An SMF CMS?

[Trekkie101]

Sorry if this sounded harsh - I am just so tired of everyone complaining about SMF being the wrong and all the CMS's out there being "right".

I agree with that last statement, I feel SMF is the power, nothing compares to a forum.

[supreme-Web]

well i think smf is great and a cms for it would be great all those who think smf is not good are crazy. but thats just my thought.

and about the themes. you would not ave too make that all themes that for smf are out now also work with the csm that should be impossible just make new themes and improve the otheres so they work with the cms too.

[[Unknown]]

Zhoushi, I'm sorry you don't feel SMF is "good enough".  And, you may not like any CMS we might make... that's fine.

But some will.  And some don't feel Invision is "good enough".  Some don't agree with you.  And some don't agree that PHP-Nuke is "good enough" even... some want something more, or something different.

Can't please everyone, Zhoushi, you're right.  We can't, but neither can anyone else.

-[Unknown]

[Borys Pomianek]

Actually i have exp. in creating and managing websites. If you want my feed back about what options it should have i can help.

In short the most important thing is to not create another phpnuke wich sucks actually ;/.
Many modules that you wont use and such.

And i think that the best would be to create it as a cgi in c++ or create something similar like in php but in asp and not in php.
this way you can create a full, opensource or not ( you dont have to make it opensource ! = less hack atemps, more safety, a lot more commercial value ) program.
I realy dint like the template thing in phpnuke and such. It was very limited !.

The app should use a databes ofcourse and using it generate static html files.

We all know that serch engines have problems with dynamic websites.

I think that it should be at the same time for newbie and for experienced coder. Its not that hard to make.
The best thing would be something that works like a dll that you just add to youre website and call the functions that are inside.
Ofcourse that would work diferent but with the same idea.

a big documentation would be need but that way you would be able to create olmost anything.

For instance:

You create a html file whatever way you like, you want to display news in a table, so you add the library or how you call it in the website root folder, open the documentation, open the part with examples and find there and example of creating news.
And you read something like this:

"to create simple news you need to use functions: n.n.n....n ( names of functions and at the same time links to the part in function list where the function is described along with all the parameters you cans end to it and such )
call it there and there and place this and this where you want the return data to apear...
here is the code:
display_article(last,1,news...)
display_link(68,readall...)
display_link(69,comment...)
.....
<td class="bleble"...>
<news>
<br><....><readall></....>
<comment>
</td>
...."

so you add a similar code, in the documentation it says that for functions display_article the first var is the number of the article and the available options is: 1,2,3......,first,last...... The second var is the number of the category that article is in ( for instance you create a category caled news where you keep articles that will be the news ). The third var is the name of the tag you want to use to show the place where the return data should apear. etsetera etsetera and lots of other vars that can be used, ofcourse you dont have to use all of them, thsoe that arent sent are 0, the body of the functions has a very simple if(....) or a loop.

And ofourse there would be many funtions, the main idea of this is istead of creating mods, modules or any other ******y thing you can just create an additional function that wont mess the other things.
For coders there would be the code to write to call the functions, send them anythig and add theyre own and for newbies a gui that would generate the code.
The way i presetned would let to use one function, in this example display_article for many thigns, all depends on the "configuration", it can have lots of possible vars, like how much chars should be displayed and such. All the text on website could be shown using this function ! that would be very easy to use. creating categories using the gui would be easy too !.
the function(args) could be stored in an external file.
using a gui you would be able to first create all the tags you would need and configure them to show the right type of data and then just add them in youre html file.

No templates, no mods no anything and very easy to use.

I think it would be easy to write too.

I can help you with some ideas if you want but i dont have exp in programing using php so i cant create real code, sory.
If you would create this kind of app I would buy it for sure.
you then would be able to create thing like: free download, no source code. paid license, source code. and such

CMS is all about displaying content and editing it but the main thing is how much you can bend the out-of-the-box options to your needs.
I can say that phpnuke and olmost all ( 80 % ) of the cms'es out there that you can use for free just suck !
All the portals look the same and creating something that looks difrent and is just what you need is same or more work than writing all the things your self.
And olmost all of it is in php. php is not bad but its not a thing for commercial use and for really mature non commercial.
basically its just too bugy, not safe and slow.

SMF forum is a really cool app, its a lot more mature than phpbb. Create a cms similar to the smf forum is not a bad idea but i my self would rather like to see something similar to the thing i described above. If i can compare I would like something like DirectX with a wraper instead of a quake level editor. Yee sure why use directX and a graphic enginge dll when you can just use a level editor for quake, the answer is becouse a quake level editor can do only things it was designed to, create bsp levels for quake ( or other game that supports the file format ), you can do lots of stuff with it but still they will all look similar or the same, with directX and for example truevision dll you can create anything from 3d desktops to games simulating cooking egs.
And lets be honest, newbies does not create proffesional portals, if someone does not know how to program, atleast the basics there is little chance he or she will create anything practicall and mature no matter what the software is.

Ok its the middle of the night and iam tired, sory for the mistakes and for the long post.

BP

[[Unknown]]

And i think that the best would be to create it as a cgi in c++

I disagree.

or create something similar like in php but in asp and not in php.

I strongly disagree.  ASP is not nearly powerful enough, and ASP.NET has quite a few flaws (so does PHP, but different ones.)  Regardless, I think we're planning to use PHP - and I know you won't like this from your post - primarily MySQL as well.

this way you can create a full, opensource or not ( you dont have to make it opensource ! = less hack atemps, more safety, a lot more commercial value ) program.

I strongly strongly disagree.  Very very strongly.

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=16971.msg140624#msg140624

<td class="bleble"...>
<news>
<br><....><readall></....>
<comment>
</td>
...."

Namespacing would be the only way to do that, as ASP.NET does it.  It's not perfect but it has its benefits.

No templates, no mods no anything and very easy to use.

I don't agree with that even being possible, I think you and I have very different definitions of what a "template" is.

you then would be able to create thing like: free download, no source code. paid license, source code. and such

I'm sorry, but frankly that doesn't interest me at all.  See the link I posted above.  Making it so you have to pay to see the source code basically loses all of the benefits of open source, which you probably don't believe/agree exist.

And olmost all of it is in php. php is not bad but its not a thing for commercial use and for really mature non commercial.

Does that mean I have to throw the several thousand dollars I've made with PHP scripting out the window.  Crying shame, no one ever told me I couldn't make money with it... I guess I'll have to stop?

Sorry, I just don't like ti when people bash open source, without even giving it credit for its benefits.  That's just ignorance.  I don't care if you don't like open source... but you, my good sir, don't even understand it.

-[Unknown]

[Borys Pomianek]

I think you misuderstood my post.
I was talking about what I would like, not whats best.

My opinion php is that its not a great language, I dont like it but that dosent mean iam saing that you cant use it.

Iam not crytic about opensource, i like opensource and yes i understand it, again you misuderstood my post.
Iam not cryticysing anything iam describing an idea.
making something not opensource is a posibility, I dont recommend it, iam just teling that its a posibility.
You dont have that possibility when you use php.

I would be happy to see evrything opensource, that would be cool but that dosent mean evrything has to be opensource. If there is a need go for it. I my self dosent see any need in making for instance Windows open source but having a possibility is olways better than having only one way to go for.

you can make money out of c-script too but that dosent meen its as good as c++

and not only php can use mysql.

My idea is in my opinion fresh and something i would like to see.
As i wrote making a cms from smf or something similar is not a bad idea, it will be better than phpnuke so go for it if that is what you want.
I dint write "great idea" becouse that will be just another cms with the same basic ideas.
I wanted to tell that it would be nice to get something new and fresh and the best thing i think to do would be to create a library instead of ready website that you can "modify".

Ofcourse there is nothing wierd in you being mad becouse i sad that php is not good, you use it for some reason so its good for you. Bad for me, good for you and i think we can agree to disagree.

And ofcourse its posible to create an app that you dont have to make mods for, but that is all about what we call a mod.
To me a mod is something that hacks an app, i was talking about writing aditional functions and preparing the whole app for easy function adding.
Then just create instances of those functions, many instanes with difrent args using a gui or coding by hand in a separate file and then use something like <? include....?>  in the html file.

Then when all that is ready you open other app that is used for editing and adding content, it reads the file that you created and basing on that create something like html forms wich you use to add records to the database.

That is what I would like to see. If you create something 99% diferent, it may be as good, better, or worse depends. I just dont see any point in creating another php-nuke.

And man, dont take it so personaly i just want to give some feedback if you dont want me to write it just tell me before i waste more time.

BP

[Jerry]

I believe SMF is just fine as a forum, and having a CMS for it is just a nice add on. I personally don't like Mambo, phpNuke, postNuke, or anyother CMS like them . I believe they are over packed with junk/'add ons'. They come with many features that are not needed imo. If SM makes a CMS it needs to be something basic, that can be added on to instead of something that is already over filled with features.

[Trekkie101]

I believe SMF is just fine as a forum, and having a CMS for it is just a nice add on. I personally don't like Mambo, phpNuke, postNuke, or anyother CMS like them . I believe they are over packed with junk/'add ons'. They come with many features that are not needed imo. If SM makes a CMS it needs to be something basic, that can be added on to instead of something that is already over filled with features.

I liked the look of Jerrys little portal/type thing, it looked nice and simple. Didnt o0ver crownd you with junk, from what I understand it worked with themes and well although it was done with SSI maybe a admin panel and a bit more bulk to it, it would be rather nice.

Yes, thats why I dont use a portal right now Jerry, there all too overcrowded and loaded with things like Clocks, you dont really need a clock, all OSes can tell the time.

A nice thing like you had with maybe an admin area to edit some front page stuff and such and maybe some more advanced features like a downloads area would be cool.

[supreme-Web]

well what i really like too have is something like phpnuke but then leave all that standard features. Make all features mods so as people want a download section the can download the download section mod. that would be great also it must be more editeble then phpnuke. as you do all this it will be one off the best cms in mine opinion.

[ryanbsoftware]

i have to disagree, i want something with tons of features, if i don't use 1, then as ong as i can disable it thats ok.  like mkportal, if i am not going to use say the reviews module, i just disable it and isn't a link to something i don't use.

[Trekkie101]

i have to disagree, i want something with tons of features, if i don't use 1, then as ong as i can disable it thats ok. like mkportal, if i am not going to use say the reviews module, i just disable it and isn't a link to something i don't use.

bloat and features are different Ryan 

SMf has loads of features but none are bloat, all have a good solid purpose.

[ryanbsoftware]

i have to disagree, i want something with tons of features, if i don't use 1, then as ong as i can disable it thats ok. like mkportal, if i am not going to use say the reviews module, i just disable it and isn't a link to something i don't use.

bloat and features are different Ryan 

SMf has loads of features but none are bloat, all have a good solid purpose.

well i know i said features not bloat, kinda like smf showing the username on hover would be bloat, if included, as its not needed, as long as most people would use it its a feature not bloat, something like the reviews modle in mkportal is nice but say if i was one to not use it its nice that i can turn it off.

[nokonium]

What I am looking for in a portal is something that looks like a website with an integrated forum, gallery etc, with ALL blocks/boxes/modules selectable. For the main index page I would not want all the stats and such that you do not seem to be able to loose. Some peeps do want them, so make a basic shell with modules that can downloaded if wanted and appear L, R, or center if required.

[supreme-Web]

that is what i sayd above too just mkae something that is good editeble too the users wants and don't have too many standeardt features just make many mods so everybody can download what they want and not ahve things on there site waht they don't need

[ryanbsoftware]

i personally would prefer more standard features that can be easily disabled if the user isn't going to use them, but i would imagine that the smp or smcms, whatever it will be called will have the legendary package manager for easy installation.

[supreme-Web]

yes a package manager is a really need

[Robert Frost]

an equal blend of xoops and smf would be delicious

[autodafey]

I currently use xoops on several sites and am experimenting with creating cross-site single user database authentication now.  I think it would be interesting to be able to customize things like user databases.  The element of single-sign on that was mentioned earlier is a must for the forum and CMS, but I think it would be great to take it to the next level by being able to repoint perhaps all of the versions of the CMS to a unified user database even when all of the other modules use a single separate database for their configurations.

I really like the idea of a CMS in the simple machines family.  I would be right up front to install and test it out.  I think that block functionality is a key component of what makes CMS management easy.  Modulization for mods and updates as well as theme installation similar to what SMF does with their packages is great (I've never really understood why themes and packages should be treated differently).  Keep us posted on this development and let us know what is needed.

[Jerry]

i personally would prefer more standard features that can be easily disabled if the user isn't going to use them, but i would imagine that the smp or smcms, whatever it will be called will have the legendary package manager for easy installation.

Having millions of standard features that you can 'disable' is what I mean by large... Phpnule comes with millions of features and is 10mb. After you get rid of all the languages (very time consuming) you have about 6mb, then if you get rid of all the featues you are not using it may go down to 5mb, but even then it is still bloated... Having a few features and many add ons you can download would be a good thing imo.

[Daevien]

I agree with Jerry

Have a basic, functional CMS with whatever the team / community defines as the bare minimum. Then have a module system where you can add in things like downloads, banners, super neat feature of the month, etc. Not everyone has the same needs or ideas for their site.

You could then offer a basic / minimal download package and then one with all of the extra mods in the same package.

Hmm, maybe during the install have the core components installed and then the most commonly used extra ones as an option that could be installed or not if they were detected in the directory?