Liking resets screen reader's focus

Started by MegaBrutal, January 16, 2025, 07:15:15 PM

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MegaBrutal

Our vision impaired member reported that when he clicks on ,,Like" under a post on SMF 2.1.4, his screen reader's focus jumps back to the top of the page. I'm not sure what's the cause, probably the JavaScript that handles the like drops the focus. Honestly I have no experience with screen readers, I just hope some of you have, also if I find the cause I will share it.
Despite this.
I feel obligated to suggest.
Should you choose to create this world once more.
Another path would be better suited.


Doug Heffernan

Quote from: MegaBrutal on January 16, 2025, 07:15:15 PMOur vision impaired member reported that when he clicks on ,,Like" under a post on SMF 2.1.4, his screen reader's focus jumps back to the top of the page. I'm not sure what's the cause, probably the JavaScript that handles the like drops the focus. Honestly I have no experience with screen readers, I just hope some of you have, also if I find the cause I will share it.

I moved this here from the Bug Reports forum because this doesn't appear to be a bug.

That said, What browsers is the user in question using? Is this happening to a particular user btw or there have been other reports about it too?

Diego Andrés

Should be a bug under normal circumstances because it's an accessibility issue, but doubt 2.1.x ever claimed screen reader support.

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Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

When you click like, the actual text contents of the page change. I am not familiar with screen readers either, but I'm thinking how this is actually handled might depend on the reader as well.
Slava
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Antechinus

Quote from: Doug Heffernan on January 17, 2025, 08:17:43 AM
Quote from: MegaBrutal on January 16, 2025, 07:15:15 PMOur vision impaired member reported that when he clicks on ,,Like" under a post on SMF 2.1.4, his screen reader's focus jumps back to the top of the page. I'm not sure what's the cause, probably the JavaScript that handles the like drops the focus. Honestly I have no experience with screen readers, I just hope some of you have, also if I find the cause I will share it.

I moved this here from the Bug Reports forum because this doesn't appear to be a bug.
It is definitely a bug if you are making any claim to support accessibility.
SMF has traditionally made such a claim.


QuoteThat said, What browsers is the user in question using? Is this happening to a particular user btw or there have been other reports about it too?
Bear in mind it is quite possible that only one person on that site may be using a screen reader, so you can't necessarily expect a range of users to respond as if it were a common browser issue.

live627

The JavaScript event  probably isn't  firing. What screen   reader is this?

Sir Osis of Liver

When in Emor, do as the Snamors.
                              - D. Lister

MegaBrutal

Quote from: Doug Heffernan on January 17, 2025, 08:17:43 AMThat said, What browsers is the user in question using? Is this happening to a particular user btw or there have been other reports about it too?

I'm asking. Until he replies, I assume all of them – I mean, he's known to use multiple devices, smart phone and laptop. I guess if he would have experienced any difference, he would have noted.

Also asking the screen reader.


Quote from: Antechinus on January 17, 2025, 03:50:14 PMIt is definitely a bug if you are making any claim to support accessibility.
SMF has traditionally made such a claim.

Thing is, this guy has been using the forum for more than 10 years now, without any major complaints. On the other hand, he's constantly bashing the accessibility of Facebook, Google Drive, and other major services, where random updates tend to break screen reader functionality.

So whether it was a goal of SMF to be accessible or not, it kind of nailed it somehow. True that screen readers also aim to support generic sites, so I can't tell whether SMF is so great in accessibility or screen readers are so smart that it's able to navigate it, but I assume both.


Quote from: Antechinus on January 17, 2025, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: Doug Heffernan on January 17, 2025, 08:17:43 AMIs this happening to a particular user btw or there have been other reports about it too?
Bear in mind it is quite possible that only one person on that site may be using a screen reader, so you can't necessarily expect a range of users to respond as if it were a common browser issue.

Case in point. We only have one vision impaired member. Unfortunately, we don't have many users altogether, and considering the percentage of vision impaired people in society, it's not surprising that we don't have more.


Quote from: live627 on January 17, 2025, 06:50:15 PMThe JavaScript event  probably isn't  firing. What screen  reader is this?

I don't think so, because the like is otherwise registered successfully, and everyone else can like without issues. And I don't think he uses any peculiar browser, it's safe to guess it's one of the major ones.


Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on January 17, 2025, 08:24:26 PMSimple solution is to disable likes.

It is generally not nice in any support section to suggest that if you have a problem with a particular feature, then just go and disable the feature. Generally there is a reason why people enable or disable features.

I mean, Facebook has been sucking away our members for quite a long time now, and the few people who choose to join the forum after being socialized on Facebook, often lack some more interactibility – likes in particular have been requested for a long time.
Despite this.
I feel obligated to suggest.
Should you choose to create this world once more.
Another path would be better suited.


live627

Quote from: MegaBrutal on January 17, 2025, 10:30:30 PMThing is, this guy has been using the forum for more than 10 years now, without any major complaints. On the other hand, he's constantly bashing the accessibility of Facebook, Google Drive, and other major services, where random updates tend to break screen reader functionality.

So whether it was a goal of SMF to be accessible or not, it kind of nailed it somehow. True that screen readers also aim to support generic sites, so I can't tell whether SMF is so great in accessibility or screen readers are so smart that it's able to navigate it, but I assume both.

Main difference between SMF and those other sites is that SMF is somewhat generic with no client side rendering. It should be able to function without JS.

An aside: load MSN with JS turned off.

Sir Osis of Liver

Quote from: MegaBrutal on January 17, 2025, 10:30:30 PMIt is generally not nice in any support section to suggest that if you have a problem with a particular feature, then just go and disable the feature. Generally there is a reason why people enable or disable features.

Not a matter of being nice, it's a temporary solution to assist the member until the glitch can be resolved.

When in Emor, do as the Snamors.
                              - D. Lister

Antechinus

Quote from: MegaBrutal on January 17, 2025, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: Antechinus on January 17, 2025, 03:50:14 PMIt is definitely a bug if you are making any claim to support accessibility.
SMF has traditionally made such a claim.
Thing is, this guy has been using the forum for more than 10 years now, without any major complaints. On the other hand, he's constantly bashing the accessibility of Facebook, Google Drive, and other major services, where random updates tend to break screen reader functionality.

So whether it was a goal of SMF to be accessible or not, it kind of nailed it somehow. True that screen readers also aim to support generic sites, so I can't tell whether SMF is so great in accessibility or screen readers are so smart that it's able to navigate it, but I assume both.
Yes, it was definitely a goal. What's more, it's a legal requirement for a lot of organisations if they want to use SMF. Please feel free to report any a11y issues your members find. :)

shawnb61

I think the bigger question here is whether anybody has bothered to attempt to reproduce the issue with an actual screen reader, rather than making assumptions one way or another.

I'd be surprised if this actually were happening, as I am pretty sure the likes functionality is done via ajax calls & the screen is not refreshed. 

OTOH, as @live627 points out above, if JS is disabled, this cannot happen, so the whole screen is refreshed.  I don't think there's anything SMF can do about that. 

So...  Does the user have JS disabled?  That would explain it.  If so, they should re-enable it - that's the only real solution I see that SMF can offer. 

If the user does NOT have JS disabled, I'd suggest someone try to reproduce with an actual screen reader.
A question worth asking is born in experience & driven by necessity. - Fripp

MegaBrutal

The guy did some tests with other browsers and screen readers: he found that the problem seems to be specific to the JAWS 2025 screen reader. He didn't encounter the same problem with other screen readers (still JAWS is the one he prefers for other reasons).

I think I've hit a wall here – normally I'm someone who tries to reproduce problems, but I'm really not familiar with screen readers, moreover this one doesn't even run on my Ubuntu operating system. So I can't find out what does trip this particular screen reader off and how would it be possible to hint the reader to not do this.

Also because it is reader specific, it's possible that it's a bug with the reader software, not with SMF itself, thus instead the problem should be reported to the JAWS developers. However in that case I have no idea how to articulate the problem towards them, as probably they'd need more info than ,,liking on SMF forums resets the focus" – but the irony is that it's about the same amount of info we could provide here for you guys.
Despite this.
I feel obligated to suggest.
Should you choose to create this world once more.
Another path would be better suited.


shawnb61

I would tell them that the field's contents are updated by ajax, without a screen refresh.

And that it works fine using their competitors' products.  Until fixed, you'll direct your users there.

Maybe set them up with a test account.
A question worth asking is born in experience & driven by necessity. - Fripp

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