSS tweaks would probably help y'all a lot... you could simply point people to the post when they had these kinds of questions.

No?

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Slava
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Arantor

T&T really could do with some kind of index though.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

True, the index it has is not very well maintained.
Slava
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"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

How you can help SMF

Arantor

Honestly though, I'd actually be supportive if a more thorough accessibility kit came into core. Something that could stop animations, a desaturation filter, some kind of high contrast mode, something not only for text size but text spacing too. Maybe even alternative font choices for readability?

Widgets exist that you can hook in (e.g. Userway) but I think it'd be interesting to support the key functionality out of the box.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Something like that could be a good optional feature, or a mod package. But as long as it's just about font size, I find  ctrl+mouse wheel the easiest, fastest and most personal option that I don't see much reason to try and replace. 
Slava
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"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

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Arantor

That's just it, it's not really enough. It scales everything else up as well, and honestly the UI could do with a declutter in general, which would benefit everyone.

I would note the OP explicitly wanted options that weren't "just change zoom" and honestly I wonder how many people get left behind because those of us that are (for want of a better word) better-abled do others a disservice by saying "this is good enough for me, it should be good enough for everyone".

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Well, most browsers also have a built in setting for font size alone. Brave, Chrome and Edge for example all have 5 different text sizes built in.
Slava
Ukraini!


"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

How you can help SMF

digger

Quote from: Paulsa on May 04, 2022, 04:23:22 PMThe default post font size is too small for some people with poor vision or older ones.
It would be a courtesy to those who cannot see tiny font to increase it. The ability to change this in the Admin panel would make this a quick and useful option.
https://custom.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=1475

Steve

Quote from: Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen on May 05, 2022, 11:22:20 AMWell, most browsers also have a built in setting for font size alone. Brave, Chrome and Edge for example all have 5 different text sizes built in.
As does Firefox. It even goes further. Text size from 9 to 72 and all the fonts you could want available. You can even prevent pages from overriding your settings.
Autocorrect is my worst enema.

gevv

This is a big problem in my opinion, font size is small for everyone young and old. i edit css on every install, update

It would be nice if it was added to the Look and Layout settings.

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Antechinus

Quote from: gevv on May 06, 2022, 05:46:58 AMThis is a big problem in my opinion, font size is small for everyone young and old.
I assume I am not included in "everyone" then.

Steve

Nor I ...

Why bloat the software with features that very few will utilize when the above options are available?
Autocorrect is my worst enema.

Irisado

Quote from: gevv on May 06, 2022, 05:46:58 AMThis is a big problem in my opinion, font size is small for everyone young and old.

Have you really asked everyone who uses SMF?
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Arantor

Quote from: Steve on May 06, 2022, 07:57:52 AMNor I ...

Why bloat the software with features that very few will utilize when the above options are available?

And this is why I won't be participating in future SMF development. I have been concerned for years about the fallacious views on bloat but it's clear to me that the team will never come to a position I am comfortable with.

I do not consider "learn to use your browser" as an adequate replacement.

In any case how do you know very few would use it? Did you ask a statistically relevant sample including people with visual impairments?

Kindred

Quote from: Arantor on May 06, 2022, 08:15:16 AMIn any case how do you know very few would use it? Did you ask a statistically relevant sample including people with visual impairments?

of course not....   but neither did the OP or commenter use a statistically significant sample of people who would want it.

Everything so far as been individual or apocryphal commentary, with the exception of the post by gevv suggesting that "everyone" needs this.
 
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Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

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FrizzleFried

Obviously the man was being hyperbolic when he said "Everyone young and old" but the fact remains... for some... it is small.  For me,  personally,  it was small originally but I've gotten used to it. 

Frankly... a reasonable adjustment in the Look/Layout wouldn't be a bad thing IMHO.  Even just two settings... "version 2.1 default" and "version 2.0 default" would probably suffice.

That said... I admit that I subscribe more to Arantors way of thinking.  The way I see things is that I would rather have a feature available to me that I do not use than one not available to me that I really want.  While I do understand the attraction to not offer everything in the world + the kitchen sink,  sometimes a bit of a compromise CAN be a good thing...

Now... what I'd love to see is a set of "official SMF" mods released that offers things like this perhaps, since there seems to be opposition to including it in the official release.  Perhaps something released at the same time you release an update (for example).  That would be one way to add functionality (officially) but without including it in the base install... no?

I know that some of the folks who work on the base software also release mods.... but I do not believe any of them are "Official SMF Expansion" type mods... right (correct me if I am wrong)?



Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

There are some official mods, but you are right there aren't many and I agree things like this would make for perfect official add ons IMO. But that also needs someone to code them, maintain them and support them, and sometimes that can be a bit of a hindrance.
Slava
Ukraini!


"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

How you can help SMF

marcosbr


I increase the font/css since using 2.0.
90% of users asked for this!
All themes work fine!
No one else complained...
 
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Kindred

Quote from: FrizzleFried on May 06, 2022, 10:54:56 AMThat said... I admit that I subscribe more to Arantors way of thinking.  The way I see things is that I would rather have a feature available to me that I do not use than one not available to me that I really want.  While I do understand the attraction to not offer everything in the world + the kitchen sink,  sometimes a bit of a compromise CAN be a good thing...


the true irony of this statement is that Arantor is actually the main individual responsible for REMOVING many of the configuration options in 2.1  :D
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

FrizzleFried

I can only speak for what he's expressed here.

 8)


Arantor

If you think those two sets of things are equivalent, you really didn't (and don't) understand what I was trying to do at all.

Having 1000 options is worse than having no options; having 10 options is better than having 100 if they're the right options.

And even I conceded that some of the choices were wrong in hindsight, and I did something about that, which is more than I can say for some.

davo88

I vote for more control of fonts built right in to SMF.

The issue of having too many options can be overcome by better organisation of admin panels. Look at cPanel. It has a zillion options but they still manage to present a reasonably usable interface.

We want SMF to be popular and widely used. That means making it easy for admins to use, who can in turn make it easy for their forum members to use.
Typical forum end-users are not geeks. They barely know what the word "browser" refers to, let alone how to change the settings.

This forum is full of technically capable people. We are very different to the average forum user. We have to become more user oriented if we want to ensure SMF's longevity.

gevv

Post Font Size
Forum Width Setting
Smart Pagination

Useful features, must be included in the core. I don't think you put a big load on the core (i'm not sure i don't know php :) )

Developers are very strict  ;D  O:)
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Antechinus

Ok, before this gets over the top: essentially, this is simple. The theme is already responsive. If the break points are set in em rather than in px, making the theme equally responsive for varying base font sizes becomes automatic. The layout will change at appropriate places depending on the base font size selected by the user.

In fact, I consider this such a no-brainer that I did it in Elk alpha immediately after that project split from SMF. It has worked right from the start. It would have done in it SMF 2.1 too, if there hadn't been a split.

So, all this really needs is one option to change the base font size on the html tag, and break points set in em. Simple. :P.

Arantor

Quote from: Antechinus on May 06, 2022, 04:47:34 PMdepending on the base font size selected by the user.

You are assuming the user knows how to do this. I only learned that browsers even had multiple font sizes from this topic - and I've been doing this stuff for literal decades at this point.

Given also how many people don't seem to know that Ctrl+scroll (or Ctrl+plus/Ctrl-minus) does zoom, why are we assuming they know how to change their browser?

Quote from: Antechinus on May 06, 2022, 04:47:34 PMIf the break points are set in em rather than in px

There you go, first project for the next version of SMF? Btw if you're planning on using GitHub for contributing, 2FA is going to be a requirement in future. (GitHub is making it mandatory for contributors to projects starting sometime next year.)

Antechinus

Quote from: Arantor on May 06, 2022, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: Antechinus on May 06, 2022, 04:47:34 PMdepending on the base font size selected by the user.

You are assuming the user knows how to do this.
I was assuming that, if the option was included in Profile > Look and Layout, at least some small percentage of users might be capable of finding it and using it. :P

Obviously this is touchingly naive faith in human nature on my part. I'm sweet and innocent like that.

QuoteI only learned that browsers even had multiple font sizes from this topic - and I've been doing this stuff for literal decades at this point.
Lol.

Quote
Quote from: Antechinus on May 06, 2022, 04:47:34 PMIf the break points are set in em rather than in px
There you go, first project for the next version of SMF?
Why wait that long? Custom theme FTW.

QuoteBtw if you're planning on using GitHub...
Lol.

marcosbr

It could be an option. Don't we have Curve 2 Color Changer?
Why not Curve2 Font Changer?
It would be an admin option...
The fear of editing the CSS would end and he would choose the size he thinks best!
I never accepted this: 
 
font: 83.33%/150% "Segoe UI", "Helvetica Neue", "Nimbus Sans L", Arial,
 "Liberation Sans", sans-serif;
 color: #4d4d4d;
 display: flex;
 flex-direction: column;
 min height: 100vh;

   I see little, things of age... 83.33%?
 What would blue be if everyone only likes white?
A MOD is an "option" only use who wants or needs it!
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Antechinus

Ok, true story, because it is hilariously funny in this context.

I bought a smartphone late last year. First one I've ever owned. So, a couple of months ago I was coding something for myself, and found the default font-size in Chrome on Android was a touch small for my preference if I set the CSS of my custom page to 100%.

Think to myself "OK, take a look at Chrome settings", because it does have this link called "Settings" in its standard little menu and I kinda figured that, y'know, something called "Settings" might possibly allow me to adjust some settings. Because, y'know, things called "Settings" usually do that, even on bloody Windows desktop.

Lo and behold, I find that Chrome on Android has a lovely little slider that lets you adjust the base font size in 5% intervals. In that respect, it is much more advanced and customisable than the desktop version of Chrome (which is basically a browser for kindergarten).

Short version: don't be so goddamned helpless. :P

Steve

Autocorrect is my worst enema.

Antechinus

Well, very occasionally I'm innocent, and I really can be quite sweet too. :D
But I admit those are not necessarily my default settings.

Antechinus

Quote from: Antechinus on May 06, 2022, 04:47:34 PMIf the break points are set in em rather than in px, making the theme equally responsive for varying base font sizes becomes automatic. The layout will change at appropriate places depending on the base font size selected by the user.

In fact, I consider this such a no-brainer that I did it in Elk alpha immediately after that project split from SMF. It has worked right from the start. It would have done in it SMF 2.1 too, if there hadn't been a split.
Just noting that apparently MDN have been recommending this for some time. No idea how long (I thought of it myself yonks ago) but MDN is definitely in favour of it now.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media#accessibility_concerns

QuoteAccessibility concerns

To best accommodate people who adjust a site's text size, use ems when you need a <length> for your media queries.

Both em and px are valid units, but em works better if the user changes the browser text size.

So there ya go. It's not just Ant going mental about trivia again. :D

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